Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

[xKhaoTik]

Ok I think it's time that we discuss match ups for each character in the game. I think it's safe to say that we have experience against most of the cast now, and some of us have more experience than others, so I decided to make this thread for those players who need help in a particular MU.

Below is a list of every character released so far (DLC will be updated). Anyone who has any type of experience in the MU is welcome to leave a comment. Maybe there's something you figured out and we don't even know it could help us.


Aquaman: 6-4

Ares: 6-4

Bane: 6-4

Batgirl: 6-4

Batman: 5-5

Black Adam: 5-5

Cat woman: 6-4

Cyborg: 6-4 (wouldn't argue 5-5)

Deathstroke: 6-4

Doomsday: 7-3

The Flash: 5-5

Green Arrow: 5-5

Green Lantern: 5-5

Harley Quinn: 5-5

Hawk girl: 5-5

The Joker: 6-4

Killer Frost (mirror):

Lex Luthor: 6-4

Lobo: 6-4

Martian Manhunter: 4-6 (probably 5-5)

Night wing: 6-4

Raven: 6-4

Scorpion: 6-4

Shazam!: 7-3

Sinestro: 7-3

Solomon Grundy: 6-4

Superman: 6-4

Wonder Woman: 5-5

Zatanna: 6-4

Zod: 5-5

 

[Jer]

Stickied for us.

 

[Noserfatu]

Konqrr said something about not being able to punish one of Flash's moves.

I was having trouble punishing deathstroke's sword flip on block since her normals are too short.. but I was able to punish with D2, surprisingly. Perhaps D2 will work to punish on block when other normals fail in other situations.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Which flash move?

and I punish sword flip with 111 slide

 

[Konqrr]

Which flash move?

F21

Most characters can block the overhead then duck the last punch and get a full combo... Frost cannot (nor can NW).

Also... when you block f23~ice breath against Superman, you can hit him with 111~Slide if he tries it again. To be a bit safer in the event that he does not do another one (you can't react, you have to guess) and is fishing to punish you... press 11 and watch for it to hit, if it does then finish the combo with 1~slide. You can also do d1~slide as an option select (hits it comes out, whiffs it doesn't), which is a bit safer than 11 on whiff.

 

[tax]

Konqrr said something about not being able to punish one of Flash's moves.

I was having trouble punishing deathstroke's sword flip on block since her normals are too short.. but I was able to punish with D2, surprisingly. Perhaps D2 will work to punish on block when other normals fail in other situations.

hi all, first post here. d2 does seem to be frost's best punisher in quite a few situations, though the damage scaling kinda sucks. you can actually punish sword flip with slide, but you need to input the command quickly.

 

[UserJuke]

hi all, first post here. d2 does seem to be frost's best punisher in quite a few situations, though the damage scaling kinda sucks. you can actually punish sword flip with slide, but you need to input the command quickly.

Yea, I just try and bring them into the reset after a D2.

 

[AC_Jard]

any advice on how to deal with Doomsday?

 

[Konqrr]

any advice on how to deal with Doomsday?

Make him respect parry... you can also parry his dash on reaction.

Other than that, 111~4 works really well on him and if he has his trait out 111~4 will stop him cold. The only way he can punish you is to let the jabs hit.

Block right.

 

[Rosegoddess3]

I got some fantastic tips from people in response to my request for assistance against Solomon Grundy in the General Discussion. Thanks again to RiBBz22, Jeffreys, Zerosoulreaver, and BoP_Edge. I thought I’d compile their suggestions and post here, and I hope they help all of you like they've helped me

From RiBBz22:
Grundy completely blows up your slide and KF's entire footsie game with walking corpse. If you are playing a really good one who knows how to walking corpse cancel properly it can kind of deter you from doing a neutral jump to try and punish with a full combo because of the air grab. If they are not cancelling and letting the move finish all the time, then you can add neutral jumping + punishing as one means to deal with that move...

Luckily WC doesn't do a ton of damage, so you have quite a few opportunities to find other holes for a punish if one particular thing is not working. I normally try to space myself out further than full jump range and whiff punish the walking corpse on reaction after back-dashing away from it. However, when you are in this range you always have to worry about the swamp hands move since it is a low and leads to a f*** ton of damage...

In that MU, corpse honestly gives KF the biggest headache, so that should always be what you are looking to beat first off, then the MU becomes more of a standard one.

From Jeffreys:
Grundy surely beats Killer Frost, WCC negates almost everything KF does. after a meter burned WC Grundy can just go into 50/50s with a good chunk of damage and use health chain to take less damage. Killer Frosts 50/50 is the only way to keep this match even in my opinion.

From Zerosoulreaver:
Grundy is a problem for many characters it seems. Only thing that may help may be ice pillar which can be a nice tool and it may trade with hands. His grab just eats up whatever you throw at him and it's a bit hard to initiate.

I'm never sure how to approach this mach because you start a combo against his armor it's a bad look for you. You can't keep him out because he will always find a way in and really KF spacing of her ranged abilities is situational and momentary.

RiBBz22 in response to Zerosoulreaver:
Swamp hands is +1 on block I am pretty sure, correct me if I am wrong. In any case, I am pretty sure that Frost can't punish it with Iceberg. I would be scared to trade as well because if his move comes out and Frost's doesn't you are pretty much losing 50%.

From BoP_Edge:
Run away, zone with daggers and ice spikes. One he closes in to slide range check him with it occassionally, but don't throw too many cuz he can punish. Block his swamp hands low, you get free spike attempt. Watch out for EX version, you're gonna eat 50%. If he catches on to your zoning patterns, fake an ice spike with a tap of trait and throw daggers (you can mix-up your zoning vs everyone with this, its great for baiting). If you catch him in the air you can can combo into ice spike for 20% or so. Use the threat of interactables to make him hesitant to approach your zoning. Learn the spacing for walking corpse and stay out of it. That's how I play the matchup anyway.

 

[Dizz_88]

hi all, first post here. d2 does seem to be frost's best punisher in quite a few situations, though the damage scaling kinda sucks. you can actually punish sword flip with slide, but you need to input the command quickly.

You cannot punish sword flip with slide. Sword flip is -19 on block and slide is 21 frames on start up.

 

[16 Bit]

You cannot punish sword flip with slide. Sword flip is -19 on block and slide is 21 frames on start up.

Frame data on slide is wrong. It's around 15 not 21. You can punish sword flip with slide if it's a well timed reversal slide.

I use d+2 to punish sword flip. Doesn't matter if you block it standing, crouch, spacing doesn't matter. Simple and reliable punish.

 

[Rickyraws]

Frame data on slide is wrong. It's around 15 not 21. You can punish sword flip with slide if it's a well timed reversal slide.

I use d+2 to punish sword flip. Doesn't matter if you block it standing, crouch, spacing doesn't matter. Simple and reliable punish.

16 bit, I'd like to know your experiences/ how you approach a Green Lantern player. I sometimes counter pick with Raven, but I'm far more powerful with Frost, and so would like to overcome the match up inconsistencies. Sure I pull wins against GL, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it can sometimes be one sided.

I play Jailhouse a lot, and I actually haven't gone up against his GL that I remember....I've been beating him left and right and teasing him a bit more than I should, so I expect retaliation in the form of that Green mother lover soon.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I don't consider the GL match a bad MU anymore. Just gotta be patient

 

[xenogorgeous]

Nightwing is a hard matchup to KF .... too much footsie to deal with in the middle to short range zone, and his zoning from full screen is superior to the one KF has ....

 

[tax]

Nightwing is a hard matchup to KF .... too much footsie to deal with in the middle to short range zone, and his zoning from full screen is superior to the one KF has ....

KF's parries allow her to overcome most of nightwing's frame traps, thankfully. but yes his zoning game is a pain, which is why i always try to stay close as much as possible.

 

[Rickyraws]

I don't consider the GL match a bad MU anymore. Just gotta be patient

I'm starting to think the same thing, but can you elaborate on your end?

Personally, for me it's just the Jailhouse Lanterns with their hard knockdown., low to ground turbine 50/50s that can get the best of me. Perfect Legend employs the same thing, but other than that it's not that bad.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I'm starting to think the same thing, but can you elaborate on your end?

Personally, for me it's just the Jailhouse Lanterns with their hard knockdown., low to ground turbine 50/50s that can get the best of me. Perfect Legend employs the same thing, but other than that it's not that bad.

Just have to play EXTREMELY patient. IMO, It's a life lead battle and is based on who can hold it longer. If she has the life lead, he can't really do too much zoning. You can Just back walk his air projectile and duck his ground one. He needs meter to attack you from full screen, so if you block that, thats a loss on his part. Lots of GL's like to do the air turbine to close space. That's a combo punish. She can throw daggers to keep some space and make him commit to coming in, but her zoning is nothing compared to his.

If he has the life lead, she had to come to him and He's much better at zoning than she is. Just patiently work your way in WITHOUT JUMPING. Block everything correctly and then your in. If you time it correctly, you can hit him with daggers as he is falling down from his air projectile (if it missed). If you have good reactions, you can slide under his ground projectile.


Upclose, I think Kf has the advantage. B1 is suicide for him because of the parry and B1 by itself can be punished with d1slide. Lift gets blown up and I think a blocked turbine is punishable too. She can open him up with her frame traps and mixups. I haven't really found anything to deal with his pressure when he ends blockstrings with machine gun and It's so annoying.

So in short, he zones much better, but she wins Upclose. DO NOT JUMP


Also, IF she does have bad MUs, I personally think they are Black Adam and Hawkgirl. Maybe Supes too.

 

[Rickyraws]

Black Adam's DEFINITELY a bad MU, 'specially the ones that play ''aerial keep away", and "so you think you can dive kick" all day long. Dive kick is beat by most jump in attacks universally, but when he keeps running away, you're forced to respect it if he uses his lightning or clouds dude to BIG damage potential from full screen if he baits you.


However, I've still beaten some reaaaally good BAs who didn't resort to those tactics. Block low afar, block high up close and reset him all day err day for best results.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Black Adam's DEFINITELY a bad MU, 'specially the ones that play ''aerial keep away", and "so you think you can dive kick" all day long. Dive kick is beat by most jump in attacks universally, but when he keeps running away, you're forced to respect it if he uses his lightning or clouds dude to BIG damage potential from full screen if he baits you.


However, I've still beaten some reaaaally good BAs who didn't resort to those tactics. Block low afar, block high up close and reset him all day err day for best results.

If there is one MU that I know, It's BA. I played that My hardcore since release and definitely ran that match slot at Ect. IT's bad for sure, but not terrible. I'd say 6-4.


she has no choice but to come to him. Jumping forward/air dashing is out of the question because of DK and lightning. She had to stay grounded while approaching him. After you block his lightning, dash up and be prepared to block another lightning or DK. If he does MB lightning, you must respect the follow up lightning. Black magic gets blown up anywhere on the screen, so be prepared to punish that when he Throws it out. Once you get in, RUSH HIM DOWN. Use the frame traps hardcore to set you the mixups or MB parry. You have to do as much damage as you can before BA sends you away.

I don't fear BA Upclose at all. His trait is good only when he hits you and he has no lows. His frame traps are pretty good, but nothing devastating and parry comes in handy.

If you have good reactions, you can MBf3 his DK on reaction, or you can Just jump back and hit him as he lands. You can also jump right when he is about to do MB lightning, and blow him you when you land .

 

[-LD50-]

If I block BAs dive kick is there any real way to punish him? granted im new to fighters but every time i actually block one he just gets away and resumes the good old divekick sesh.

edit:

Derp just read this

If you have good reactions, you can MBf3 his DK on reaction, or you can Just jump back and hit him as he lands. You can also jump right when he is about to do MB lightning, and blow him you when you land .

I'll try the mb f3 idea. I also hadn't thought of jumping back, that sounds tricky but I'll give it a go.

His DK needs to be unsafe on block 100% of the time -.-

 

[RiBBz22]

F21

Most characters can block the overhead then duck the last punch and get a full combo... Frost cannot (nor can NW).

Also... when you block f23~ice breath against Superman, you can hit him with 111~Slide if he tries it again. To be a bit safer in the event that he does not do another one (you can't react, you have to guess) and is fishing to punish you... press 11 and watch for it to hit, if it does then finish the combo with 1~slide. You can also do d1~slide as an option select (hits it comes out, whiffs it doesn't), which is a bit safer than 11 on whiff.

Honestly I just like to parry after that string because once you full combo a d1 or another f2 after a block string with MB parry they start going right to their lows which pretty much saves you from his pressure game.

 

[RiBBz22]

If there is one MU that I know, It's BA. I played that My hardcore since release and definitely ran that match slot at Ect. IT's bad for sure, but not terrible. I'd say 6-4.


she has no choice but to come to him. Jumping forward/air dashing is out of the question because of DK and lightning. She had to stay grounded while approaching him. After you block his lightning, dash up and be prepared to block another lightning or DK. If he does MB lightning, you must respect the follow up lightning. Black magic gets blown up anywhere on the screen, so be prepared to punish that when he Throws it out. Once you get in, RUSH HIM DOWN. Use the frame traps hardcore to set you the mixups or MB parry. You have to do as much damage as you can before BA sends you away.

I don't fear BA Upclose at all. His trait is good only when he hits you and he has no lows. His frame traps are pretty good, but nothing devastating and parry comes in handy.

If you have good reactions, you can MBf3 his DK on reaction, or you can Just jump back and hit him as he lands. You can also jump right when he is about to do MB lightning, and blow him you when you land .

I think this is probably the hardest MU in the game with Frost at the moment. I am glad you have a lot of experience with it and only think it is 6-4. I have just played xsmokex's and it is really good. I should play more against him soon.

 

[Rickyraws]

What would you say are her best frame traps? Not able to test this out yet, but I was watching some footage of FLux against a batman...maybe JRosa's? Anyway, he blocked BM's J2 and which ever follow up string he did, then immediately 111'd and either hit or forced BM to block and be in the 50/50 after 1,1,1,4

This happened in numerous matches but Batman never jumped after his blocked strings. Would he have been hit by 111 if he tried? Seemed hella disadvantageous for BM to always be put in a 50/50. Did the guy just chose not to jump over Frost? Or was it a legit frame trap?

 

[xKhaoTik]

What wosay are her best frame traps? Not able to test this out yet, but I was watching some footage of FLux against a batman...maybe JRosa's? Anyway, he blocked BM's J2 and which ever follow up string he did, then immediately 111'd and either hit or forced BM to block and be in the 50/50 after 1,1,1,4

This happened in numerous matches but Batman never jumped after his blocked strings. Would he have been hit by 111 if he tried? Seemed hella disadvantageous for BM to always be put in a 50/50. Did the guy just chose not to jump over Frost? Or was it a legit frame trap?

111 4 is +15 on block. Once they block that, they must respect the 50/50. If they try to jump, backdash, poke, etc, they get blown up.