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Kano strategy

Sully

Noob
I'm an intermediate level player and I've really enjoyed my time with Kano. Unfortunately I've only had a chance to use him online against a shit load of scorp scrubs, but at that level my strategy has me winning 8 out of 10 easy. Zoning with knife works well. Most scrubs just try to jump them(if they don't have a teleport) and you can punish with upball. If you're against a teleport character, you can easily bait them to teleport because they THINK that your super fast knives are about to be thrown. With that I punish with a 30 percentish combo. His air ball is great for counter attacking projectiles. He has some solid tools. I just wish that I could play someone with some skill offline and see his full potential. So far I've only played my gf offline and she's a total kitana scrub.

As a side note I'd like to add that this game seems to be a game that will get a lot of people into fighting games. It's so accessible and people with no knowledge of fighting games AT ALL seems to almost naturally grasp some of the fundamental concepts simply by playing the game. For example, my gf decided to switch over to sheeva for a couple matches and instantly she noticed that she is "heavy" and that she has to "get close to be any good so that she can grab people". I was amazed that a person with little to no fighting game experience could grasp the concept of a grappler with in seconds of playing as one. This game is gunna bring it a bunch of new faces.
You know man, I wish that was the case. I'd love to learn some stuff offline, but most the guys around here in the local fight club are Capcom Elitists, as it were. Best I got was "The game fucking sucks", or "It's Mortal Kombat, nobody takes Mortal Kombat seriously". So it may be dead before given a chance. Granted, that could be an SRK attitude since it generally caters to Capcom/Japanese fighters anyways.

I know it's a bit OT for a Kano thread, but it's good to vent that. I agree it is a bit simpler on the surface, but it's still got some nice layers to the combat.
 

cyke_out

Noob
Most people are sheep.

Once they see all the big names players from different games- Aris and RIP from Tekken, Wong and Ross from SF- start playing MK9 on streams, they'll change their mind very fast.
 

Dietician

Deep Animu
Thankfully Capcom is going to force people to take MK seriously when they release the intentionally unbalanced AE update.
They're probably doing it to sell Ultra Street Fighter 4 Super Turbo Arcade Edition which will be in stores in a few months with some other intentionally unbalanced releases in between.

Don't get me wrong; it's going to be the same thing with Cyrax and Shang Tsung here. Hopefully there's already a big balance patch waiting for when PSN comes back up and they roll it out for both.

Might be fine, though. Just paranoid after 2 horribly unbalanced characters ruined melty blood and everyone saw it coming a mile away, and arcana heart 3 with akane, and AE with fei long and yun.
Bad time for fighters, I guess. MK is a clutch saving grace. Tons of time to patch up before people get to the level where the balance issues could control the game, and that day 1 patch was a good show of it happening. There's probably another sitting around for when PSN comes up and they can roll it out for both consoles.

Today in some of the better power up matches we saw the smarter players moving from x-rays to breakers.
Dropping 30%+ damage from you for 2 bars is more efficient than dealing about the same or much much less if combod into unless it's going to result in a match (not round) over, and doesn't rely on any level of catching the opponent- it's just guaranteed.
This'll be really good for Kano since even if the enemy pushes out a breaker they just have to deal with the wicked knife and up ball for a bit before they can get in again, and vice versa.
I can see the higher level play habits of ducking read throws developing and seeing it work out to favor Kano. Totally changes my opinion of him as a character. So strong being able to just roll and reset the range when you read a teleport.
 

GStick

Noob
I entered my first tournament tonight... but I realized I was the only one hitting a lot of breaker. Saved my butt a number of times with Kano. So I can definitely see what you're saying with that one.

I posted about this on SRK but I'm not sure anyone replied to it, but I realized you can basically do instant air ball off the ground by using d,b,u,f. I've been trying to use it in matches to find what it could be useful for, and it seems decent at getting over projectiles but I'd rather trade with knife? There's also the EX air ball... not sure if this is just a useless way to do the move or not?
 

Sutter Pain

Your mothers main.
@Gstick: You can vary the height and the angle of the ball depending on how fast you get back to F.

Also I have found that if you are zoning with knifes and anticipating a teleport jump forward and quickly do the inputs of a reverse down ball and it catches them quite well.

You can also cross up with the down ball u just have to reverse the inputs as you cross over.
 

Dietician

Deep Animu
I do ball by just swinging my stick around in a circle clockwise on player 1 side, and counter-clockwise on player 2 side. Works like a charm.
Also works with instant air ball if you wait for jump start up before continuing to forward because it emulates d,b,u,f like GStick noted.
Just a lot easier since you don't have to think about it.
 
Currently I think that we are kind of stuck, since Kano don't have a string that hit low there is no point in doing long juggle combos that deal less than 36% damage, there is also no point in starting a combo juggle with anything than a :l:fp:fp:bp string since it hit mid allowing you to hit standing and crouching opponents, also is a fast string that can help to chip and is easy to cancel into specials, the only time you may not use that string is if you want to punish crouching block with :l:bp:r:fp:d:r:bp since is the best damage you can get from the overhead. Everything else should be Knife Zoning, various ball punishes and Jump in kick followed by air grab / Ex Air Ball if you want them near you or regular Air Ball if you want to get more space.

As a side funny note, today playing with a friend I baited smoke teleport punch into my :x, it was so godlike to see smoke punch me in my back (absorbing the hit with the super armor) and then garbing him as he teleported to the other side for the second hit.
 

Sully

Noob
So it's fair enough to say after much analysis that Kano, relative to the other characters is fairly one-dimensional. In that there's no crazy 50-50s or interesting mixups or options. It's that cut and dry for him? I find that strangely disappointing. Yet, at the same time I guess that means that once you can do a few of his combo strings it's more a matter of positioning and focusing on the matchups, so is that something that should be explored in another thread?
 
So it's fair enough to say after much analysis that Kano, relative to the other characters is fairly one-dimensional. In that there's no crazy 50-50s or interesting mixups or options. It's that cut and dry for him? I find that strangely disappointing. Yet, at the same time I guess that means that once you can do a few of his combo strings it's more a matter of positioning and focusing on the matchups, so is that something that should be explored in another thread?
With no low string your only reliable source of low hits would be his long range sweep but that is not a combo tool, what you will want to do is to play an aggressive zoning game and punish any attempt to close the gap or out zoning you which is relatively easy with Kano move set, mixing sweeps and throws to condition your opponent to crouch so you can land some hits with his overhead string into Up Ball or Choke. Of course, capitalizing any hits you land with :l:fp:fp:bp to start any of his most damaging juggle combos.

Question. What kind of strategy should I use vs Sub Zero and Reptile, using Kano of course?
Sub Zero should be relatively easy to out zone, no teleport, slide is slow and super unsafe, projectile is slow on start up and recovery, clone don't block your projectiles, his most versatile combos don't deal a ton of damage. If you get pushed to the corner with clone pressure you should try to punish Sub with a ball to regain space back as he rush in or else you are in for a beating on the corner, also, I think that learning how to dash block clones would be extremely helpful in this matchup.

Now reptile I have no idea, his command run is so freaking fast, his acid spit is one of the fastest if not "the" fastest projectile on the game, Fast and Slow Force Ball mixup can really screw you Air Ball punishes and taking the battle up close is dangerous because Reptile have a superior damage output.
 

cyke_out

Noob
At the right range, Kano can throw out kinves and still have plenty of time to duck the iceball, even if they are thrown at the same time. If trapped in a corner, you can jump straight up and do an air ball to escape similiar to a blanka rainbow roll. Sub is goint to want to bully himself him and be range where his iceballs will trade with kano's knife or slide under the knives.

it's also a mind game to anti-air his jump in. if he just does a naked jump in you can blow it up with a ball, but if he anticipates your up ball, he can do an iceclone in mid air and freeze you. but if he does an iceclone and you don't up ball, then you can dash in and punish in as he lands, or at least hit him with a knife or a ball. and if he doesn't ice clone and does a naked jump in and you don't up ball either then you're force to uppecut depending on range and reaction or block the jump in and be defensive.

If he guess right, he'll get more reward for his risk vs what Kano get's for guessing right.

Edit to avoid double post:

I was reading the "ask Tom Brady over at mortalkombatunited.com, and here are some of the answers he gave regarding Kano specifically, or just related to Kano or any strategy in general.


General question on Kano
kano has good zoning with knife throw and kano ball is a great fast punisher. b23 is a safe overhead and he has a pretty good sweep as a low option. 212 is a safe launching string as is f3b2.

Kano Combo's
kano has no infinites. his bnbs are..

1. 212, dash 212, jump kick~air throw
2. 212, dash 212, dash 212, up kano ball
3. f3b2, dash 212, jump kick~air throw
4. f3b2, dash 212, dash 212, up kano ball
Character balance
in the right hands any good character is a problem
bad matchup for Cyber Subs
any character that can punish safer ranged dive kicks and has air control. you need one or the other to fight him, both gives him a hard time.
Kano tier placement
Kano's f3 hit height
kano's f3 was never low. unsure why it says it in practice mode but its a bug.
And that was the whole thread. Alot of that stuff we all knew, like his strengths and his BnB's, but it's nice seeing some reinforcement on our collective efforts.
 
At the right range, Kano can throw out kinves and still have plenty of time to duck the iceball, even if they are thrown at the same time. If trapped in a corner, you can jump straight up and do an air ball to escape similiar to a blanka rainbow roll. Sub is goint to want to bully himself him and be range where his iceballs will trade with kano's knife or slide under the knives.

it's also a mind game to anti-air his jump in. if he just does a naked jump in you can blow it up with a ball, but if he anticipates your up ball, he can do an iceclone in mid air and freeze you. but if he does an iceclone and you don't up ball, then you can dash in and punish in as he lands, or at least hit him with a knife or a ball. and if he doesn't ice clone and does a naked jump in and you don't up ball either then you're force to uppecut depending on range and reaction or block the jump in and be defensive.

If he guess right, he'll get more reward for his risk vs what Kano get's for guessing right.

Edit to avoid double post:

I was reading the "ask Tom Brady over at mortalkombatunited.com, and here are some of the answers he gave regarding Kano specifically, or just related to Kano or any strategy in general.


General question on Kano



Kano Combo's


Character balance


bad matchup for Cyber Subs


Kano tier placement


Kano's f3 hit height


And that was the whole thread. Alot of that stuff we all knew, like his strengths and his BnB's, but it's nice seeing some reinforcement on our collective efforts.
Interesting that he do not mention :l:fp:fp:bp as a BnB, it seam just as safe as :bp:fp:bp but I don't have access to any decent MK player (or anyone at all for that mater) to taste if that is indeed safe or not, also, A+? seriously, that's a big surprise to say the least.

Also, I think the :r:fk question was asked wrong, it should have been, "why does Kano lack a combo string with a low? :r:fk seam to be it but it hits high which limit his mixup a lot, specially against characters like Raiden that posses 3 strings that hit low".
 

Sully

Noob
Something else when watching that tourney... there wasn't a lot of excessive gigantic combos. It seemed they were playing pretty safe, smaller, easier to execute BnBs.

I am wondering if some analysis of situational awareness would benefit Kano alot. Stuff like, once people are aware of his 35ish% juggle, are they going to hold on to meter to break that if he gets an opening? Is HAVING X-Ray a bit of a zoning tool in and of itself since nobody wants to get close to him at that point? Is 21% b2, f1, df2 more useful in real practice than say his juggles? Does it depend on the matchup? Pressure strings? Where's Kano's "A" range? Does that depend on the character?

What's Kano's best matchups? What's his worse ones?

Knife Spam, random kano ball, and jlk-hk/Throw winning you a lot of matches? Why? Is it just the scrubs or is there enough in that game to cause problems for certain players? Being able to do the fancy combos is all fine and good, but I wonder if we were to put ourselves in a situation amongst other players that were of a reasonable competency level, what sort of things would change in Kano play?

Sorry, I went to some casuals last night and I just kept think of all these questions, nobody is playing Kano. Well one other dude was, but we only exchanged a few lines between matches. How does one break this kind of stuff down, and then apply it? I'm fairly newbish to fighters, but I know this kind of stuff is shit you're supposed to know.
 
I've only played scrubs so far, but I can tell you that knife spam works really well. It's so fast that it can even catch some characters teleports. Maybe even most of them(depending on distance). Scrubs tend to have no options except to jump them. Then you catch them in the upball which sends them back quite a ways. Pretty basic zoning strategy. I've only fought one dash-blocker, and in serious play this is the way people will get in on you. dash-blocking Kanos knife works really well and forces you to take to fight up close. We already know his strings and what they can do and produce, so basically you have to maintain a good defense, and make sure to counter attack at the exact moment. Kano has limited mix-ups, so punishing is his best option. The x-ray works AMAZING against scrubs, but I have a feeling that in high-play it'll be a lot harder to execute. It'll be like a counter x-ray of sorts. People are going to be jumping and punishing his x-ray like crazy.

As far as match-ups go, Smoke seems to have ALL the zoners numbers, with that parry/teleport shit. Scorpion does decent, maybe 6/10. Nightwolf is pretty even, his lightning on wake-up is easily punished by wake-up ball and a lot of his moves are punishable. Maybe I haven't played a good one yet. I havent had a chance to fight a lot of the cast yet so a lot of the match-ups I don't have a clue about.
 
Also remember that Kano can end any of is combos early with any of his specials for a knock down or a knockback, yeah good players may break your combo but all your combos work around the same juggles anyway, what you should be doing is getting your damage through knife zoning and ball punishment, chipping their life bar if they block and dash block in and then, either take the battle up close with dash in attacks of :d:fk, :fp:fp and :bp:fp:bp with :d:r:fp to gain space on block or use Ball or Air Ball to switch sides when they jump ore get in dashing, also remember that if you get a jump in kick you can follow it with an air grab or air ball, and if that jump in kick is used deep enough you can even start a combo of it.
 
1. Something else when watching that tourney...

2. I am wondering if some analysis of situational awareness would benefit Kano

3. What's Kano's best matchups? What's his worse ones?

4. Knife Spam, random kano ball, and jlk-hk/Throw winning you a lot of matches?
1:
There's a few concepts that make a good fighting game player great. Mind games, wakeup games, footsies and spacing, and damage capitalization.

This question deals with damage capitalization. As a player, it's your job in every instance you are given to go for the highest damage that you can. That you can, not that you read on TYM or SRK, or saw a high level player do on Youtube (When dropping combos, players who do this will claim to be going for the combo like they saw *here* or that they saw "The Koreans/Japanese/*Top Player's Name*!" do).

If your combo you do gets 3% or so less damage than the best, but you can do it perfectly virtually every time, then do your combo. If you're getting too little damage, like 10% less (In Kano's case this is much worse than other characters, but I digress), then maybe it's time to practice a new combo...

Anyways, in tournaments, ALL players get nerves. Even vets. So they practice combos that they won't mess up on. Looking at Tom Brady's combos at Powerup, he went for 5% or so less damage, but hit the combo every time. If he did a combo he wasn't familiar with, or couldn't execute effectively on reaction, then maybe he wouldn't have done so good.

2.
Using breaker meter is at the player's discretion. If he thinks he is stopping a lot of damage early in a combo, then it's a good choice. If he thinks he is, but you cut it short with a special, and he just broke the last hit, then he wasted it. He also might only think to use it after you end your combo early, which would leave him knocked down rather than yourself. It's also about if the person who is being combo'd thinks they can turn it around with however much life they have left after you are done comboing them. If they know they can't survive, they have to breaker. This applies to all characters, really.

Having a super (especially an unblockable one that can be used as a reversal) is a big threat. Safe players will run away and try to zone you, which can allow you opportunities to punish bad fireball zoning or start your own. Scrubs will keep hitting buttons on your wakeup every time and block at bad times or just not react to it and eat shit for it. Skilled players can just make you blow it and take away your 41% damage comeback-factor. However, those skilled players also give up certain damage opportunities for mindgames and open themselves up for punishment in certain situations (Like, jumping out after a dash-canceled charge command normal as a bait can be punished by upball or uppercut, just as an example). So yes, having X-Ray is just as big a factor in mindgames as using it, and can change the flow of a match greatly, almost (or possibly more) as much a hitting it. This goes for all characters.

I don't like his overhead too much personally. It's fairly slow, doesn't go over lows, and gets decent damage, but not outstanding. Throwing is faster, at the sacrifice of range and damage, but is harder to react to. Up to you. If they're just down blocking CONSTANTLY then use the overhead on them I guess.

His "A" range? As in his best screen positioning? Well he needs to be close to get good damage like most characters, but can play fireball zoning games with his knife and punish whiffed/block moves fairly well at midrange. I have no idea yet.

3:
Can't even speak on this one yet. Sorry, as you may have guessed from what you saw last night I really only have Ermac experience as of right now.

4:
Knife spam is good. Good damage, fast, and controls good area. Abusing it is is dangerous, as is most everything in this game. Gotta be thinking about what your opponent will do, based on his options and playstyle, if you abuse it too much. Still, fairly solid in a fireball war (Who does that in MK?) based on my extremely limited experience with the game.

Random balls are really only good if you notice your opponent doing something that isn't blocking or horizontal zoning, but is largely responsible for your losing. Examples include, but aren't limited to, dashing in and not blocking to get in range of a good attack, or jumping constantly, or even constant wakeup pressure on you. Wakeup SRKs are GREAT when they hit! It's better for whiff punishing and punishing unsafe midrange-range moves, however.

The Jump kick-Airthrow thing...that's probably just gimmicky, but if you are beating the other player in the air-to-air game, then it's a lot better than just an early jump punch/kick.

----

Off the topic of that response, it seems like Choke is close to the -1/0/+1 range on block, but I'm not sure which characters can duck/crouchblock under it. Anyone have any extensive experience with this? Personally I can say it's a bad string ender against Ermac if he is ducking.

Also, I'm totally on board with Kano having some lows in his strings. That would have been sweet.

And if anyone would like to criticize/correct/comment on anything in my post, please, do so. Totally down with learning anything new.
 

Zebster

How's my volume?
Dunno how many of you noticed this but Hector Sanchez had this to say about Kano:
RT @pakostevens: Kano's towards+fk will be a low. Wiff'd upballs will recover slightly faster for improved shenanigans.don't give up on him!

Another sneak update incoming?
 
Dunno how many of you noticed this but Hector Sanchez had this to say about Kano:
RT @pakostevens: Kano's towards+fk will be a low. Wiff'd upballs will recover slightly faster for improved shenanigans.don't give up on him!

Another sneak update incoming?
YES! Oh god I love Hector.
 

hjs-Q

Noob
Dunno how many of you noticed this but Hector Sanchez had this to say about Kano:
RT @pakostevens: Kano's towards+fk will be a low. Wiff'd upballs will recover slightly faster for improved shenanigans.don't give up on him!

Another sneak update incoming?
YES! love NRS and love hector. They listen!!!!!
 

Mgt2

Noob
Dunno how many of you noticed this but Hector Sanchez had this to say about Kano:
RT @pakostevens: Kano's towards+fk will be a low. Wiff'd upballs will recover slightly faster for improved shenanigans.don't give up on him!

Another sneak update incoming?
Great news. thanks for sharing :)
 

cyke_out

Noob
Dunno how many of you noticed this but Hector Sanchez had this to say about Kano:
RT @pakostevens: Kano's towards+fk will be a low. Wiff'd upballs will recover slightly faster for improved shenanigans.don't give up on him!

Another sneak update incoming?
Awesome! finally a useful low.

Now we just need a useful mid for a decent mix-up. Otherwise the opponent will just block low all the time as opposed to just blocking high like they are currently.
 
with f3 being a low, and if they maybe make it a couple frames faster for his overhead then kano should be much more viable at a competitive level, even with his lower than average combo damage.

edit: but yeah, this is great news, i can't wait for the update.
 
Awesome! finally a useful low.

Now we just need a useful mid for a decent mix-up. Otherwise the opponent will just block low all the time as opposed to just blocking high like they are currently.
His overhead may be a bit slow but he does have a nice range on it, also remember that you can always cancel the combo strings into a chock to get pushed back if you get blocked.