Kitana General Discussion

[ChaseRLewis]

From playing against the top tiers I feel the matchups go like this

Jacqui
5-5
Fairly even, Kitana's mid-range pokes have more range and fans can actually be effective in the matchup. Problem really is damage and Kitana's only mixup tool is throw which Jacqui does really well against. One of the few matchups I feel Kitana wins overall in neutral against the top tiers.

Geras
4.5-5.5. Slight favor Geras, if we had TK fan in this game we would probably win as we could throw fan without worrying as much about his sand move in the neutral but as it goes we have to play a mid-range poking range where I feel we lose the damage/oki war when we mess up. If you have better fundamentals then your opponent though you'll generally win this matchup fairly often when you don't get randomed out to throw loops.

Sonya
4-6
Sonya's projectile is better than ours, her mixup is better, and her top end damage is better. She needs meter to confirm into big damage safely so you can get punishes even against good players that yolo occasionally and if you can get a life lead you can negate her zoning game plan by just planning on trades and ducking intelligently. Square wave can also punish orbital drop on reaction sometimes for a KB. Legitimately if fan was a better projectile and Kitana just had a bit more damage this would be a 5-5.

Erron Black
3-7
His mixup is stupid, his fatal blow negates your projectile game completely, stance shot negates projectile game for free, and his normals are waaaay better than they should be. Feel you can beat him in neutral, but once he gets started you could just die to low/overhead/throw guesses endlessly. Feel the biggest issue, is he doesn't always even have to play footsies due to his stupid overhead kick basically bypassing it safely, while catching neutral jump, and leading to his stupid oki pressure.

Cassie
Don't feel I've played enough good ones to say for sure. Feel like low-shot dominates the projectile game and her damage is overall better. Feel Cassie's favor, but no idea how much.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Geras
4.5-5.5. Slight favor Geras, if we had TK fan in this game we would probably win as we could throw fan without worrying as much about his sand move in the neutral but as it goes we have to play a mid-range poking range where I feel we lose the damage/oki war when we mess up. If you have better fundamentals then your opponent though you'll generally win this matchup fairly often when you don't get randomed out to throw loops.

This is even. Some even think Kitana wins. She can definitely do TK fan. Him not being able to abuse f212 hurts also.

 

[New York Pizza]

Online casuals with shazzy

 

[kevkopdx]

Online casuals with shazzy

Nice stuff! Those juicy d3 anti airs! I’ve never even attempted that

 

[New York Pizza]

Nice stuff! Those juicy d3 anti airs! I’ve never even attempted that

Thanks. D3 low profiles jump in attacks if you do it late enough. But I probably should attempt a d2 more for practicality lol

 

[DarkSado]

Thanks. D3 low profiles jump in attacks if you do it late enough. But I probably should attempt a d2 more for practicality lol

Yea your really good at d3 anti air something I struggle with.

 

[DarksydeDash]

D3 is so inconsistent for me, it loses to jump ins all the time when I use it :\

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I use it a lot, it’s my favorite anti air but it loses mostly to jump kicks so I pretty much see what my oponent does, if he uses mostly j2/1’s I will anti air with d3 or s1 but if they use jump kicks I just go with uppercut, which IMO has an amazing anti air hitbox (horrible horizontal hitbox tho)
Or against some characters with great air normals like Baraka, Kitana herself, D’vorah, Kabal, etc... i don’t even bother with d3.
Also I use d3 100% of the times against cross ups.

 

[gitblame]

Yeah, from some ranges some characters cannot be antiaired even with this. My big problem is always trying to antiair someone even if I am cornered. Very often it ends super bad, because I am eating jump kick in corner into massive combo and I die.

 

[StormGoddess]

It's KITANA KHAN -

MS KANG if you're NASTY...

 

[gibster13]

buff kitana

 

[John_NX]

buff kitana

Literally my "custom title" at the moment for TYM lol

 

[New York Pizza]

Hype set with GAMETIME6193

 

[New York Pizza]

@EMPRESS_SunFire I was scouting for the reactionary square boost punish but he kept doing it from full screen lol. I think you're right though it's probably an even mu. The other night towards the end I think I became too rushy and you downloaded me anyway with those godlike wiff punishes and trip guards. Last night I felt much more prepared. Ugh you're always right <3

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

@EMPRESS_SunFire I was scouting for the reactionary square boost punish but he kept doing it from full screen lol. I think you're right though it's probably an even mu. The other night towards the end I think I became too rushy and you downloaded me anyway with those godlike wiff punishes and trip guards. Last night I felt much more prepared. Ugh you're always right <3

Yeah, blood trail is actually really important for Skarlet because Kitana’s fan toss is faster than any of her projectiles so it’s a great check so then she has to use blood trail to go under fan toss. However it becomes a guessing game because Kitana Can square boost over it. It’s a chess MU and I’m glad I could help <3

 

[Bigzo]

D3 is so inconsistent for me, it loses to jump ins all the time when I use it :\

I actually came to this thread for help on this very thing.

I can't anti air with D3, S1, D1, or D2 to save my life. Every time I do it I get beat out but a jump kick or jump punch + combo.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Kinda wanna go give my thoughts on Kitana because after playing her since day one, I feel like she is in a position where she can win but everything you do feels unrewarding.


Damage:
Using 12 as your punisher gets you only 22% for a bar. Any other string is barely even 27% That's pathetic when pretty much all the cast gets that without any meter and part of me thinks this is because no fan combos midscreen toned her damage down. In the corner our damage is much more respectable and we have the power of throws.. Like everyone else but we don't even get a KB off of ours for them teching wrong.

Frames and hitboxes:
She's a character that relies on whiff punishing with a 17 frame advancing mid with massive recovery so pray your opponent doesn't jump, and has no mid hitting projectile for a bar so you have to go to your opponent if they have a life lead. We don't have any mixups except staggers which are all negative on block (except B2) so any character with a 11 frame mid or fast poke that challenges always gets their turn back because our best poke is 7 frames with an awful hitbox and range. While our other pokes are 9 frames and are punishable by 6-7 frame pokes. Our fastest mid is 13 frames which then leads to either a safe string that has a gap and doesn't allow a combo midscreen (B131), or a string that is negative, 2nd hits can be ducked and d2'd for a KB, but leads to a combo or a 30% rushing blow on KH.


Strings:
Next we have a bunch of useless strings. F2222 is great for a combo ender and that's it because it's death on block. 212222 is a high that starts up slow, is negative, and completing the string doesn't give you a hit confirm and also keeps you negative. 21343 is the same thing and would be badass if we could do a air fan into a juggle but.. nope. 32 is our most damaging string to start combos outside of B231 but is a high that starts up slow and completing the string with 3212 is full combo punishable and gives nothing on hit. Speaking of B231 there is no point in doing B321343 because the kicks can randomly whiff on block and you are -7 without them ducking it. B321D2 is good until your opponent realizes they can hit you out of it, flawless block, or actually just block it because you're negative for committing. But hey, it has a KB if the last hit of the string hits so once we get low fan toss in a variation we have scary 50/50. F234 would be a good string if.. we could cancel it or if it wasn't negative like everything else. B34 is 13 frames with stubby range and hits low but gives nothing on hit in fanfare except ass and is the only way to get good damage in highborne when you're in the corner.

Wakeups and Flawless Blocks:
Awful hitbox on her U2 wakeup/FB, borderline useless unless you're in the corner. Even then, there is a deadline where your opponent can just jump right through it. U3 is the way to go but you're spending a bar for 9% and hit advantage that gives nothing.

Specials:

We have one of the worst projectiles in the game; even Kano gets a mid projectile for a bar. Her fan toss is full combo punishable with AMP or not and if you amp it, the 2nd fan can be ducked right after blocking the first one so that's a free D2 KB for your opponent. Did I mention it's negative on hit? It's saving factor is that it's fast and you can even anti air with it but you get nothing off of it. In most cases, you'll find yourself spending a bar only to have the 2nd fan completely miss them despite getting hit by the first fan. Ass is fantastic because it acts like a pseudo slide by going over lows and punishing long range moves like scorpion's spear. My only question is why can't we AMP the Krushing Blow portion of this move? It should be full combo punishable too so that's a good design choice. Overall this move alone makes fanfare amazing in lots of MUs. Royal Protection is the worst parry in the game. It's a projectile parry that encourages you to.. parry projectiles for a damage buff only to have you get punished for doing so because most characters throw more than one especially when AMP'd. The damage buff also doesn't last long and considering we are using this move midscreen or farther away, we don't even get to use it when the distance is closed. Quick execution is a way for us to cash out for more damage and allows us to switch sides but whiffs on female characters if they are grounded. Fan Lift is our combo extender that lets the opponent fall out of it despite being in a stun state but combos off what it needs to. Float is good for mind games until your opponent remembers they have d2. Even if they block the first jump in the 2nd one is -5 or more so they can hit you out of potential string you do. Highborn gives us zoning and anti zoning options with negative cancels and an awful KB requirement via hitting three homing sai. Razors are nothing more than a combo extender in the corner off one string or a jump kick with the most random hitbox in the game. This special will not connect off any string except b14 midscreen and you're better off going for sai stab.


We can up play all we want but there's a reason why everyone has been dropping her at high level, including Semijj, Trepound, Saltface, and Kitana Prime.

 

[xWildx]

That’s quite a post about Kitana. Interestingly enough, I’ve been saying this about her since day one but was laughed at, misquoted, shaded, and otherwise denounced of my opinion by people who confused month one unfamiliarity with viability. Deja vu, anyone? I believe the same shit happened in MKX.

Funny that it takes Saltface popping off on his stream about how shit she is, and claiming all the other pros are dropping her, for people to finally start opening their damn eyes.

They took literally everything from Kitana, and provided absolutely nothing in return. They take away her air game but don’t even give us a mid fan when it’s enhanced. They take away her stagger game with these idiotic dial combos that no one asked for, many of which that lead to nothing. They take away her damage, but don’t give us the whiff punishing tools to open people up with.

FEAR MY 6% ASS, SONYA!

Kabal and Jade have better air conversions than Kitana. It’s really an injustice. Cassie, Sonya, and others have these beautiful stagger strings that don’t send them flailing helplessly across the screen if the opponent decides to jump AND have better zoning than her.

Kitana is my favorite character in the series next to Mileena. If I thought she was great, I would’ve said it from the beginning. However, I’m not too proud to admit when the character I’m using needs help.

 

[Juxtapose]

Wait, Semijj dropped her?

 

[xWildx]

Wait, Semijj dropped her?

So I’ve heard. Still waiting to see if it all remains true once the next tournament hits.

 

[John_NX]

Can someone help me with her B231 string? I can't wiffpunish almost at all. This is a huge issue I'm having with kitana. With other characters like skarlet, Jade and even Cassie I can perfectly wiffpunish but I can't with kitanas 17mid. I could try using b1 but the range is so bad...

 

[DavesHotnJuicy]

Can someone help me with her B231 string? I can't wiffpunish almost at all. This is a huge issue I'm having with kitana. With other characters like skarlet, Jade and even Cassie I can perfectly wiffpunish but I can't with kitanas 17mid. I could try using b1 but the range is so bad...

Midscreen I use b231 to whiff punish pokes often, in the corner too. In the corner when I get a knock down I shimmy to try and bait a wakeup and whiff punish with b231 but it sucks how they can jump out If you don’t time it right causing you to get full combo punished. Maybe you have an easier time with the others because their main whiff punish tool isn’t a dial in? B231 is also pretty good at catching people throwing out strings out of range too it seems like. I feel like I whiff punish more with b231 than b1

 

[Arqwart]

I just cannot understand Kitana in this game. I've tried coming back to her on multiple occasions as she's always been my go-to character for any NRS title, but she just.. isn't Kitana. I know yall have been airing your grievances about this since day 1; but it definitely bears repeating: not having fan combos, especially air fan floats, leaves this character as some blue chick who wields bladed fans instead of Kitana. From an MK9 and MKX Kitana lover: EVERYTHING about MK11 Kitana feels foreign and awkward. She's a mediocre zoner at best, her combos are extremely lackluster, and her air game isn't really that threatening -- the THREE historically strong areas that have defined Kitana for a decade.

I don't know how yall put up with this as I just can't do it. It doesn't feel worth the effort to learn this new blue girl.

 

[chrisisnice]

I have said it before... she does not feel like Kitana at all.

Kitana has been pretty consistent in all MK's since she was introduced with the exception of MKDA (where she was horrible!!!).

The lack of fan conversions, which has always been a core of her game style, makes her feel like a very heavy character to use and like a completely different character. While she usually lacked a little up close compared to some others in most games, it was made equal by controlling the air and having decent space control. Given that you can fall out of combos in this game, and the fact that they would be scaled anyway, I am unsure why the choice was made to drop fan conversions. It also seemed a strange choice to have the second fan in the amped version of fan throw not a mid.

What adds salt in to the wounds is that we have been dumped with a crappy Kitana tourney variation and a lame ass Mileena variation. They could have at least included a real fan based version with low fan / ground war and Edenian twist which would give her some more options.

I'm still having a tough time finding a maim in this one. At the moment I have been playing mainly Sub Zero (still far from a main though)... I NEVER thought I would ever say that (so don't tell anyone! ) !!!

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]