Kitana General Discussion

[DavesHotnJuicy]

I think it's intentional. And I think it only matters because in specific situations the amped hit could come out even if the first hit doesn't actually combo, like the opponent having armor for the first hit

Never thought about it, makes sense though!

 

[Rozalin1780]

Hm, been grinding Kitana last couple weeks. Mained her in 9 and played her a lot near end of XL.

Feel her kit is a bit lacking at this time. Unreliable normals and strings (especially if they try to jump out of pressure), b34 can't combo in most situations with stock abilities, float followup is not an overhead, massive fan recovery, projectile absorb being worst move in game, u2 reversal having basically negative range, etc.

She definitely got overly nerfed. If she had an infinite there has to have been a better way to fix it then butchering her fan game. Without moves like low fan or Edenian Twist she can't even combo off b34 midscreen and can't even hit fan lift after it in the corner. You can beat people unwilling to block, but characters like Scorpion and Jade just butcher her neutral game to the point the only 'winning play' is sit there and hope they just impatiently kill themselves or run into b231's.

List of changes.

• b1 should be 11 or 12 frames so d3 -> b1 can't be jumped on hit.
• u2 reversal needs at least double the horizontal range (that's probably an understatement).

- improved hitbox on b14 kicks so they hit a little higher so when I hit someone in the air as they are rising the second kick doesn't sometimes drop ...

• Enhanced Fan is a safe mid and gives a combo in the corner.
• Slightly less recovery on Fan, First combo hit of fan should have much more hit stun like it used too. Projectile trades would be more favorable and she would deal more damage due to combo extensions.
• Projectile Parry should work until you get knocked down, next crushing blow, or a fan hits. Maybe when fan hits you get a combo like old fan? ... something

Fun Stuff
- Add a tourney legal variation with Edenian Twist and Ground use of Edenian Twist. This gives her a lot of confirmability off moves she can't normally do anything off of. Feel like her moveset was expecting this move ... but she can't use it in tourney ...

Fairly certain you can jail with 12 after a d3 on hit, so making the b1 mid faster wouldn’t matter much for this particular purpose.

Doubling the horizontal range of U2 wouldn’t matter either since currently that range is 0.

But yeah, pretty much everything I agree with, with only a slight grievance with the first point.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of every character in the game and have my own ideas that everyone wouldn't mind for a balance patch.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

Fairly certain you can jail with 12 after a d3 on hit, so making the b1 mid faster wouldn’t matter much for this particular purpose.

Doubling the horizontal range of U2 wouldn’t matter either since currently that range is 0.

But yeah, pretty much everything I agree with, with only a slight grievance with the first point.

Hm, I might should do more 12 after a d3 on hit. I have been using a lot of b1 when I'm plus at that range so they can't duck but if it jails 12 might be better.

Thx, I'm still working on some stuff. Have ok fundamentals from playing fighting games, but got a lot more MK11 to learn.


Also a lot of people last couple of days have been escaping my square wave enhance after taking the square wave to get a full combo punish on her. If they have 2 meters you really shouldn't use square wave enhanced in combos ...

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

I know J2 is meant for air-air and fan-lift but I'm trying to follow a combo guide that starts with it and follows up with B14. Does anyone have any tips on geting J2 to connect on grounded opponents?

 

[Davidmechaly]

I think some characters are just easier to be good at faster than Kitana. Also we all probably play her wrong. Like the best Kitana player is Semiij and he plays her nothing like you would expect from Kitana player. Semiij rushes his oponents down and mostly plays around her glorious J2. Also he is constantly super agressive and he tries to remain initiaive in a matchup no matter what. It's hard to execute beacause it's really easy to get carried away and made really bad decisions, since she does not have tools that ensure her pressure over and over.

Honestly, a lot videos on YouTube are saying she's a zoner, but she very clearly isn't. Like shes got the fans that are easy to avoid and Square Wave that hits from a distance but again, reaction is easy. Having said that her Oki game is fire and while i'm not the best player at all, keeping up the pressure on wake up is never a big issue. She certainly rushes down alot better than she zones. I don't know, my two cents.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

So I found something veerry interesting.

B2 blocked standing is 0 on block but if they block it crouching, you're +1.

Yeah and sometimes it’s +2 at max range

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Also I don’t think she needs ANYTHING! Like maybe MB Fan toss being a mid and even then I could live without this change.

Of course I would like some of her hitbox adjusted like b231 whiffing against some characters on the 3rd hit, b231434’s kicks whiffing randomly and leaving he punisheable and something to make b231 not be free against jumps, as some people already said, it’s annoying having to do nothing but b2 because of the fear of getting punished for hitting someone.

Other than this I think she is perfect balance wise, like I feel I can hold my own against everyone, of course she has losing match-ups but she is fairly well balanced and honest. I am extremely happy about where she stands right now.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Honest question about Kitana's bnbs. I commonly see starter~lift, ji2, ji2, 12/b13~ender. For example, Semij seems to do B231~lift, ji2, ji2, 12~exSqaure wave. What I don't understand, is that starter~lift, ji3, dash, F222 seems to be wayyy easier/more consistant and actually does more damage than most ji2 combos.

B231~lift, ji3 dash F222 does 26.3% and the Semij combo does 27.1% for a bar and without bar it is less than the F222 combo. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing so many Kitanas do double ji2 combos when ji3 F222 seems better in just about every way. What am I missing?

B231~lift, ji2, ji2, b14~square wave is 26.33% and is way less consistent.

Some people already talked about the positioning thing which is key. However when I hit b231 and I want to go for a quick execution krushing blow ender I do b231~fan lift j3 f2~quick execution since it does more damage (only works off b231 tho)

AND honestly the main reason why I stopped using f2222 as much is because the opponent can easily breakaway mid f2222 animation and literally punish you as he stands up so it’s dangerous while with j2 j2 you can just react to them breaking away and even get oki going on.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Also I don’t think she needs ANYTHING! Like maybe MB Fan toss being a mid and even then I could live without this change.

Of course I would like some of her hitbox adjusted like b231 whiffing against some characters on the 3rd hit, b231434’s kicks whiffing randomly and leaving he punisheable and something to make b231 not be free against jumps, as some people already said, it’s annoying having to do nothing but b2 because of the fear of getting punished for hitting someone.

Other than this I think she is perfect balance wise, like I feel I can hold my own against everyone, of course she has losing match-ups but she is fairly well balanced and honest. I am extremely happy about where she stands right now.

Flawless block U2 hitbox increased. That's all i want.

 

[DarksydeDash]

and her parry to be better

 

[ChaseRLewis]

I mean between what you all want and what I hear everyone else wanting is almost the same. Only thing others have said is they want fan to be better like it used to be (maybe not as good but at least not the average to slightly below average projectile it is now).

 

[wndrboy2k3]

One thing I find to be frustrating is that characters who have 50/50s all day long, have throw Fatal Blows. But Kitana who has a hell of a time opening people up doesn't have one. I think it would be good for her kit if she had one that would combo.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

Her FB's could definitely use some work. Square wave FB is pretty stupid, who whiff punishes with square wave when you could hit b2 for a whiff punish? Guess it is good vs Scorpion spear in neutral ... but that's it. Honestly, outside df2 fatal blow I rarely hit any of her fatal blows.

Kinda wish her enhanced projectile had a FB like Sonya's. She's supposed to be a mid-range footsie character with good conversions from fan (or she typically is that). Having FB's that play to that gameplan imo would make more sense for her imo.

 

[Rozalin1780]

Kitana doesn’t have a throw KB because it is so easy to get throws in by staggering your strings.

D2 KB yeilds 46% if quick execution KB is also available, and given that Kitana can low profile or outright duck attacks that most characters cannot, it is a semi-reliable source of damage — especially after your opponent starts trying to D2 your throw attempts.

Quick execution KB is usable on demand. Nuff said.

B231d2 KB, while not fantastic, can still catch people who are A: don’t know the string, typically blocked low, can end in an overhead, or B: pressing buttons after B231.

Square wave KB is situational but not useless. You can land this after blocking vs Scorpion’s spear, Erron Black and Frost’s fatal blow, catch Jade tossing air glaives or edenian spark (square wave travels over edenian spark) and so on.

The only one needing adjustments is the KB from gutted. Only way you’re landing that is if the opponent afk’s.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

If they made Square Wave work as a punish and removed the distance requirement or relaxed it a bit I'd probably be ok with it. It is a useful punish just feel the spacing requirement is a bit too strict.

 

[DavesHotnJuicy]

If they made Square Wave work as a punish and removed the distance requirement or relaxed it a bit I'd probably be ok with it. It is a useful punish just feel the spacing requirement is a bit too strict.

I feel like I hit square wave KB more than the b231d2 kB at this point but the spacing is a little tough. I guess if you stagger b231 enough you can condition your opponent to try and poke after to get the b231 kb.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Yeah, her Krushing Blows are actually ok imo. Quick execution is her best one obviously but b1142 is amazing to get good unbreakable damage, especially if you have a lifelead and want to lame people out afterwards.

Square boost is only good against Scorpion, Cetrion, Skarlet... these are the characters that I pretty much always land the square boost KB agaisnt but I’m on with that.

And the b231D2 one takes a lot of conditioning but you can still land it.

 

[DarksydeDash]

MB fan toss blocked beyond midscreen is plus so you frame trap with ass.

Of course they actually have block BOTH fans lmao

 

[DarksydeDash]

How do you guys deal with people delaying wakeups? I d3 then forward dash twice and check with B1 but I'm curious what you all do.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

How do you guys deal with people delaying wakeups? I d3 then forward dash twice and check with B1 but I'm curious what you all do.

I usually go for safe jump set-ups off MB square boost all the time so if I see they delayed their wake up I usually do the empty jump into either d3, B1 or grab, most people get hit by he d3 expecting an overhead kick so you get + frames on hit.

After any other ender I just walk into a meaty B1 or grab. If they get too predictable with it I literally just walk back a little into a jump

 

[StormGoddess]

 

[dph1990]

Having mained her exclusively since launch one of the biggest things I wish they’d do is completely remove the Ground War ability so it’s just always possible to do Square Wave on the ground, and add in a different ability for Fan-Fare. I’m playing around with low fan toss in customs and (correct me if I’m wrong!) it doesn’t feel broken to me, and that would massively increase her zoning abilities. If Liu/Jade/Skarlet etc get low fireballs in their ranked variations, why can’t we?! It’s probably asking for too much but that + amplified fan toss being reverted to a mid and I’d be beyond happy with her.

Also agree U2 wake up/flawless block needs serious hit box increase, it’s really not great at the minute.

 

[DarksydeDash]

So forgive my scrubby but I got tired of dealing with Erron Black because imo that MU is 3-7. I pulled out Cassie and am now a demi god in KL.

Unbelievable..

 

[Hacenit]