Make Wonder Woman Great Again! Just like her new movie!

[Ryu Hayabusa]

You can hate her design from a lore standpoint, that is the way it is and that design is not changing regardless because that is what NRS wanted. But your definition of viability cannot be exclusively compared to tournament placings especially when representation plays a part.

WoWo is viable but her issue is that not only does she have a steep learning curve (all on your neutral game) but she exposes player weaknesses really badly. If you don't have the patience, reads, knowledge and spacing game down she has nothing to hide behind. In similar fashion she can destroy others who showcase those same traits.

Finally with tiers being decided by MUs maybe you should list who you think she loses to/who you struggle with. That way a discussion can take place on how good/bad she actually is instead on focusing on tools.

Go to WoWo matchup thread, I have stated my opinion on her winning and losing matchups.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

If not being in top 16 means a character deserves being complained about in forum then there must be a whole lot of complaining going on in a bunch of the character forums.

It's at best representative of a handful of characters that are the top favored among the best players in the world during Viennality. That's not terribly useful information in the grand scheme of things. Tier list in general aren't all that useful. They are only valid for the handful of people able to play at "the highest level" and those people don't need the stupid lists because they are the ones making and defining them.

How good a character is in relation to other characters mutates as you slide up and down the player skill level. A character that is high tier at 16 very well could be utter, inaccessible trash for mid or low level players and vice versa.

As an example, I put about 100 hours into Storm Queen D'Vorah, and one day I said to myself "I can't do bug cancels. I can't play this character." So I switched to Venomous instead; going from the "best" variation to the "worst" variation. I didn't listen to people telling me I shouldn't, and that SQ was the only way to go, but I was a much better Venomous player than I ever was or would have been a Storm Queen. It didn't matter that SQ had more potential if it was locked behind a skill gap I was incapable of crossing. I couldn't do what Honeybee and Tekken Master could, and at some point it would have been delusional to keep trying. Every other D'Vorah I met did keep trying, and I think I only lost to one of them who also bodied me with a bunch of other characters. (For the record this is not me calling SQ top tier, is just a relational example.)

Deadshot may not be turning out to winning tournaments, but that doesn't mean he isn't a nightmare at mash tier where people don't have the slightest clue what to do about extreme zoning.

Playing a top tier character doesn't guarantee anything if you aren't also top tier, and when it comes to this tier mutation WoWo probably isn't good at low skill levels since she requires applying some higher level play philosophies. Once you get to the mid-high level she probably starts to come into her own and ends up being pretty good. Does that make her top 8 at a major good? Does she really need to be? Does any character deserve to be that good over the others? No.

Unless you have some need for her to be top 5 so you can watch her on stream, her being high, mid, or low at a tournament level isn't meaningful to either of us.

So we went from why WoWo isn't top 10 like some people pretend on this forum to why does it matter wether she is in top 16 or not? Lol.


Tournament placing is the best way to judge wether a character is top 10 or not because competitors go with the character they consider best that ll allow them to win some cash.

 

[Tiger Wong]

So we went from why WoWo isn't top 10 like some people pretend on this forum to why does it matter wether she is in top 16 or not? Lol.


Tournament placing is the best way to judge wether a character is top 10 or not because competitors go with the character they consider best that ll allow them to win some cash.

@AK XEN0M0RPH made top 8 at Dreamhack, Finished 5th overall?

Still not top 10, or....?

Wait..... is this how we judge if a character is viable too? I thought the way to judge that is if they can zone or had a move to get in close.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Go to WoWo matchup thread, I have stated my opinion on her winning and losing matchups.

IMO she wins against canary, cheetah, bane, grodd.

Even with Beetle, Flash, Scarecrow and Robin.


Loses to pretty much everyone. Deadshot, Firestorm, Cyborg and batman being her toughest matchups.

Do you still stand by that? That she loses to 3/4 of the cast?

 

[Gooberking]

So we went from why WoWo isn't top 10 like some people pretend on this forum to why does it matter wether she is in top 16 or not? Lol.


Tournament placing is the best way to judge wether a character is top 10 or not because competitors go with the character they consider best that ll allow them to win some cash.

No. We went from don't people want her to be viable, OMG she didn't make top 16 the first tournament after a patch so she isn't top ten why can't she be top ten when she should be top ten?

To

She has no claim of right to be top tier and btw tiers are aren't real anyway so what's the big deal?

I think that is a better nutshelling of my involvement.

 

[Marlow]

then there must be a whole lot of complaining going on in a bunch of the character forums

Oh there is. Lordy, there is.

 

[JDE]

Oh there is. Lordy, there is.

This thread is pretty bad considering the amount of downplay that Wonder Woman gets, but the Supergirl community threads have been way worse because you had a whole group of players claiming that she was bad against another hand full of players who thought she was decent but needed 1 to 2 changes to make her better then against players who either hated her in general (lore) or players who hated fighting her because they had no idea how to fight her (& still don't). So they would claim that she was good. I was one of the few who said that she was decent but needed 1 or 2 changes that would make her better without her being stupid. People would come trolling our threads too & our discussions would go to shit. Plus, we've had people come from out of nowhere getting into fights in the threads completely derailing topics. Joker's, Captain Cold's, Cheetah's, they've been bad too.

So while this thread may be considered bad due to downplay or complaints about her, the other threads have been much worse. This one imo is actually fairly constructive. I will say that from what I've seen, most of the discussions have been how to fix legitimately Wonder Woman's problems through changes, & it hasn't gotten completely toxic. The problem is that some of the stuff that was posted, they're basically wanting a completely new "Injustice 2" game you might as well say, wanting a completely character overhaul. Some are wanting an Injustice 1 Wonder Woman (understandably so), but it's Injustice 2. The trait was put into her gameplay. So even though I posted about it before talking about why I dislike it, I know I have to find a way to use it. Nothing that you can do except make it work. Just like her general buttons. I said that I wished she had normals that moved her forward to play footsies & whiff punish with.

Also (@TheGabStandard & @Gooberking you guys can answer too others as well), how often do you guys use b23 in neutral? I've been trying to use it a lot, but I'd like to get y'all's opinions because when I watch people play her, only a select few believe in doing it.

 

[LEGI0N47]

This thread is pretty bad considering the amount of downplay that Wonder Woman gets, but the Supergirl community threads have been way worse because you had a whole group of players claiming that she was bad against another hand full of players who thought she was decent but needed 1 to 2 changes to make her better then against players who either hated her in general (lore) or players who hated fighting her because they had no idea how to fight her (& still don't). So they would claim that she was good. I was one of the few who said that she was decent but needed 1 or 2 changes that would make her better without her being stupid. People would come trolling our threads too & our discussions would go to completely shit. Plus, we've had people come from out of nowhere getting into fights in the threads completely derailing topics. Joker's, Captain Cold's, Cheetah's, they've been bad too.

So while this thread may be considered bad due to downplay or complaints about her, the other threads have been much worse. I will say that from what I've seen, most of the discussions have been how to fix legitimately Wonder Woman's problems through changes, & it hasn't gotten completely toxic. The problem is that some of the stuff that was posted, they're basically wanting a completely new "Injustice 2" game you might as well say, wanting a completely character overhaul. Some are wanting an Injustice 1 Wonder Woman (understandably so), but it's Injustice 2. The trait was put into her gameplay. So even though I posted about it before talking about why I dislike it, I know I have to find a way to use it. Nothing that you can do except make it work. Just like her general buttons. I said that I wished she had normals that moved her forward to play footsies & whiff punish with.

Also (@TheGabStandard & @Gooberking you guys can answer too others as well), how often do you guys use b23 in neutral? I've been trying to use it a lot, but I'd like to get y'all's opinions because when I watch people play her, only a select few believe in doing it.

Dude I don't think a lot of these people are downplaying. Most of them are legit mad at the char design. The reasons are many. From the disparity from her Inj1 model, to lore, play style, normals, to her just not fitting them as a player. It's cyclic too. Dies down for a bit, then comes back. Now we're on major results lul. But yeah at least we don't have all the bums the SG boards do claiming she literally is the god among us followed by people calling her a shitter.

To answer your question I still do not use B23. I have the muscle memory of never using it and trying to hit confirm B2 instead. But every time I see it talked about I tell myself I'm going to use it a bit to try it out. You say you've been trying to use it a lot. Has anyone called you on it and armor B3'd you? Just curious.

 

[Skedar70]

Wonder woman is balanced.

Not being in top 8 or 16 doesn't mean she is trash o low tier it just means she doesn't have good representation because the best players choose other characters.

Most people believe that characters picked up by top tournaments placers are absolutely based on tier whoring.

There is one variable that people never consider in tournament placings. "Player preferences or tastes". Some times a character doesn't get picked up not because he sucks but because people don't like or don't have fun using them so they use other characters.

Clear example: Captain Cold. Considered by many low tier due to no proper tournament representation and due to this no good footage of him around to analyse. Then comes Sonicfox and destroys everybody with him.

Another example: Honeybees Flash. Everybody thought he was low tier, had no tournament representation and yet here comes a good player and proves everybody that he is yet viable, takes 2nd at EVO.

 

[JDE]

Dude I don't think a lot of these people are downplaying. Most of them are legit mad at the char design. The reasons are many. From the disparity from her Inj1 model, to lore, play style, normals, to her just not fitting them as a player. It's cyclic too. Dies down for a bit, then comes back. Now we're on major results lul. But yeah at least we don't have all the bums the SG boards do claiming she literally is the god among us followed by people calling her a shitter.

To answer your question I still do not use B23. I have the muscle memory of never using it and trying to hit confirm B2 instead. But every time I see it talked about I tell myself I'm going to use it a bit to try it out. You say you've been trying to use it a lot. Has anyone called you on it and armor B3'd you? Just curious.

I said it was understandable, but at the same time, I was saying she's not as bad as people make her out to be. I personally thought she was even more fun in the 1st one, too. Granted I was still relatively new to the community.

And several people yes. It forces me to switch up to shield tossing or shield bashing forward

 

[TheGabStandard]

This thread is pretty bad considering the amount of downplay that Wonder Woman gets, but the Supergirl community threads have been way worse because you had a whole group of players claiming that she was bad against another hand full of players who thought she was decent but needed 1 to 2 changes to make her better then against players who either hated her in general (lore) or players who hated fighting her because they had no idea how to fight her (& still don't). So they would claim that she was good. I was one of the few who said that she was decent but needed 1 or 2 changes that would make her better without her being stupid. People would come trolling our threads too & our discussions would go to shit. Plus, we've had people come from out of nowhere getting into fights in the threads completely derailing topics. Joker's, Captain Cold's, Cheetah's, they've been bad too.

So while this thread may be considered bad due to downplay or complaints about her, the other threads have been much worse. This one imo is actually fairly constructive. I will say that from what I've seen, most of the discussions have been how to fix legitimately Wonder Woman's problems through changes, & it hasn't gotten completely toxic. The problem is that some of the stuff that was posted, they're basically wanting a completely new "Injustice 2" game you might as well say, wanting a completely character overhaul. Some are wanting an Injustice 1 Wonder Woman (understandably so), but it's Injustice 2. The trait was put into her gameplay. So even though I posted about it before talking about why I dislike it, I know I have to find a way to use it. Nothing that you can do except make it work. Just like her general buttons. I said that I wished she had normals that moved her forward to play footsies & whiff punish with.

Also (@TheGabStandard & @Gooberking you guys can answer too others as well), how often do you guys use b23 in neutral? I've been trying to use it a lot, but I'd like to get y'all's opinions because when I watch people play her, only a select few believe in doing it.

I use it fairly often, maybe once every two games as a test just to see if my opponent knows about it. If it gets blown up then I stop using it

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Do you still stand by that? That she loses to 3/4 of the cast?

Characters who got nerfed might not be as effective as they were before.

The buffs she got didn't change her matchups.

she might do better against some characters because they got nerfed which indirectly made her strong but her problems are still the same.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

No. We went from don't people want her to be viable, OMG she didn't make top 16 the first tournament after a patch so she isn't top ten why can't she be top ten when she should be top ten?

To

She has no claim of right to be top tier and btw tiers are aren't real anyway so what's the big deal?

I think that is a better nutshelling of my involvement.

Seriously is this why you are here trying to counter signal me?

Sorry I refuse to pretend that WoWo is some kind of viable character who doesn't have infinite holes in her game that ll make any sane person suffer from trypophobia.


On top of all problems his character has The overall design of game doesn't favor her play style.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

Hi, OP here, #MakeWonderWomanGreatAgain and I can say after this patch she is still very meh.

For me to stick with her, for her to be worth using, she still requires a non random trait, air dash to be part of her base set, and one at least SLIGHTLY forward moving attack/combo.

This would make me happy and i don't think in the game now it would make her OP or ridiculous. But actually worth it.

 

[shyndoa]

Bracelet buff + parry have some crazy damage. Like 70-80%. It will be cheap af if you can choose her buff trait. Same for her damage reduce buff.

Air dash won't change too. Her air dash is pretty weak comparered to supes family. But why not. Just for the mobility. But wowo has already great mobilities.

Advancing string... THIS ! This is how you know how some wowo's players don't understand her gameplay in inj2. She's scary af when you see you can't approach her and when you're in the corner against her.

Just make her Shield Toss fullscreen and a better recovery haha

 

[TheGabStandard]

Characters who got nerfed might not be as effective as they were before.

The buffs she got didn't change her matchups.

she might do better against some characters because they got nerfed which indirectly made her strong but her problems are still the same.

Will just have to agree to disagree.

Hi, OP here, #MakeWonderWomanGreatAgain and I can say after this patch she is still very meh.

For me to stick with her, for her to be worth using, she still requires a non random trait, air dash to be part of her base set, and one at least SLIGHTLY forward moving attack/combo.

This would make me happy and i don't think in the game now it would make her OP or ridiculous. But actually worth it.

I don't see trait ever becoming non-random mainly because of how the gear abilities were designed. Air dash, I won't say no but again since it is built into trait I don't see it ever becoming part of the base moveset. But from what I see from your list is it seems that you are attempting to make WoWo a more offensive character when her moveset shows that she is not built that way. Regardless of design, buffs and nerfs should result on assisting the character design and gameplan, not changing it into something different.

Bracelet buff + parry have some crazy damage. Like 70-80%. It will be cheap af if you can choose her buff trait. Same for her damage reduce buff.

Air dash won't change too. Her air dash is pretty weak comparered to supes family. But why not. Just for the mobility. But wowo has already great mobilities.

Advancing string... THIS ! This is how you know how some wowo's players don't understand her gameplay in inj2. She's scary af when you see you can't approach her and when you're in the corner against her.

I think the advancing string point is less lack of understanding of how she plays but more not wanting to accept it. I will admit it is a major adjustment going from a offensive powerhouse in Inj1 to the same character becoming a defensive, space controlling one. Simply put, the character doesn't fit a lot of people's playstyles and they would prefer to change the character to suit them (with their own reasons) rather than adapting or moving on.

 

[colby4898]

The only thing I would change is to make b113 launch so shes has a good meterless punisher.

 

[TheGabStandard]

The only thing I would change is to make b113 launch so shes has a good meterless punisher.

i assume you mean B112?

 

[colby4898]

i assume you mean B112?

Yes

 

[Kiko]

I agree with what's been said in this thread as well... WW (as seen today) just doesn't have too much depth as a character. Everyone loves saying she's got this cool neutral that people need to learn but... so do many of the other characters. She doesn't really have too much going for her outside of trait (80% damage, damage reduction, and projectile priority) but the rest of her kit is lackluster.

I don't think she's terrible, but I don't think she's as great as many make her seem. She's just your average, run of the mill, good at nothing, character.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I agree with what's been said in this thread as well... WW (as seen today) just doesn't have too much depth as a character. Everyone loves saying she's got this cool neutral that people need to learn but... so do many of the other characters. She doesn't really have too much going for her outside of trait (80% damage, damage reduction, and projectile priority) but the rest of her kit is lackluster.

I don't think she's terrible, but I don't think she's as great as many make her seem. She's just your average, run of the mill, good at nothing, character.

she still whoops every brawler though

 

[Yoaks]

I agree with what's been said in this thread as well... WW (as seen today) just doesn't have too much depth as a character. Everyone loves saying she's got this cool neutral that people need to learn but... so do many of the other characters. She doesn't really have too much going for her outside of trait (80% damage, damage reduction, and projectile priority) but the rest of her kit is lackluster.

I don't think she's terrible, but I don't think she's as great as many make her seem. She's just your average, run of the mill, good at nothing, character.

Good at nothing? She hits harder then most characters with just a bar.

Top tier anti airs and air to airs.

Great normals and specials that control space.

I can't think of any other character that has both an amazing forward and back walkspeed in this game like WW. Harley has a better backwalk and CW has a better forward walkspeed but neither have both like WW. Lantern might be the only one that has as good of a walkspeed as WW with both forward and back. I could be wrong though.

Her midscreen neutral is sooo so good. Shes one of the best characters in the game at controlling 3/4's to 2/4's of the screen.

 

[Stanlos]

Good at nothing? She hits harder then most characters with just a bar.

Top tier anti airs and air to airs.

Great normals and specials that control space.

I can't think of any other character that has both an amazing forward and back walkspeed in this game like WW. Harley has a better backwalk and CW has a better forward walkspeed but neither have both like WW. Lantern might be the only one that has as good of a walkspeed as WW with both forward and back. I could be wrong though.

Her midscreen neutral is sooo so good. Shes one of the best characters in the game at controlling 3/4's to 2/4's of the screen.

I keep reading about WW controlling space and it makes me think I am WW-ing all wrong in Ranked. I find myself full screen inching forward and taking projectile fire (I feel like if Red Hood or Starfire are picked I might as well switch over to Netflix). Is it possible to SharePlay and watch your matches?

 

[Kiko]

Good at nothing? She hits harder then most characters with just a bar.

Top tier anti airs and air to airs.

Great normals and specials that control space.

I can't think of any other character that has both an amazing forward and back walkspeed in this game like WW. Harley has a better backwalk and CW has a better forward walkspeed but neither have both like WW. Lantern might be the only one that has as good of a walkspeed as WW with both forward and back. I could be wrong though.

Her midscreen neutral is sooo so good. Shes one of the best characters in the game at controlling 3/4's to 2/4's of the screen.

Honestly feels like this is just fluff and opinions. The walkspeed is something tangible we can talk about but the rest a lot of what you said can literally be said about specific other people of the cast. I can make examples for you but I think the information is readily out there.

 

[Stanlos]

I keep reading about WW controlling space and it makes me think I am WW-ing all wrong in Ranked. I find myself full screen inching forward and taking projectile fire (I feel like if Red Hood or Starfire are picked I might as well switch over to Netflix). Is it possible to SharePlay and watch your matches?

Arrrgh! This got mangled! I am talking about versus heavy zoners lime Deadshot, Red Hood and the developing Starfire. At first she wasn't much of a problem but now after I work my way in I am finding she has weird low and mid teleporting attacks that let her reach me even though it looks like she can't. I end up eating a combo and getting pushed out to enjoy more zoning