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Kitana General Discussion

armani

armani

Mortal
John_NX said:
How about we get our old fan combos back??
Click to expand...
I’m going to post a combo video pretty soon about this custom variation but I geniunely believe to get old kit back it would be...

up fan
ground war
edenian twist

she turns into this mixup heavy conversion knockdown type character. sometimes ending combos with edenian twist gives me enough time to jail a dash b231 into more combos/mixup (which is really cool)

combos would look like

starter, lift, b34, upfan, b14, edenian twist
anti air j1, 12, lift, b34, upfan, edenian twist
starter, lift, (b1)4, upfan, 21, edenian twist

and many more

giving her upfan gives her more leniency for longer & swaggier conversions. they really aren’t really damaging until you get into kb’s, which are limited per match. I feel like that kind of balances the variation.

she also gains access to high risk, high reward mixup opportunities like

b2 edenian twist
b231 edenian twist

12d2
12 edenian twist

and many more.. lol

which all factor amazingly into her already suffocating stagger pressure. if you guess right you can always get an upfan edenian twist conversion on jump ins.

PLUS

with edenian twist being a KB after a missed FB I will sometimes whiff a FB full screen then go in to do a mixup into a edenian twist KB combo. which nets you a good 45% lol. it’s almost like a little mini game where your a sniper fishing for a KB combo.

and also as far as footsies are concerned, you can make your opponent guess whether your trying throw a fan or do a midscreen edenian twist. kitana’s jump-ins get really dangerous because you can do j1/2/3 edenian twist. it is soo juicy lmaoo

overall I think it should be a thing!!! I made a combo vid for kit and honestly a lot of the bnb for this video came from playing this custom variation. feel free to check it out!

 
Rozalin1780

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
I love Edenian Twist, but there is no way it will be in a tournament viable variation without something else accompanying it that gimps the playstyle -- like the Edenian Twist/Edenian Razors variation that already exists in the presets. Edenian Twist is just too good.
 
Juxtapose

Juxtapose

Master
@armani Very cool kombo vid man, good stuff!

I was trying a little last night, and I'm having trouble consistently connecting Quick Execution after a B1,4 as an ender. Let's use j3 b14 db2 j1 b14 bf3* -as an example.

Quick Execution whiffs constantly and only seems to connect randomly. I'm finding it connects a lot more if I'm on the left side and always drops on the right side, and even then it's only connecting, say two or three times out of ten attempts.

If instead of B1,4, I walk forward a step and use 1,2, it works every time, either side.

Is there some trick or technique to get it to work off B1,4? By j1, you do mean a Jump in Front Punch, not a Neutral Jump Front Punch, correct?

Note I'm playing on the PC version, though I don't believe that makes a difference.

Thanks man!
 
John_NX

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Is there a way to convert S1 antiair from far way into a combo? I catch a lot of people with it but I can't capitalize on it.
Also...what the hell is up with her j2 hitbox it's so bad at times
 
beep_ima_sheep

beep_ima_sheep

RIP Smoke
Honest question about Kitana's bnbs. I commonly see starter~lift, ji2, ji2, 12/b13~ender. For example, Semij seems to do B231~lift, ji2, ji2, 12~exSqaure wave. What I don't understand, is that starter~lift, ji3, dash, F222 seems to be wayyy easier/more consistant and actually does more damage than most ji2 combos.

B231~lift, ji3 dash F222 does 26.3% and the Semij combo does 27.1% for a bar and without bar it is less than the F222 combo. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing so many Kitanas do double ji2 combos when ji3 F222 seems better in just about every way. What am I missing?

B231~lift, ji2, ji2, b14~square wave is 26.33% and is way less consistent.
 
Rozalin1780

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
beep_ima_sheep said:
Honest question about Kitana's bnbs. I commonly see starter~lift, ji2, ji2, 12/b13~ender. For example, Semij seems to do B231~lift, ji2, ji2, 12~exSqaure wave. What I don't understand, is that starter~lift, ji3, dash, F222 seems to be wayyy easier/more consistant and actually does more damage than most ji2 combos.

B231~lift, ji3 dash F222 does 26.3% and the Semij combo does 27.1% for a bar and without bar it is less than the F222 combo. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing so many Kitanas do double ji2 combos when ji3 F222 seems better in just about every way. What am I missing?

B231~lift, ji2, ji2, b14~square wave is 26.33% and is way less consistent.
Click to expand...
The answer is positioning at the end of a F2222 ender versus a Amp Square wave ender. F2222 ender tosses them full screen, which can be advantageous or disadvantageous depending on the matchup. Amp square wave allows you to continue your offense, bait a wakeup, etc. while F2222 on the other hand allows you to attempt zoning before they get back into footsie range. I would never, ever, use a F2222 ender versus Skarlet unless it puts her in the corner, for instance.

Not everything is about damage.
 
beep_ima_sheep

beep_ima_sheep

RIP Smoke
Rozalin1780 said:
The answer is positioning at the end of a F2222 ender versus a Amp Square wave ender. F2222 ender tosses them full screen, which can be advantageous or disadvantageous depending on the matchup. Amp square wave allows you to continue your offense, bait a wakeup, etc. while F2222 on the other hand allows you to attempt zoning before they get back into footsie range. I would never, ever, use a F2222 ender versus Skarlet unless it puts her in the corner, for instance.

Not everything is about damage.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Yeah positioning is certainly something to think about. I can definitely see adding double ji2, 12~ex Square wave into the mix, but the B14 ender seems too inconsistent to be worthwhile right now. Then again, maybe I just need to get good ahah. Thanks for the reply.
 
armani

armani

Mortal
beep_ima_sheep said:
Honest question about Kitana's bnbs. I commonly see starter~lift, ji2, ji2, 12/b13~ender. For example, Semij seems to do B231~lift, ji2, ji2, 12~exSqaure wave. What I don't understand, is that starter~lift, ji3, dash, F222 seems to be wayyy easier/more consistant and actually does more damage than most ji2 combos.

B231~lift, ji3 dash F222 does 26.3% and the Semij combo does 27.1% for a bar and without bar it is less than the F222 combo. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing so many Kitanas do double ji2 combos when ji3 F222 seems better in just about every way. What am I missing?

B231~lift, ji2, ji2, b14~square wave is 26.33% and is way less consistent.
Click to expand...
me personally,

double ji2 combos look a lot more flashy, and being that we’ve lost the comboqueen aspect of kitana its important to be able to express myself the best way I can... lmao

kit does an amazing job in this game when it comes to stagger pressure. there are some fundamental flaws with some of her buttons but when using everything in tandem with each other it creates for some pretty interesting situations. ending with ex bootyteledrop keeps her close to enforce another mixup after the combo vs F2222 twirly fan pushing the opponent far away in a land unknown. which is what you don’t want when your trying to peel away at someone’s healthbar
 
John_NX

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
My buff list for the upcoming patch would be something like this:
-B231 is now cancelable as B23 (Also it's now 15 frames instead of 17)
-Increased range to her B1
-Increased range to her B3
-F234 now hits Mid-Low-OH
Special abilities:
-AMP fan toss is now a mid and it's safe on block
-Ground war as well as Fan Flutter (debateable) is now in her main kit and no longer an ability.
-Fan nado gets it's range decreased but can now connect combos, however requires 2 ability slots to use (since it would be a veryyyy good neutral tool).
Half blood stance:
-Increased damage to her dive kick
-Make Gutted either faster or fix hitboxes so that it can be connected to combos much more reliable.
-Make seeking Sai faster
I don't really use her edenian razors so I can't talk about that.
I believe those changes would greatly help kitana and put her in a good spot.
 
gitblame

gitblame

Apprentice
She's already in good spot. I don't know anything about Mileena grave robber variation, but she does not need better range on her B1 or faster B2. Also what exactly would change if F234 would be a mid - low - oh? You will hit someone who does not how to block it it won't make Kitana any better.

She does need only one thing imo. I will sound like broken record but hitting B231 when someone just started jumping should not be punishable. I should not be punished for hitting somebody. I don't know how to handle this exactly. Either make B23 a separate string or adjust hitbox so B231 would not whiff after first hit. Because now I just do B2 in neutral, because I am scared that I get punished for hitting someone with B231.

Besides that B231434 whiffs randomly on blocking oponnents should be fixed - but it's hardly a buff but universal hitbox fix that whole cast needs.

If I was super buff wish happy I would demand throw krushing blow. Not that she is in desperate need of one but because other characters have it and I don't know why exactly she does not
 
John_NX

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
gitblame said:
She's already in good spot. I don't know anything about Mileena grave robber variation, but she does not need better range on her B1 or faster B2. Also what exactly would change if F234 would be a mid - low - oh? You will hit someone who does not how to block it it won't make Kitana any better.

She does need only one thing imo. I will sound like broken record but hitting B231 when someone just started jumping should not be punishable. I should not be punished for hitting somebody. I don't know how to handle this exactly. Either make B23 a separate string or adjust hitbox so B231 would not whiff after first hit. Because now I just do B2 in neutral, because I am scared that I get punished for hitting someone with B231.

Besides that B231434 whiffs randomly on blocking oponnents should be fixed - but it's hardly a buff but universal hitbox fix that whole cast needs.

If I was super buff wish happy I would demand throw krushing blow. Not that she is in desperate need of one but because other characters have it and I don't know why exactly she does not
Click to expand...
That's also something else I agree on and yes kitana is an okay character at the moment but as many others have stated she's hard to beat good opponents with and I find other characters to have much better neutral and zoning capabilities than her.
 
gitblame

gitblame

Apprentice
I think some characters are just easier to be good at faster than Kitana. Also we all probably play her wrong. Like the best Kitana player is Semiij and he plays her nothing like you would expect from Kitana player. Semiij rushes his oponents down and mostly plays around her glorious J2. Also he is constantly super agressive and he tries to remain initiaive in a matchup no matter what. It's hard to execute beacause it's really easy to get carried away and made really bad decisions, since she does not have tools that ensure her pressure over and over.
 
Rozalin1780

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
gitblame said:
She does need only one thing imo. I will sound like broken record but hitting B231 when someone just started jumping should not be punishable. I should not be punished for hitting somebody. I don't know how to handle this exactly. Either make B23 a separate string or adjust hitbox so B231 would not whiff after first hit. Because now I just do B2 in neutral, because I am scared that I get punished for hitting someone with B231.
Click to expand...
Adjusting hitboxes and/or adjusting the pushback/float while airborne from B2 so that the string connects on airborne opponents would be ideal. Making B23 a separate string only addresses part of the issue -- that you can be punished -- while ignoring the loss of reward for landing the hit.

As for buffs, she doesn't need buffs. More like fixes in general. I doubt she will get many changes outside of:

  • Normalizing Edenian Razors on block regardless of which side you're on.
  • Rework Gutted's krushing blow requirement.
  • Increase the buff duration of Royal Protection.
  • Increase the forward hitbox of U2 so that it does not whiff at point-blank range.
 
D

DaBlueBonnet

Noob
Only think I wish they would buff is her anti air wake up. Far to many times, I have to wait for the enemy to be dead in my face with a jump in attack for my wake up to actually connect.

I’m sure I will get laughed at for my rage but it is what it is lol. I made this video and posted it on Gamefaqs and a lot of people seem to be on my side.

 
C

ChaseRLewis

Noob
Hm, been grinding Kitana last couple weeks. Mained her in 9 and played her a lot near end of XL.

Feel her kit is a bit lacking at this time. Unreliable normals and strings (especially if they try to jump out of pressure), b34 can't combo in most situations with stock abilities, float followup is not an overhead, massive fan recovery, projectile absorb being worst move in game, u2 reversal having basically negative range, etc.

She definitely got overly nerfed. If she had an infinite there has to have been a better way to fix it then butchering her fan game. Without moves like low fan or Edenian Twist she can't even combo off b34 midscreen and can't even hit fan lift after it in the corner. You can beat people unwilling to block, but characters like Scorpion and Jade just butcher her neutral game to the point the only 'winning play' is sit there and hope they just impatiently kill themselves or run into b231's.

List of changes.
  • b1 should be 11 or 12 frames so d3 -> b1 can't be jumped on hit.
  • u2 reversal needs at least double the horizontal range (that's probably an understatement).
- improved hitbox on b14 kicks so they hit a little higher so when I hit someone in the air as they are rising the second kick doesn't sometimes drop ...
  • Enhanced Fan is a safe mid and gives a combo in the corner.
  • Slightly less recovery on Fan, First combo hit of fan should have much more hit stun like it used too. Projectile trades would be more favorable and she would deal more damage due to combo extensions.
  • Projectile Parry should work until you get knocked down, next crushing blow, or a fan hits. Maybe when fan hits you get a combo like old fan? ... something
Fun Stuff
- Add a tourney legal variation with Edenian Twist and Ground use of Edenian Twist. This gives her a lot of confirmability off moves she can't normally do anything off of. Feel like her moveset was expecting this move ... but she can't use it in tourney ...
 
DavesHotnJuicy

DavesHotnJuicy

jmack_215
Anybody notice that the amplified hit of square wave is an overhead? Why would it matter though since you can’t do it on block lol. I could be making that up but I think I did see that in practice
 
Madog32

Madog32

PSN: ImaGiveItToUBaby
I think it's intentional. And I think it only matters because in specific situations the amped hit could come out even if the first hit doesn't actually combo, like the opponent having armor for the first hit
 
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