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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
No more discharge combos. Unless the timing is even tighter?
There was a note about how discharge now has the same reaction on hit as in the air. Pre-patch, discharge was -5 on hit on the ground but +15 on hit when the opponent was in a juggle state. This +15 on hit is apparently like +3 to +5 on hit now according to some people in the Raiden discord. Shame we lost the swaggy combos, but I think it's for the best as Raiden wpuld have been able to do like 30-35% combos into a free mixup post-patc if Discharge was still +15. Basically, the Discharge restand is now in line with other characters' restands.
 

ValeDJ

Noob
There was a note about how discharge now has the same reaction on hit as in the air. Pre-patch, discharge was -5 on hit on the ground but +15 on hit when the opponent was in a juggle state. This +15 on hit is apparently like +3 to +5 on hit now according to some people in the Raiden discord. Shame we lost the swaggy combos, but I think it's for the best as Raiden wpuld have been able to do like 30-35% combos into a free mixup post-patc if Discharge was still +15. Basically, the Discharge restand is now in line with other characters' restands.
Thanks for the frames, I was trying to find the old frame data haha. Yea its virtually impossible to do some serious swag combos in the corner, but at least we can get some restand mindgames going.

Having said that...f4 into df2 with the buff? My goodness that feels disgusting.

At least Johnny Show Stopper has swag now
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
There was a note about how discharge now has the same reaction on hit as in the air. Pre-patch, discharge was -5 on hit on the ground but +15 on hit when the opponent was in a juggle state. This +15 on hit is apparently like +3 to +5 on hit now according to some people in the Raiden discord. Shame we lost the swaggy combos, but I think it's for the best as Raiden wpuld have been able to do like 30-35% combos into a free mixup post-patc if Discharge was still +15. Basically, the Discharge restand is now in line with other characters' restands.
Doing a 30% combo into a +5 restand is still pretty amazing honestly
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I think I may have to retract my statements on Raijin. Need more time to test him out in matches. Even though his damage with buff and safety are undeniable, the fact is you aren’t always going to have buff out. If you bring it out after a knockdown you sacrifice oki. So for now Thunder Wave retains its allure of mobility and consistent damage, while Raijin is more defensive with better safety once buff comes out.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I am confused by the buff to Lightning Strike, i.e. it supposedly tracks when amplified. I tried to do that in the lab yesterday and i didn't notice any difference from the way it worked before. I tried to AMP on block, but it didn't seem to work. Has anybody tested this and if so, how does it work?
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I am confused by the buff to Lightning Strike, i.e. it supposedly tracks when amplified. I tried to do that in the lab yesterday and i didn't notice any difference from the way it worked before. I tried to AMP on block, but it didn't seem to work. Has anybody tested this and if so, how does it work?
It just means that the second hit won’t whiff anymore when the opponent is airborne or in some other place that’s not directly under the tip of the move. Ie the move still sucks balls, like it really really sucks. The amp does nothing but more damage and it brings the opponent towards you, which is sort of counterintuitive for a full screen move meant to zone but hey it’s Raiden
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
From what I’ve played against. Any competent Liu Kang or any character with a decent projectile still gives Raijin trouble since you can’t effectively counter zone with your slow projectiles and you have to work your way in with buff on. By the time you get in, those same characters also have better up close tools than you do (Liu Kang and Johnny Cage can play the stagger meta much better than we do). Though I suppose that’s more of a MK11 problem, the characters with good up close tools somehow also have great projectiles, but the characters that aren’t all that good up close also have bad projectiles to make things worse.

Good thing is Raijin can still reversal punish the F43 string, discharge can trade with his low fireball if you can time it and it stuffs the U3 portion so it’s a good all round counter to it. That is until they start staggering and you try to poke out and eat their 9f mid to the shin into KB into big damage.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
It just means that the second hit won’t whiff anymore when the opponent is airborne or in some other place that’s not directly under the tip of the move. Ie the move still sucks balls, like it really really sucks. The amp does nothing but more damage and it brings the opponent towards you, which is sort of counterintuitive for a full screen move meant to zone but hey it’s Raiden
So Lightning Strike is still pretty much useless. I was envisioning something like the following, if the opponent is further away from the spot where it hits, it would travel on the ground until it reaches their location. That's what I think when I hear "tracking".

I am happy for Raijin buffs, but I don't see the logic in nerfing his far teleport. It's not like Thunder Wave Raiden was highly used or anything. Heck, I've barely seen it in tournament play. And online, almost no one plays him. I am having to look for Raiden players on here and then schedule times when we can meet up on PSN and play a few matches, just so i can face another Raiden player. It's kind of sad how incomplete of a character Raiden is in MK11. He is about as bad now as MK9 Raiden was towards the end of that game, after NRS was done nerfing him into oblivion. Sigh. This is making me miss Thunder God Raiden from MKX that much more.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
So Lightning Strike is still pretty much useless. I was envisioning something like the following, if the opponent is further away from the spot where it hits, it would travel on the ground until it reaches their location. That's what I think when I hear "tracking".

I am happy for Raijin buffs, but I don't see the logic in nerfing his far teleport. It's not like Thunder Wave Raiden was highly used or anything. Heck, I've barely seen it in tournament play. And online, almost no one plays him. I am having to look for Raiden players on here and then schedule times when we can meet up on PSN and play a few matches, just so i can face another Raiden player. It's kind of sad how incomplete of a character Raiden is in MK11. He is about as bad now as MK9 Raiden was towards the end of that game, after NRS was done nerfing him into oblivion. Sigh. This is making me miss Thunder God Raiden from MKX that much more.
Lightning strike is good in certain MUs where they are unable to reversal punish it. I use it to zone out Kung Lao along with BF1 to force a teleport and full combo punish. Since it covers the forward air space very well you can zone effectively with it along with bolt. There are also several instances that guarantee a lightning strike for chip like after a midscreen superman (air is a frametrap and grounded is guaranteed) and after hitting BF1 AMP. However, Geras’ sand trap, Cetrion’s geyser and Liu Kang’s Dragon Kick can all reversal punish it from full screen. (I imagine all the shadow kicks and nitro kicks can also punish). Therefore in many MUs it’s best to use it sparingly.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
I wouldn't say LS is useless, but didn't get nearly the buff I expected either, it's good from FAR out zoning I mean far like full screen, great for zoning and chip damage though I think they should have made this move faster at least I don't even see how this tracks them much better than before to be honest. They really botched his TW over hopefully future patches he'll get buffed in this variation more. They nerfed the recovery by a few frames on his far teleport, why IDK lol. It wasn't even an issue, it's not like it was Scorps busted....NRS really fucked him hard in this game. I use TW but it's an effort to win with this variation. I'm happy for Raijin players though, it's just not my style and Raiden IMO should always have his damn teleport.
 
I've been in strong disagreement with the LS nerf since connecting the dots from the reveal event and at launch. So many other characters have steerable full screen pillar type moves that are all way crazier than Raiden's, and many of those characters have better everything else than Raiden anyways so I don't understand why he's not allowed a similar luxery.

The other moves even get 4 ranges whereas LS is only 3 ranges. It has an amp that only works on hit when previously it could be amped on whiff and block, so my question is what use does it have only on hit other than some different oki when he can just fly your ass into the corner for more damage anyway? Hell, you can't even naturally strike at people after a forward throw without re-positioning, only back throw lines you up for it.

I was looking forward to using LS before launch and now it's pretty much for random checks and getting the cheeky brutality on people.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I wouldn't say LS is useless, but didn't get nearly the buff I expected either, it's good from FAR out zoning I mean far like full screen, great for zoning and chip damage though I think they should have made this move faster at least I don't even see how this tracks them much better than before to be honest. They really botched his TW over hopefully future patches he'll get buffed in this variation more. They nerfed the recovery by a few frames on his far teleport, why IDK lol. It wasn't even an issue, it's not like it was Scorps busted....NRS really fucked him hard in this game. I use TW but it's an effort to win with this variation. I'm happy for Raijin players though, it's just not my style and Raiden IMO should always have his damn teleport.
Lol if the opponent knows the MU lightning strike will become useless. In those MUs that they can reversal punish you instantly lose a tool for zoning. You can only try to throw it out sparingly and risk eating a punish
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Yeah I don't think that move is great or anything but I play Soultaker/Spellmaster Shang and I played against this low level Raiden playter one time who would go full screen and spam the shit out of lightning strike and bolt and I was taken off guard by much I had to respect it without a way to punish it.

I understand that most matches he can't really do that without risking more on trades and being punished by I'd be wary of buffing the move too much or at all because you don't want to make his zoning too good with that teleport.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Lol if the opponent knows the MU lightning strike will become useless. In those MUs that they can reversal punish you instantly lose a tool for zoning. You can only try to throw it out sparingly and risk eating a punish

They cant punish you fro. Full screen away hes safe, at worst he trades unless they have a teleport.
That's why I only do it at safe distances lol and against only certain characters. The recovery on it is so dumb/slow, but if I need some chip it can be buffered right after a straight lightning blast. It's also good against jumpers keep in mind, if they try to jump from mid or far it's a great AA actually. So definitely wouldn't say useless, just don't use it often and only in certain situations.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Am I the only one struggling to perform Raijin's combos consistently, especially online of course.
Easier combos:
Starter~DB4 AMP, F4~BF3 midscreen
Starter (except b31)~DB4 AMP, 2, 243~DB2 corner

Both work on female and make hurtboxes but the corner one you need to start very close or else his s2 will not connect and you have to use the midscreen version.
 

Black Chapters

Elder Gods consulter..
Incomplete is a good word.

Why doesn't he use his staff in more than 1.3 moves?

Why doesn't he use his lightning to extend range like Cetrion or fucking Sonya?

Why does he have the dumbest air projectile rules with Lightning Storm?

Why is Lightning Rod even in the game?

Why is a god so slow with his power, Sonya can spit Sonic Rings out while hes dancing and getting smacked.

Why are his KBs so ass?

I can go on.

Very few people have been screwed over by this variant crap more than Raiden.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Incomplete is a good word.

Why doesn't he use his staff in more than 1.3 moves?

Why doesn't he use his lightning to extend range like Cetrion or fucking Sonya?

Why does he have the dumbest air projectile rules with Lightning Storm?

Why is Lightning Rod even in the game?

Why is a god so slow with his power, Sonya can spit Sonic Rings out while hes dancing and getting smacked.

Why are his KBs so ass?

I can go on.

Very few people have been screwed over by this variant crap more than Raiden.
Damn straight! And to add insult to injury they buff everyone else except TW Raiden lol like WTF NRS?
 
I feel like Sparkport should have been a base move for Raiden alone, giving him a claim on that kind of teleport makes more sense to me.
That said, it would completely change how the character is designed and is probably a result of them having an easier time making variation moves without always having to dance around his teleport.

That said, I think it was the easy way out. I agree that teleporting should be Raiden's "thing".
 
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