General/Other - Shaolin Kung Jin (Shaolin) Discussion Thread

[TackyHaddock]

My bad man lol... I panicked.

no worries, i would have done the same thing and in my temporary moment of panic and despair would have forgotten that frame data is often wrong

 

[JesterSMX]

no worries, i would have done the same thing and in my temporary moment of panic and despair would have forgotten that frame data is often wrong

Has it always said -10?

 

[TackyHaddock]

Has it always said -10?

I can't recall - i just knew it was never that negative, but can't remember what the unreliable in game frame data said

 

[Renzokuken]

EX low chakram and EX regular chakram both used to say 0 on block and 0 on hit. Now they both say -10 on block and +23 on hit, but are actually still neutral on block.

 

[JesterSMX]

EX low chakram and EX regular chakram both used to say 0 on block and 0 on hit. Now they both say -10 on block and +23 on hit, but are actually still neutral on block.

Told you about the haters. Everything else with Shaolin seems the same... So far...

 

[Renzokuken]

Told you about the haters. Everything else with Shaolin seems the same... So far...

My heart did a dance when I saw nothing about Kung Jin nerfs on the official patch notes Tyler just posted.

 

[TackyHaddock]

My heart did a dance when I saw nothing about Kung Jin nerfs on the official patch notes Tyler just posted.

Yup, this was me upon reading the patch notes:

 

[JesterSMX]

Yeah I'm kinda glad I jumped the gun... heard everyone's true feelings... and it's still neutral. Haters exposed. Doesn't make sense to change the data though. NRS troll?

 

[Renzokuken]

Yeah I'm kinda glad I jumped the gun... heard everyone's true feelings... and it's still neutral. Haters exposed. Doesn't make sense to change the data though. NRS troll?

Paulo is either trolling Slayer or playing with our emotions. Either way, he's sadistic.

 

[TackyHaddock]

Who do you guys think are the toughest matchups at this point? I feel like Shaolin can compete against the entire cast, but I would say the two toughest for me are piercing mileena and impostor shinnok.

I think he fares very well against the DLC, including all of the borgs, leatherface and obviously Bo. Have not yet fought that many aliens so can't really comment, but I sense he does reasonably ok there as well.

 

[Wolverine32]

Got some new corner combos to squeeze another 1% out of KJ. Works with any starter and I put the 221 starter in as this is the punish I use when people try to wake up and get out of the corner. I know it's not huge but any bit helps. I'll list them below. Hope these help anyone looking for some new corner BnB's

Spoiler

F24xxEXdb1-NJP-U1-11-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 = 33%
B12/4xxEXdb1-NJP-U1-11-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 = 33%
221xxEXdb1-NJP-U1-11-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 = 37%

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I think the -10 is the first hit of ex chakram but not the 2nd one. The reason I think this is because the recovery is based off the first hit.

 

[TackyHaddock]

Got some new corner combos to squeeze another 1% out of KJ. Works with any starter and I put the 221 starter in as this is the punish I use when people try to wake up and get out of the corner. I know it's not huge but any bit helps. I'll list them below. Hope these help anyone looking for some new corner BnB's

Spoiler

F24xxEXdb1-NJP-U1-11-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 = 33%
B12/4xxEXdb1-NJP-U1-11-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 = 33%
221xxEXdb1-NJP-U1-11-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 = 37%

hell yeah I do u1 in corner combos all the time, i feel like it gets ppl salty and I love it

 

[Wolverine32]

hell yeah I do u1 in corner combos all the time, i feel like it gets ppl salty and I love it

Have you tried using two? It's a tight timing but it adds another percent and just looks swaggy as hell. I use njp-u1-u1-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 and it just looks straight nasty

 

[TackyHaddock]

Have you tried using two? It's a tight timing but it adds another percent and just looks swaggy as hell. I use njp-u1-u1-iadk-34xxdb3-d4 and it just looks straight nasty

no i haven't, didn't realize it was possible. Will try it, thanks!

 

[Wolverine32]

It's suuuuuper tight but I've landed it once or twice. I'm sure it can be done consistently but I would just stick to one in match.

 

[Renzokuken]

I think the -10 is the first hit of ex chakram but not the 2nd one. The reason I think this is because the recovery is based off the first hit.

Wasn't the -10 confirmed to be an oversight by Paulo? I don't think they actually changed anything about EX low/regular chakram.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Wasn't the -10 confirmed to be an oversight by Paulo? I don't think they actually changed anything about EX low/regular chakram.

Actually that would imply you could jump the 2nd hit so nvm...iunno.

 

[TackyHaddock]

I thought I'd create a shaolin matchup list, listing out all the characters from most difficult to least difficult to fight against with Shaolin. Didn't break it out by variation, instead considering all variations of the same character as a whole (obviously this is the most questionable with triborg, but I don't have the time to break out all variations). Obviously shaolin is an excellent character with very few bad matchups, but I'd order them roughly in the following way with regard to difficulty. Probably parallels the general tier list in some ways, but there are some clear differences imo. What do you guys think?

1. Mileena

2. Shinnok

3. Takeda

4. Kung Lao

5. Quan Chi

6. Alien (but this one is still a question mark)

7. Kotal

8. Liu Kang

9. Ferra/Torr

10. Goro

11. Johnny Cage

12. Erron Black

13. Sonya

14. Ermac

15. Scorpion

16. Kano

17. Triborg

18. Kenshi

19. Jax

20. Kitana

21. Sub Zero

22. Leatherface

23. D’vorah

24. Tremor

25. Cassie

26. Jacqui

27. Reptile

28. Tanya

29. Jason

30. Bo Rai Cho

31. Predator

32. Raiden

 

[Renzokuken]

I thought I'd create a shaolin matchup list, listing out all the characters from most difficult to least difficult to fight against with Shaolin. Didn't break it out by variation, instead considering all variations of the same character as a whole (obviously this is the most questionable with triborg, but I don't have the time to break out all variations). Obviously shaolin is an excellent character with very few bad matchups, but I'd order them roughly in the following way with regard to difficulty. Probably parallels the general tier list in some ways, but there are some clear differences imo. What do you guys think?

1. Mileena

2. Shinnok

3. Takeda

4. Kung Lao

5. Quan Chi

6. Alien (but this one is still a question mark)

7. Kotal

8. Liu Kang

9. Ferra/Torr

10. Goro

11. Johnny Cage

12. Erron Black

13. Sonya

14. Ermac

15. Scorpion

16. Kano

17. Triborg

18. Kenshi

19. Jax

20. Kitana

21. Sub Zero

22. Leatherface

23. D’vorah

24. Tremor

25. Cassie

26. Jacqui

27. Reptile

28. Tanya

29. Jason

30. Bo Rai Cho

31. Predator

32. Raiden

It gets a little blurry after the top 3, but your top 3 looks pretty spot on to me. In general, I don't think Jin has a single 3-7 MU anymore (if he had any before). Like you said, he can hold his own against the entire cast, especially in the game's current state.

 

[TackyHaddock]

It gets a little blurry after the top 3, but your top 3 looks pretty spot on to me. In general, I don't think Jin has a single 3-7 MU anymore (if he had any before). Like you said, he can hold his own against the entire cast, especially in the game's current state.

yeah, thinking about it more, I might actually put Takeda at 2 and Shinnok at 3. It is very difficult to win a set against a high level takeda player (particularly SR and Ronin). It's certainly not 3-7, but wouldn't be unreasonable to put that one at 4-6 imo.

 

[Tweedy]

I've been having the most trouble vs Liu Kang. Granted I play against a guy who has perfected the f213 cancels, and I don't have a top Mileena or Shinnok to play.

He shreds through EX DB4 with B1 constantly, like, I feel like I shouldn't even use it at all. That's pretty much all I have for you guys lol. I do feel like Kang is able to D2 Jin's jump ins, unlike most of the cast. He also has top tier ground speed, allowing him to trip guard easily and space well. His flying kick is safe, fireballs are better. Just feel like he's overall better than Jin in this MU, and eliminates the EX DB4 mind game that's always there vs other characters.

Takeda is definitely not easy. After F12 2+4 low kunai on block, it's not easy for Jin to take his turn. I just use Kotal Khan because Takeda has to hold B1 after that string. When I use Jin, I typically just D4 or instant air jump 1.

I do feel like Jin could do well vs Mileena. Currently Mileena doesn't struggle in too many match ups. Jin and Shinnok were two I was thinking of, after losing like 42-10 to Foxy lol. My specific thoughts on the match up, are basically that Mileena can't anti air him easily, Jin's oki can start with low attacks, stopping roll from being an invincible wake up(it basically is vs Kung Lao RIP). In the neutral Mileena probably wins. B12 >

 

[TackyHaddock]

I've been having the most trouble vs Liu Kang. Granted I play against a guy who has perfected the f213 cancels, and I don't have a top Mileena or Shinnok to play.

He shreds through EX DB4 with B1 constantly, like, I feel like I shouldn't even use it at all. That's pretty much all I have for you guys lol. I do feel like Kang is able to D2 Jin's jump ins, unlike most of the cast. He also has top tier ground speed, allowing him to trip guard easily and space well. His flying kick is safe, fireballs are better. Just feel like he's overall better than Jin in this MU, and eliminates the EX DB4 mind game that's always there vs other characters.

Takeda is definitely not easy. After F12 2+4 low kunai on block, it's not easy for Jin to take his turn. I just use Kotal Khan because Takeda has to hold B1 after that string. When I use Jin, I typically just D4 or instant air jump 1.

I do feel like Jin could do well vs Mileena. Currently Mileena doesn't struggle in too many match ups. Jin and Shinnok were two I was thinking of, after losing like 42-10 to Foxy lol. My specific thoughts on the match up, are basically that Mileena can't anti air him easily, Jin's oki can start with low attacks, stopping roll from being an invincible wake up(it basically is vs Kung Lao RIP). In the neutral Mileena probably wins. B12 >

Mileena nullifies many of Jin's tools imo. As just one example, you can't really use upkick in the normal manner as a way to get in (poor man's teleport / repositioning tool) - her telekick will knock it out of the air every time, sometimes even leading to full combo.

also, her sais are better than chakrams overall, and at the very least cancel them out.

 

[Wolverine32]

Anyone got any tips for the ninjutsu scorp match up? I've just finally started playing against a fundamentally strong scorp and my unfamiliarity with anything besides yolo tele scorpions is getting me killed. I know not to jump against him because of b2 but that out ranges all of my pokes and staying out of that range is a projectile battle and he can tele on reaction so I'm getting bodied I feel like. Any advice for future sets?

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I thought I'd create a shaolin matchup list, listing out all the characters from most difficult to least difficult to fight against with Shaolin. Didn't break it out by variation, instead considering all variations of the same character as a whole (obviously this is the most questionable with triborg, but I don't have the time to break out all variations). Obviously shaolin is an excellent character with very few bad matchups, but I'd order them roughly in the following way with regard to difficulty. Probably parallels the general tier list in some ways, but there are some clear differences imo. What do you guys think?

1. Mileena

2. Shinnok

3. Takeda

4. Kung Lao

5. Quan Chi

6. Alien (but this one is still a question mark)

7. Kotal

8. Liu Kang

9. Ferra/Torr

10. Goro

11. Johnny Cage

12. Erron Black

13. Sonya

14. Ermac

15. Scorpion

16. Kano

17. Triborg

18. Kenshi

19. Jax

20. Kitana

21. Sub Zero

22. Leatherface

23. D’vorah

24. Tremor

25. Cassie

26. Jacqui

27. Reptile

28. Tanya

29. Jason

30. Bo Rai Cho

31. Predator

32. Raiden

I think most of this is wrong because you don't take specific variations into consideration.

KJ loses to Piercing Mileena, Acidic Alien, and Imposter Shinnok.

Takeda isn't hard to play against with KJ, he's just hard to play against in general..that doesn't make it the 3rd hardest for KJ.

Acidic can u3 any aerials KJ tries to do, including divekick and jump ins, air acid takes out his aerial game completely.

And Piercing Mileena is piercing Mileena

Imposter only wins because tele and hellsparks. Can't get in, can't get out. If he could stay in his face without meter it'd be equal