Video/Tutorial - Dragons Fire Liu Kang Pseudo block infinite explained

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'm not pushing any agenda, posting something that looks powerful does not somehow mean that. People didn't know just what guys like yourself were describing with Liu's block pressure so I made the video. Then people said it was ridiculously hard and super execution heavy so I tested that as well.

You know better than that. What you did is not execution heavy and that is never what any kang player was talking about when they said execution heavy.

Do f44 fbrc f44 bk 5 times in a row and video that please.

Do f213 fbrc 3 times with reversal armor on please.

Do iafb conbos in the corner please.

Don't be an ass please.

 

[navaroNe]

I agree this shouldn't be nerfed. Seriously. Why are people calling for Liu Kang nerfs when characters like Lao stay unchanged. This is good but it's all Liu Kang has.

seriously? why is it that when tom or someone brings up one of these pseudo unblockables/block infinites someone who uses the character says, "oh you can't nerf/normalize that! then my character would have nothing!". lol.

 

[Ares_Supreme]

You know better than that. What you did is not execution heavy and that is never what any kang player was talking about when they said execution heavy.

Do f44 fbrc f44 bk 5 times in a row and video that please.

Do f213 fbrc 3 times with reversal armor on please.

Do iafb conbos in the corner please.

Don't be an ass please.

THANK YOU! I keep telling people that Liu probably has the highest execution and room for error in the game.

 

[AssassiN]

You know better than that. What you did is not execution heavy and that is never what any kang player was talking about when they said execution heavy.

Do f44 fbrc f44 bk 5 times in a row and video that please.

Do f213 fbrc 3 times with reversal armor on please.

Do iafb conbos in the corner please.

Don't be an ass please.

I would have suggested F12~FBRC, 113 tbh.
I don't think Liu is that execution heavy.

 

[Tom Brady]

You know better than that. What you did is not execution heavy and that is never what any kang player was talking about when they said execution heavy.

Do f44 fbrc f44 bk 5 times in a row and video that please.

Do f213 fbrc 3 times with reversal armor on please.

Do iafb conbos in the corner please.

Don't be an ass please.

And I agree with you in those instances. I was just referring to the F213 loop.

 

[Rude]

I guess but they have to be

1) in the corner
and
2) have no meter

I think that is too many conditions to warrant a nerf in a game where you almost always have meter. It makes meter management important and that is a good thing imo.

You forgot Quan Chi. Who does not have launching armor except in one variation and whose armor move can be broken by anything.

Whose fastest "poke" is a high at 8 frames in standing 2. How does he get out, especially when cornered?

 

[Rude]

You know better than that. What you did is not execution heavy and that is never what any kang player was talking about when they said execution heavy.

Do f44 fbrc f44 bk 5 times in a row and video that please.

Do f213 fbrc 3 times with reversal armor on please.

Do iafb conbos in the corner please.

Don't be an ass please.

If you're a dedicated Liu Kang main that plays this variation, why WOULDN'T yoi be able to do this consistently?

The Quan Chi community tried the execution barrier argument when we pointed out that it is very difficult to time the one-frame pseudo-unblockable consistently, and we got blown up for it.

It's just muscle memory. With enough practice, anyone can overcome an execution barrier.

 

[Enexemander]

You forgot Quan Chi. Who does not have launching armor except in one variation and whose armor move can be broken by anything.

Whose fastest "poke" is a high at 8 frames in standing 2. How does he get out, especially when cornered?

You don't nerf a whole character because 2 variations of a character happen to be ass in the corner (and has arguable strengths to justify this weakness).

 

[Rude]

You don't nerf a whole character because 2 variations of a character happen to be ass in the corner (and has arguable strengths to justify this weakness).

No, i don't know that nerfing Liu is the answer.


I just want to know how Quan, even in Warlock, is supposed to escape?

He does have an armored launcher in that variation, but b12 handles that well enough.

Unlike Summoner, he can't loop vortexes over and over again and needs his meter for the vortex, to stay safe in footsies, and to get up.

So him having the meter everytime vs Liu in Warlock doesn't seem likely.

So, what should Quan do about this?

 

[Phosferrax]

Are people REALLY not understanding how broke f213 fbdc is?

 

[Derptile]

If you're a dedicated Liu Kang main that plays this variation, why WOULDN'T yoi be able to do this consistently?

The Quan Chi community tried the execution barrier argument when we pointed out that it is very difficult to time the one-frame pseudo-unblockable consistently, and we got blown up for it.

It's just muscle memory. With enough practice, anyone can overcome an execution barrier.

Linking F44 FBRC with F44 on hit is probably a 1-2 frame link that'll do ~28ish% meterless and 40ish% with meter, it's in the top 10 hardest links in the game for sure. You can't really compare it to a 1 frame link for an Psuedo-unblockable constant vortex, just saying lol.

I've already tried explaining to people that F213 DC needs to be changed, but they have their own opinions

 

[Enexemander]

Are people REALLY not understanding how broke f213 fbdc is?

I guess you missed this.

AK LordoftheFly Wrote:

Lets talk flow chart here cause you are obviously pushing an agenda.

Based on the pressure you posted in your video, every character in the game can armor out. Therefore, Liu Kang HAS to either block and punish, or do b12 fk mb to stay in. After b12 fk mb the opponent can also armor out again meaning LK has to either block, or b12 fk mb again.

LK can make f213 have no holes to armor by using run cancels, by doing this he gets 3 reps into b12 fkmb where the opponent gets a chance to armor out again forcing liu kang to either block and punish or use b12 fk mb yet again.

LK has no guaranteed pressure by using a dash cancel. Does he has good options? Sure but every pressure character should. Does every character in the game have a way out of this? Yes they do. (except maybe takeda or tremor but even then I'm not sure they don't have other options with their ninja jumps)

When armor is respected by liu kang, that now opens up the opponent do do pokes and/or 50/50 and/or grabs.

Liu kang dialogue with opponent:
Liu Kang - "Will my opponent armor this time? Last time I got launched for a full combo. I should either block or try to break it with b12 FK mb"
Opponent - "No DAWWWWWG, I'm not gonna armor this time...I'm just gonna grab you and throw you in the corner."
Liu Kang - "OK so i'll b12 fk mb to break your armor or you will block it and i'll be +2"
Opponent - "Ok then I'll block one more and then armor out of your next f213 after! You can't loop it forever."
Liu Kang - "Fine, you know what DAWWWG? I'll just use run cancels so there are no holes! Try armoring now!"
Opponent - "I'll just take the 3rd hit and tech roll out and be free ORRRRRR I'll just armor you after your b12 fk mb and launch you for a full combo!"

Its really not that big a deal everyone. The dash cancels are only an issue if you don't have meter and thats on YOU not liu kang. Everyone starts with a bar. It is still good...I'm not saying its not. But its not even on par with other pressure IMO that leads to full combo. Tanya, for one, may have more holes but her pressure leads to a 30% standing reset if you take the hit where liu kangs knocks you away if you take the hit.

Now, do you have anything to add to that, or do you just want to yell NERF instead of LEVELING UP?

 

[STRYKIE]

Linking F44 FBRC with F44 on hit is probably a 1-2 frame link that'll do ~28ish% meterless and 40ish% with meter, it's in the top 10 hardest links in the game for sure. You can't really compare it to a 1 frame link for an Psuedo-unblockable constant vortex, just saying lol.

I've already tried explaining to people that F213 DC needs to be changed, but they have their own opinions

F44 FBRC on hit has a reasonable window, you could link F3 from it if you wanted to. It's just that F44 by itself doesn't have much hitstun so you pretty much have to do the cancel immediately.

Besides the point, I'm just throwing that out there.

I guess you missed this.

AK LordoftheFly Wrote:



Now, do you have anything to add to that, or do you just want to yell NERF instead of LEVELING UP?

Level up? He mains the character ya fuckin' numbnuts...

 

[Scoot Magee]

Don't be dramatic. Liu was nerfed in almost every patch just not in the way people would have hoped. This game is still full of dirt the witch hunt has just set its eyes on Liu Kang this week. There is only one true champion of mortal kombat and that champion has returned.

Dramatic? I'm not asking for nerfs.

 

[Phosferrax]

I guess you missed this.

AK LordoftheFly Wrote:



Now, do you have anything to add to that, or do you just want to yell NERF instead of LEVELING UP?

Because you only abuse the f213 when they have no meter, at which point it becomes BROKEN. Has it really taken you 10 pages to figure this out?

 

[Enexemander]

Level up? He mains the character ya fuckin' numbnuts...

Who he mains has no relevance to his complaint.

The LordoftheFly threw down the gauntlet. He made a nice write-up and obviously put some time into it. To respond to that kind of effort and goodwill with one line complaints is just disrespectful.

LordoftheFly did work. Now do work as well if you want to counter the argument, or take your lazy ass home.

 

[Lone]

I'm confused, which logical Liu Kang main hasn't said that F213 Dash Cancel being that plus is overkill? We even agree that his run cancel from F213 shouldn't be as plus as it is. There is nothing else to do but wait for the hotfix/patch and go from there.

I finally watched the video and I agree, it is very misleading to most of the viewers because they are uninformed with the character, especially at the end with the whole "This is execution heavy?!?!?" C'mon, you can be better than that.

Dash cancels aren't complex whatsoever.

But when you are repeatedly run canceling a fireball, it most definitely is, for a majority of this community. It takes time and desire to learn, many players here aren't willing to put in that lab work. Especially when they refuse to lab situations that impede them in matches.

I think, if a character is meant to pressure, they should have to run cancel for it, rather than simply EXing a special move. No way in hell anyone can seriously sit here and say that in this game, Liu's form of pressure in DF or D'Vorah's SQ is easier to do than BS Shinnok or Tempest Lao.

That last paragraph was solely meant for people claiming how herpderp it is. We are just stating you have to work for it more. In MKX, what else is more execution heavy?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Who he mains has no relevance to his complaint.

The LordoftheFly threw down the gauntlet. He made a nice write-up and obviously put some time into it. To respond to that kind of effort and goodwill with one line complaints is just disrespectful.

LordoftheFly did work. Now do work as well if you want to counter the argument, or take your lazy ass home.

I agree with Phos, not LOTF.

 

[hardguard]

I'm confused, which logical Liu Kang main hasn't said that F213 Dash Cancel being that plus is overkill? We even agree that his run cancel from F213 shouldn't be as plus as it is. There is nothing else to do but wait for the hotfix/patch and go from there.

I finally watched the video and I agree, it is very misleading to most of the viewers because they are uninformed with the character, especially at the end with the whole "This is execution heavy?!?!?" C'mon, you can be better than that.

Dash cancels aren't complex whatsoever.

But when you are repeatedly run canceling a fireball, it most definitely is, for a majority of this community. It takes time and desire to learn, many players here aren't willing to put in that lab work. Especially when they refuse to lab situations that impede them in matches.

I think, if a character is meant to pressure, they should have to run cancel for it, rather than simply EXing a special move. No way in hell anyone can seriously sit here and say that in this game, Liu's form of pressure in DF or D'Vorah's SQ is easier to do than BS Shinnok or Tempest Lao.

That last paragraph was solely meant for people claiming how herpderp it is. We are just stating you have to work for it more. In MKX, what else is more execution heavy?

Nerf F213 FBDC but we keep F213 FBRC.

 

[STRYKIE]

Who he mains has no relevance to his complaint.

The LordoftheFly threw down the gauntlet. He made a nice write-up and obviously put some time into it. To respond to that kind of effort and goodwill with one line complaints is just disrespectful.

LordoftheFly did work. Now do work as well if you want to counter the argument, or take your lazy ass home.

Doesn't it though? He wasn't obliged to share his opinion and could've been like every other fuckboi hiding under the sheep's clothing until NRS gives the green light that there will be no more major patches. Me and many other of the guys in the UK scene have played multiple sets against his Liu offline, and let me tell you, he's done well to prove his point, nor is there the metagame to it that LordoftheFly is trying to sell.

And listen, LOTF doesn't even play Dragon's Fire and will have you believe any kind of single digit frame link isn't practical. Throw down the gauntlet? The way he's going, he couldn't throw his way out of a paper bag. With all that said, I think Phos is entitled to respond however he wants.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

I'm confused, which logical Liu Kang main hasn't said that F213 Dash Cancel being that plus is overkill? We even agree that his run cancel from F213 shouldn't be as plus as it is. There is nothing else to do but wait for the hotfix/patch and go from there.

I finally watched the video and I agree, it is very misleading to most of the viewers because they are uninformed with the character, especially at the end with the whole "This is execution heavy?!?!?" C'mon, you can be better than that.

Dash cancels aren't complex whatsoever.

But when you are repeatedly run canceling a fireball, it most definitely is, for a majority of this community. It takes time and desire to learn, many players here aren't willing to put in that lab work. Especially when they refuse to lab situations that impede them in matches.

I think, if a character is meant to pressure, they should have to run cancel for it, rather than simply EXing a special move. No way in hell anyone can seriously sit here and say that in this game, Liu's form of pressure in DF or D'Vorah's SQ is easier to do than BS Shinnok or Tempest Lao.

That last paragraph was solely meant for people claiming how herpderp it is. We are just stating you have to work for it more. In MKX, what else is more execution heavy?

Even Run canceling the fireballs is a little over the top. example being:
F213 FBRC, F213 FBRC, F213, flying kick into Bicycle kick, b12 is inescapeable by a bit of the cast even with armor

 

[Derptile]

Even Run canceling the fireballs is a little over the top. example being:
F213 FBRC, F213 FBRC, F213, flying kick into Bicycle kick, b12 is inescapeable by most of the cast even with armor

You can backdash after the flying kick MB, everyone who's played against DF at a high level knows that's what the character's about and that they should stay that way.

 

[smokey]

Getting out is conditional.

As Cage, Liu Kang can put you in this any time you put yourself at - frames (so if i hit him with any of my normals on block except a select few, barring run cancels) or he connects any poke or blocked normal with a fbrc, or off a jump in, dealing some free chip and building up a bar unless you armour out.
If im out of meter and LK has anything close to a bar then im not getting out, simple as that. I die to chip unless Liu kang drops an input somewhere or cant hitconfirm and leaves me on the floor with a bar from taking a hit. If i take that hit, unless it was enough to gain me a meter from those hits then im still downed in the corner against Liu Kang with no way out, so he can wait for my delayed wake up and just go straight back in for more cancels.... and even if i have the bar then b1 into a fireball cancel is still guaranteeing that i cant spend it to get up and out.

Fuck whoever says I need to level up to beat that, unless counterpicking is leveling up.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Meanwhile...every other character community is going...

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

You can backdash after the flying kick MB, everyone who's played against DF at a high level knows that's what the character's about and that they should stay that way.

ya, im checking the backdashes now as we speak actually, i assumed you have to have one of the better backdashes in the game (ermac, etc) but to make sure im checking others out as well