Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

[xKhaoTik]

I still charge my trait, but I don't really do trait cancels anymore. I haven't found much use to it since the Nerf. Sometimes I still catch myself doing 1114 lol.

F23 is so non existent to me lol. But after reading your write up on it, I may just start messing around with it. Could come into some good use.

 

[Rickyraws]

Selina is my girl.

We'll see about that. I am capable of making an offer you can't refuse.

 

[16 Bit]

I still use Killer Frost in casuals occasionally.....to help my teammates beat her.

 

[Rickyraws]

I still use Killer Frost in casuals occasionally.....to help my teammates beat her.

!
..Y...you....you wouldn't.....

.....tr-t-----traitor......

 

[16 Bit]

 

[Rickyraws]

You win. I will stop trying to convince you.

I'm sure I'll see you in hell

 

[RunwayMafia]

Selina is my girl.

You should just main both.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Whats wrong with using 2 characters >.> ?

Having different characters keeps the game fresh to me, using 1 character the whole time gets stale so I try to main 2-3 characters with different styles to keep things interesting, and thankfully HG/Raven/KF are 3 completely different styles and they cover each other's bad matchups pretty well.

 

[ApocaLips]

I hate to be a party pooper, but these f23 setups look kinda bad. The problem is that f2 is 20-something frame startup, so if you're going to use it in the neutral you could have just used f3/b1 for a faster and more rewarding 50/50. Off of a setup, you're still better off with the f3/b1 mixup because it has higher reward.

If it has any value, my guess is due to the hard knockdown up close, although it has shit advantage. Sweep combo enders usually make more sense in most cases.

Have you guys tried the ambiguous neutral jump crossups after a hard knockdown ala Grundy? I looked into them and they can actually be really tricky - you can vary the timing of a j3 to hit left/right, and you can use j2 instead to alter the timing even more. Basic setup there is:

F3/b1u3, u3, u3, f112~slide, sweep, dash, nj3.

 

[16 Bit]

Whats wrong with using 2 characters >.> ?

Having different characters keeps the game fresh to me, using 1 character the whole time gets stale so I try to main 2-3 characters with different styles to keep things interesting, and thankfully HG/Raven/KF are 3 completely different styles and they cover each other's bad matchups pretty well.

Nothing wrong with it if that's your thing. Personally I enjoy being a character specialist. Once I find my main I become totally engrossed.

 

[Rickyraws]

I hate to be a party pooper, but these f23 setups look kinda bad. The problem is that f2 is 20-something frame startup, so if you're going to use it in the neutral you could have just used f3/b1 for a faster and more rewarding 50/50. Off of a setup, you're still better off with the f3/b1 mixup because it has higher reward.

If it has any value, my guess is due to the hard knockdown up close, although it has shit advantage. Sweep combo enders usually make more sense in most cases.

Have you guys tried the ambiguous neutral jump crossups after a hard knockdown ala Grundy? I looked into them and they can actually be really tricky - you can vary the timing of a j3 to hit left/right, and you can use j2 instead to alter the timing even more. Basic setup there is:

F3/b1u3, u3, u3, f112~slide, sweep, dash, nj3.

Thing is, only b1 combos off a jump in, not f3. Not the best set ups/ tactics, admittedly, but as I stated, it's manly for mixing up your usual shenanigans, and most effective against defensive players. At least from experience, I've yielded about a 79% success rate whenever I've attempted to mix it up using such. It's also fairly dependent on your opponent's character. You're right, though, it's not a replacement for the other mixups. Just an extra condiment.

 

[ApocaLips]

Thing is, only b1 combos off a jump in, not f3. Not the best set ups/ tactics, admittedly, but as I stated, it's manly for mixing up your usual shenanigans, and most effective against defensive players. At least from experience, I've yielded about a 79% success rate whenever I've attempted to mix it up using such. It's also fairly dependent on your opponent's character. You're right, though, it's not a replacement for the other mixups. Just an extra condiment.

You're talking about using f2 after a j2 jump in? That gives your opponent all day to interrupt if they block, and you can't hit confirm int0 the f2 so you risk getting majorly blown up for that.

As people get more used to the fact that j2s rarely have much frame advantage in injustice and you can interrupt a lot of attacks after them, I think the only viable followup will be d1 into frame traps.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Things that I've tested so far:


BA: she STILL cannot punish dive kick if done from max distance. She can now punish both versions of black magic with iaDash j2 for 40% into a reset.

GA: MB stinger is pretty ridiculous, but the parry saves her from the following mixups if they go for one

MMH: she cant jump away from overhead tele now, but she can still slide out of the way. She can actually punish it on block. Just walk and the tele gets blocked and he's open for a punish. The punish is weird tho because he is recovering behind her in the air. Its an 8f punish and the actual combo is weird : d1, 1 slide, u3x2, 22 mb grab, j2 2.

 

[RiBBz22]

Things that I've tested so far:


BA: she STILL cannot punish dive kick if done from max distance. She can now punish both versions of black magic with iaDash j2 for 40% into a reset.

GA: MB stinger is pretty ridiculous, but the parry saves her from the following mixups if they go for one

MMH: she cant jump away from overhead tele now, but she can still slide out of the way. She can actually punish it on block. Just walk and the tele gets blocked and he's open for a punish. The punish is weird tho because he is recovering behind her in the air. Its an 8f punish and the actual combo is weird : d1, 1 slide, u3x2, 22 mb grab, j2 2.

Thanks I'll have to try the MMH punish out. What is the max damage you are getting off MB f3 now lol. I wish I was home already :/

 

[xKhaoTik]

MBF3, u3x2, f113 slide, u3 dash 43%
MBF3, u3x2, 22 mb grab, j2 2 39%

 

[RiBBz22]

MBF3, u3x2, f113 slide, u3 dash 43%
MBF3, u3x2, 22 mb grab, j2 2 39%

Good, good

 

[Konqrr]

Just found a stage infinite (with meter) in the right side of the lab ^_^ Can't believe I didn't find this sooner.

 

[Konqrr]

RiBBz22 xKhaoTik ApocaLips RunwayMafia Rickyraws

Black Adam:

Boot Stomp head - Slight walk forward and 111 combo
Boot Stomp waist to head - Immediate b1 combo
Boot Stomp below waist - Go for your 50/50

MB Lightning - You can jump forward on reaction and land safely then punish with MB Iceberg for full combo

Thank you NRS ^_^

 

[RunwayMafia]

RiBBz22 xKhaoTik ApocaLips RunwayMafia Rickyraws

Black Adam:

Boot Stomp head - Slight walk forward and 111 combo
Boot Stomp waist to head - Immediate b1 combo
Boot Stomp below waist - Go for your 50/50

MB Lightning - You can jump forward on reaction and land safely then punish with MB Iceberg for full combo

Thank you NRS ^_^

Oh wow...lol. Rico Suave is so screwed...

 

[ApocaLips]

MB Lightning - You can jump forward on reaction and land safely then punish with MB Iceberg for full combo

Thank you NRS ^_^

Oh, so THAT's why lightning was able to hit aerial opponents before. Oops.

I think the punishes for boot stomp are basically the same as for deathstroke's sword flip, if that makes things easier for people.

 

[xKhaoTik]

RiBBz22 xKhaoTik ApocaLips RunwayMafia Rickyraws

Black Adam:

Boot Stomp head - Slight walk forward and 111 combo
Boot Stomp waist to head - Immediate b1 combo
Boot Stomp below waist - Go for your 50/50

MB Lightning - You can jump forward on reaction and land safely then punish with MB Iceberg for full combo

Thank you NRS ^_^

U can also land a j2 for 40% if you're close enough

Also, for the 50/50 against low dive kick, BA can't backdash it? I know slide will catch it but will f3?

 

[Konqrr]

Oh, so THAT's why lightning was able to hit aerial opponents before. Oops.

I think the punishes for boot stomp are basically the same as for deathstroke's sword flip, if that makes things easier for people.

Boot stomp punishes are NOT easy and you basically have to do the timing for the punish the same whether it's MB or not... but that sort of works as an option select because if it is a MB BS, then nothing comes out. Either way, you have to focus to do anything... We might be much better off just going for her 50/50 as the only move that does actually punish him is 15f unless he does it on our head.

U can also land a j2 for 40% if you're close enough

Also, for the 50/50 against low dive kick, BA can't backdash it?

Not slide! This is where we train them to not backdash.

SUPERMAN:

Block f23~Breath in the corner? You can jump straight up and if he does it again, you get a j2~111 that puts him in the corner and you a full combo. You have enough time to see if he does anything and if he delays and tries to anti-air you, you can air dash out.

 

[xKhaoTik]

The superman MU feels the same. Only difference is the f2 and the damage.

I've fought TONS of GA's today. The MU feel as the same too actually. MB stinger isn't that big of a deal.

The black Adam MU is the exact same thing. The only difference is the fact that she can punish his lightning now on reaction. That'sactually huge, but other than that, it still feels the same. Still can't punish DK, but at least he has to respect a 50/50 now if its blocked. Still has the ridiculous wake up and trait. It definitely doesn't feel as bad as before, but its still tough IMO.

MMH actually feels easier. Idk if it's because of the walk forward punish on tele, but for some reason, I felt really confident in the MU.

Shazam felt like the same MU.

Lobo was a weird one. Midscreen 50/50s lol. Gonna have to grind that one a bit.

Ares is another weird one too. MB tele is really good and the setups he gets from it are amazing.

BANE FELT ABSOLUTELY THE SAME! Lvl3 trait = lvl3 cool down so its basically a double edged sword.

Doomsday felt the same as well. Only difference is I had to be a bit more careful with daggers when he has a bar. That doesn't really matter tho because she still parries the mb venom, even when he's in trait.

Batman felt a little easier. It feels good spiking a whiffed b23 now and the recovery on block is a bit longer for him, but safe. The trait nerf doesn't mean much because all he needs is one bat.

Catwoman felt the same. Mb cat dash buff is nothing. Still gets punished if not done properly and still gets punishedif she does it from full screen while KF ois back walking.

Grundy felt the same.

Green lantern felt the same.

I also played the raven and aqua mu with frost, but they were basically untouched so the MUs are the same.


These are all the MUs I've played today after the patch. Just wanted to give my thoughts.

 

[Konqrr]

Still can't punish DK, but at least he has to respect a 50/50 now if its blocked.

You can punish dive kick with b1 now, but you have to do it immediately and only if you block it above the waist. You can also get a 111 punish if you block it with your head (lol)... but you may have to walk forward a tiny bit first.

Thanks for your post btw

 

[1man3letters]

Just found a stage infinite (with meter) in the right side of the lab ^_^ Can't believe I didn't find this sooner.

explain please