Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

[Konqrr]

explain please

You can figure it out... if not, then oh well. I don't want it to get patched out or anything (even though it would be an extremely easy fix).

If they did patch it out... I would be extremely pissed because most, if not all, gadget characters have infinites or pseudo infinites with various corner interactables. This is the first one that I know of that an acro can use like this.

 

[1man3letters]

You can figure it out... if not, then oh well. I don't want it to get patched out or anything (even though it would be an extremely easy fix).

If they did patch it out... I would be extremely pissed because most, if not all, gadget characters have infinites or pseudo infinites with various corner interactables. This is the first one that I know of that an acro can use like this.

hmmm,ill have a look then, but when i find it myself im sending it to paulo (jk)

yea scorpion has a near infin on the batcave,only super gets you out, thats closest gadget like arco loop i knew off

 

[xKhaoTik]

OK I just got done playing a very long set with an amazing flash player in my scene and decided to give my thoughts on the match after the patch.

Its pretty much still the same. I didnt even notice the damage Nerf because i was still getting hit by 57% midscreen combos lol. The only major difference is the d2 Nerf. Its -11 now and can be full combo punished. D1 and 1 doesn't work for some reason but 22 works just fine. Just be wary of the block stun from d2.

Another thing I noticed was the last hit of b22f2 whiffs on frost if she is crouching, leaving him open for a 111 punish.

Other possible things that may have not been known (I knew them lol) are:

MB headbutt must be crouched in order to punish. 111 works just fine
F213 can be interrupted. Block the first two hits standing, then crouch. It whiffs and can be punished by 111.
D2 works fine against flash's j2. At the worst situations, it'll trade and she can still follow up with slide.
D12 sonic pound gets interrupted by d2.
DO NOT anti air with super. Flash stomps that shit out lmao
D123 is punishable by d1 slide


Zoning is pretty difficult in the MU because of how insanely fast his forward dash is. RM also ducks daggers as well. If he does his phase to avoid daggers, you can spike him. But other than that, flash is getting in without too much trouble.

Upclose, its pretty scary. D1 and f2 are very good tools and both lead Into major damage on hit. Parry works a bit but d1 eliminates it. Push blocking is recommended IMO.

Overall, I'd say its 5-5. She has the tools and the hitbox to deal with a lot of his shit, and punishes a lot of his options as well. He annoys her with d1/f2 mixups and kinda laughs at her zoning.

WITNESS thoughts?

 

[Law Hero]

I think Frost vs. Flash is my favorite match to play.

A buddy of mine mains the Flash and those are probably the most intense matches I've had.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I think Frost vs. Flash is my favorite match to play.

A buddy of mine mains the Flash and those are probably the most intense matches I've had.

I hate fighting flash lol.

But my favorite MU is aquaman by far. I'm starting to like the BA mu now too lol.

 

[Law Hero]

I hate fighting flash lol.

But my favorite MU is aquaman by far. I'm starting to like the BA mu now too lol.

Oh man, we are complete opposites. lol

I know Aquaman is supposed to be a good match for Frost, but my brother bodies me with Aquaman. With the Flash, it just feels like we each have an answer for just about everything the other does, so coming out on top or making a good read feels good. And what about the BA match are you starting to like? Jumping over lightning for full combo now?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Oh man, we are complete opposites. lol

I know Aquaman is supposed to be a good match for Frost, but my brother bodies me with Aquaman. With the Flash, it just feels like we each have an answer for just about everything the other does, so coming out on top or making a good read feels good. And what about the BA match are you starting to like? Jumping over lightning for full combo now?

Yes I LOVE jumping lightning lol. It feels soooooooo good.

 

[WITNESS]

OK I just got done playing a very long set with an amazing flash player in my scene and decided to give my thoughts on the match after the patch.

Its pretty much still the same. I didnt even notice the damage Nerf because i was still getting hit by 57% midscreen combos lol. The only major difference is the d2 Nerf. Its -11 now and can be full combo punished. D1 and 1 doesn't work for some reason but 22 works just fine. Just be wary of the block stun from d2.

Another thing I noticed was the last hit of b22f2 whiffs on frost if she is crouching, leaving him open for a 111 punish.

Other possible things that may have not been known (I knew them lol) are:

MB headbutt must be crouched in order to punish. 111 works just fine
F213 can be interrupted. Block the first two hits standing, then crouch. It whiffs and can be punished by 111.
D2 works fine against flash's j2. At the worst situations, it'll trade and she can still follow up with slide.
D12 sonic pound gets interrupted by d2.
DO NOT anti air with super. Flash stomps that shit out lmao
D123 is punishable by d1 slide


Zoning is pretty difficult in the MU because of how insanely fast his forward dash is. RM also ducks daggers as well. If he does his phase to avoid daggers, you can spike him. But other than that, flash is getting in without too much trouble.

Upclose, its pretty scary. D1 and f2 are very good tools and both lead Into major damage on hit. Parry works a bit but d1 eliminates it. Push blocking is recommended IMO.

Overall, I'd say its 5-5. She has the tools and the hitbox to deal with a lot of his shit, and punishes a lot of his options as well. He annoys her with d1/f2 mixups and kinda laughs at her zoning.

WITNESS thoughts?

Is it safe to say that i really nvr get to play a KF player at ur lvl? lol But anyway I still think its 5-5. my d2 nerf is the only thing i have to get use too. But if it is block i can cancel into RMS making it safe. Ur d2, i feel is the biggest threat i have to worry about i cant jump in or press buttons. I feel that i shut you down in the corner most of the time. U were making alot of my attacks whiff i just hav to shorten the string and do my RMS cancel more. Like you said dont even try to zone me lol.

Overall this MU is one big guessing game for KF and flash. If i mess up then iam put in ur mixup game, if you mess up eat one big combo and put in a 50/50 situation

 

[Konqrr]

xKhaoTik Don't forget that blocking the first two hits of f21 standing then crouching makes the last of it whiff and you can punish with 111

 

[xKhaoTik]

xKhaoTik Don't forget that blocking the first two hits of f21 standing then crouching makes the last of it whiff and you can punish with 111

I mentioned that lol

 

[Konqrr]

I mentioned that lol

Skimming is bad... >_>

 

[Rickyraws]

I as well love fighting Flash. Flash and Aquaman both. However if there's a MU that can make me rage it is also the Flash. Oh I got the first hit of the match? Lol I'll take mai free 50% nao pls. I find the matches to be intense, but still very very manageable, with me sometimes perfecting the Flash players I spar with if they don't get a chance to use his trait or commit to a string without anticipating my backdash. Then they may end up doing the same to me the next match. Mostly online warriors, though- which may be a good thing. Seeing the damage I'm forced to eat just because you managed to catch me and use trait, and then sitting next to me IRL is admittedly very hazardous to your health. Trait will not save you.

 

[trustinme]

that's a very nice write up of the flash matchup khaotik.i was unaware of a few of the situations you mentioned I could punish flash for so thanks for that,ill take note.

 

[TheSpore]

WITNESS & xKhaoTik: I play against Witness' Flash all the time and when it comes to zoning or interactibles I just don't even bother anymore, he is gonn get in on you no matter how hard you try to keep him out, push block is gonna be your best friend.

 

[ApocaLips]

One of the nice things about KF vs. Flash is that she can punish his LC and MBLC with d2 with the nearly the same timing (exactly the same timing?) - no guessing whether he'll MB or not if you read a LC. Makes life easier.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Yo let's talk Zatanna.

I was playing Mr. Mileena yesterday, and man, his Zatanna is incredible lol.

First off, starting the MU with slide is a bad idea because Mr mil was doing a move that stuffed a slide, linked into mb kicks and set me up for a reset. He was pretty good with the zoning too, but I was able to counter it with spike a majority of the time. His trait setups were very smart as well, usually using it after a full screen knockdown, followed up with a mb fireball. Her trait is kinda useless in the MU tho because of spike, but I had no idea her lightning cage has armor. He was also very good at psyching me out with levitate -> teleport shenanigans, especially with smoke & mirrors active.

The full screen battle probably favors frost. Spike is a pain for zatanna and if she teleports, she's getting punished with111 everytime unless she MBs it. Upclose, I'd say frost wins that as well. Zatanna is pretty slow and doesn't have any insane mixups like frost, and some of her main pressure tools can be parried or punished on block.

All in all, I'd say its 6-4 frost. Zatanna has tons and tons of amazing tools, but frost has the tools to deal with them.

Thoughts?

 

[Konqrr]

Good writeup. I feel that as the game progresses, this matchup will be more annoying. Iceberg is very good in this matchup.

Does her teleport get her out of her trait? If so, that could be a problem unless Iceberg tracks lol

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Yo let's talk Zatanna.

I was playing Mr. Mileena yesterday, and man, his Zatanna is incredible lol.

First off, starting the MU with slide is a bad idea because Mr mil was doing a move that stuffed a slide, linked into mb kicks and set me up for a reset. He was pretty good with the zoning too, but I was able to counter it with spike a majority of the time. His trait setups were very smart as well, usually using it after a full screen knockdown, followed up with a mb fireball. Her trait is kinda useless in the MU tho because of spike, but I had no idea her lightning cage has armor. He was also very good at psyching me out with levitate -> teleport shenanigans, especially with smoke & mirrors active.

The full screen battle probably favors frost. Spike is a pain for zatanna and if she teleports, she's getting punished with111 everytime unless she MBs it. Upclose, I'd say frost wins that as well. Zatanna is pretty slow and doesn't have any insane mixups like frost, and some of her main pressure tools can be parried or punished on block.

All in all, I'd say its 6-4 frost. Zatanna has tons and tons of amazing tools, but frost has the tools to deal with them.

Thoughts?

Thanks Qt

Yeah, her trait is useless unless I can pair it up with a fast fireball or a knockdown in a combo, or ex trance into fireball for safety.

I think her EX overhead is like +9? on block, so it's even more so + from full screen on block, so I think that grants me a free teleport. It might be like +17 or something.

I love doing levitate because it avoids iceberg, and frost can't do any normal attacks but get in, and when she does i can D J1 cancel it or teleport away. She has to be kinda high for the daggers to miss.

Zatannas standing 3 is good to react to slide, but it's hard.
Zatanna is just wayyyy too slow to keep up and she can't punish blocked icebergs.

 

[Rickyraws]

Thanks Qt

Yeah, her trait is useless unless I can pair it up with a fast fireball or a knockdown in a combo, or ex trance into fireball for safety.

I think her EX overhead is like +9? on block, so it's even more so + from full screen on block, so I think that grants me a free teleport. It might be like +17 or something.

I love doing levitate because it avoids iceberg, and frost can't do any normal attacks but get in, and when she does i can D J1 cancel it or teleport away. She has to be kinda high for the daggers to miss.

Zatannas standing 3 is good to react to slide, but it's hard.
Zatanna is just wayyyy too slow to keep up and she can't punish blocked icebergs.

Haven't checked the frame data since, but is her standing 3 still 5 frames? That's her clap right? Wouldn't it make her able to punish just about anything with 3xxlowkicks / mblowkicks to make it safe?

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Haven't checked the frame data since, but is her standing 3 still 5 frames? That's her clap right? Wouldn't it make her able to punish just about anything with 3xxlowkicks / mblowkicks to make it safe?

No, her Standing 3 was always 13 frames.
Her standing 1 is 5 frames, but I believe it to b 7 frames.

 

[Rickyraws]

No, her Standing 3 was always 13 frames.
Her standing 1 is 5 frames, but I believe it to b 7 frames.

Yeah standing 1...or what ever it was that was listed as 5 frames is what I meant. The clap.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Yeah standing 1...or what ever it was that was listed as 5 frames is what I meant. The clap.

No, the clap like, long move is standing 3.

 

[Rickyraws]

No, the clap like, long move is standing 3.

I see. I figured as much. Thanks.

Also, what is this?

Thanks Qt

Qt?

....."Cutie?"

Your attempts to seduce our members will not work here, miscreant. None of us will leave Killer Frost especially for Zatanna of all things.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I see. I figured as much. Thanks.

Also, what is this?


Qt?

....."Cutie?"

Your attempts to seduce our members will not work here, miscreant. None of us will leave Killer Frost especially for Zatanna of all things.

Yup, he's a qt

 

[Konqrr]

I think her EX overhead is like +9? on block, so it's even more so + from full screen on block, so I think that grants me a free teleport. It might be like +17 or something.

EX overhead? what is this?