What's new

Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
crosstalk Hacksu

It's more lucky than anything if F33 beats EX RH. I think it only works if they let the RH go (which most don't do as its very vulnerable to crossup) as opposed to dash cancelling it into 4 RH. This happens to Raiden's EX Shocker and Sonya's EX Cartwheel too but yeah, I wouldn't count on it happening enough to be an actual strategy to counter it.

.
rain will do 43 out of an ex rh cancel and hit confirm to bubble/rh
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
rain will do 43 out of an ex rh cancel and hit confirm to bubble/rh
Either way, the point was Rain players will almost never just do raw EX RH and will always dash cancel it into something.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Either way, the point was Rain players will almost never just do raw EX RH and will always dash cancel it into something.
i dont have much rain experience, do we have a way to punish that? it looks like we could easily check with a s.2 and still be able to block the string, and maybe force some commitment to regular ex roundhouse, allowing a crossover oppurtunity? I will test today at Team Yardley casuals.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
i dont have much rain experience, do we have a way to punish that? it looks like we could easily check with a s.2 and still be able to block the string, and maybe force some commitment to regular ex roundhouse, allowing a crossover oppurtunity? I will test today at Team Yardley casuals.
The roundhouse is significantly slower than cancelling it into 4/43. Letting roundhouse go hits in 30 frames, doing EX RH cancel into 43 hits in 22 frames. Theres no downside to doing the dash cancel unless the Rain player has some execution issues. The way its used against cage is very similar to Sonya's EX cartwheel. It's a safe way out of pressure start a combo and a tool you can throw out in footsies for little consequence if you so wish.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
The roundhouse is significantly slower than cancelling it into 4/43. Letting roundhouse go hits in 30 frames, doing EX RH cancel into 43 hits in 22 frames. Theres no downside to doing the dash cancel unless the Rain player has some execution issues. The way its used against cage is very similar to Sonya's EX cartwheel. It's a safe way out of pressure start a combo and a tool you can throw out in footsies for little consequence if you so wish.
Yeah I read the frame data wrong. You are correct.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
GGA Dizzy do you know if you can jump over spirit charge after a blocked fwd33b3? Team Yardleys testing says you can get over it but I may not be frame perfect with my shoulder charge, and it seemed really close. If you can, that could be the string we use to try and create some sort of mixup oppurtunity.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
So Cage players? What is the secret to getting out of Knee pressure?
No offense, but i hate when people ask that question. because the only way to answer it is to say, make the right read. The thing about cage is his upclose game has so many tools, its like fighting another characters whole arsenal of tools for the whole screen, right in your face. The key to getting out of knee pressure is ultimatly guessing when cage will stagger and interrupt. But there are so many more mindgames that cage can create with all of his tools, that it really isn't that simple.
 

Solo

Shadow Priest
No offense, but i hate when people ask that question. because the only way to answer it is to say, make the right read. The thing about cage is his upclose game has so many tools, its like fighting another characters whole arsenal of tools for the whole screen, right in your face. The key to getting out of knee pressure is ultimatly guessing when cage will stagger and interrupt. But there are so many more mindgames that cage can create with all of his tools, that it really isn't that simple.
Sorry, Man. Just looking for answers to the question.


Regardless, thanks! :)
 
Are you talking about a universal way? Well, first, you only want to try getting out of pressure after blocking a string or making him whiff a string. Cage will get a free follow-up from most of his hit advantage. You should be crouch blocking to avoid f33 Ex FB and 11f1. 1, 11, 11f1, 2, and 21 all hit high, so it is possible to duck and punish these on whiff if you think they're coming. Of course, Cage can just read you're ducking and just f3. For me, it's easiest to poke after blocking a 21, f32, or f33. F33 is -4 on block so any follow-up he does should be able to be stuffed. It's obvious, but you don't want to poke after 21f2 or f33b3, as these strings cause pushback for counterpoke setups. It's definitely possible to poke after blocking a f3. If Cage is being too predictable, I almost always am able to poke the next f3 coming out.

Some characters obviously have an easier time than others getting out of his pressure. Any character with a good armor move can easily get out. Characters with good pokes and good armor have the easiest time. Ones with faster normals or strings (like Kung Lao's 21) than f3 are also able to get out, although it's risky for them as most of the time they have to stand in order to do this.
 
I remember when people blew me up for saying that you could poke out. What I meant was that you could poke out and not fear the nonsense that was random advantage.
 
I remember when people blew me up for saying that you could poke out. What I meant was that you could poke out and not fear the nonsense that was random advantage.
Back in the days where people thought they could only stand block against Cage or risk getting random advantage every time.
 
Im still learning this MU as well, GGA Dizzy has beaten m2dave though, so Id like to hear his thoughts.
Yeah it's mainly approaching Freddy from full to mid screen I'm having trouble with. I don't think I'm fully approaching him as well as I should. Up close isn't too bad as I mainly have to worry about EX teleport or EX sweet dreams. Freddy's teleport can be annoying when used within or just outside sweep distance. I'm gonna tag m2dave as well.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Yeah it's mainly approaching Freddy from full to mid screen I'm having trouble with. I don't think I'm fully approaching him as well as I should. Up close isn't too bad as I mainly have to worry about EX teleport or EX sweet dreams. Freddy's teleport can be annoying when used within or just outside sweep distance. I'm gonna tag m2dave as well.
When you learn how to approach Freddy, which may take some time because the zoning game is unique, the match up becomes even, if not just slightly in Freddy's favor. Unlike Kabal and Kenshi, Freddy has no cheap armor attacks and fast pokes. You can bully him with repeated f+3s without any risks. EX teleport can be thrown on start up and EX sweet dreams do not track reliably. You also cannot do d+1 XX back teleport unless you are standing.

I have fought Johnny Cage more than any other character aside from Kabal. I never managed to dominate Master D. 8:2, 7:3, or any of the other laughable numbers that some Cage players post about. This match up is at the very best 6:4 in Freddy's favor.
 
When you learn how to approach Freddy, which may take some time because the zoning game is unique, the match up becomes even, if not just slightly in Freddy's favor. Unlike Kabal and Kenshi, Freddy has no cheap armor attacks and fast pokes. You can bully him with repeated f+3s without any risks. EX teleport can be thrown on start up and EX sweet dreams do not track reliably. You also cannot do d+1 XX back teleport unless you are standing.

I have fought Johnny Cage more than any other character aside from Kabal. I never managed to dominate Master D. 8:2, 7:3, or any of the other laughable numbers that some Cage players post about. This match up is at the very best 6:4 in Freddy's favor.
What's the best way to get in you think? I try to dash d3 under claws and block spikes to start advancing but it seems easier said than done haha.