General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[crosstalk]

I think f4 is viable in the corner, seems to hit a lot of people who like to try and jump out. Midscreen though it's just too slow and the hitbox isn't that great.

 

[Da Tac0]

Should I be using ji2 or 1?

 

[rafaw]

Should I be using ji2 or 1?

1, 2 is too slow

 

[Da Tac0]

1, 2 is too slow

is that including crossovers?

 

[Name v.5.0]

is that including crossovers?

I like ji2 for actual jump ins and cross overs...maybe it's the timing of it. Idk.

ji1 is the best for air to air though.

 

[Da Tac0]

I like ji2 for actual jump ins and cross overs...maybe it's the timing of it. Idk.

ji1 is the best for air to air though.

Gotcha. So it's just like Ermac's ji1 or 2. I always use two with him but with Johnny I've conditioned myself to using ji1 to hit 113. Gotta break that habit. Looks like his ji2 has more reach too.

 

[rafaw]

Gotcha. So it's just like Ermac's ji1 or 2. I always use two with him but with Johnny I've conditioned myself to using ji1 to hit 113. Gotta break that habit. Looks like his ji2 has more reach too.

His ji2 is better in range, but its way slower, air to air is terrible, even agains some caracters that go for AA normals i dont like it, so i just use ji1 all the time

 

[crosstalk]

Yeah I've been sticking with j1 almost exclusively, sometimes I'll do j3 if I'm at a further distance because it has good range.

 

[Diamondust]

A-List Main here....Takeda and Scorpion fuck day all the time online. Frustrating because all i read here is how Bad Takeda is and he routinely beats my ass. Scorpion, i can read pretty good but cant seem to punish, Scorpion just seem faster to the punch before i can counterattack. Help?
I feel his flip kick is too slow and the hitbox is too small, i liked his flip kick in MK9 with the elbow MB. I wish Nutpunch hit low as well. Mid block, really? Of course the whiff problems that are well know.

 

[Name v.5.0]

His ji2 is better in range, but its way slower, air to air is terrible, even agains some caracters that go for AA normals i dont like it, so i just use ji1 all the time

I seem to miss more often when I do a crossover ji1. Must just be a preference thing.

 

[Phosferrax]

I'm beginning to see the potential for having both SD and A-List down and what dictates which variation to use for a certain MU.

For example, I'm feeling SD against Tempest Lao because the significant increase in damage output compared to A-List makes a big difference here. Tempest hits for high 30% meterless most of the time, and it gets quite hard to keep up in A-List when you're doing mid 20% meterless.

Getting to the point where if I think I don't need to stay in for a MU, SD could be the way to go.

 

[rafaw]

I'm beginning to see the potential for having both SD and A-List down and what dictates which variation to use for a certain MU.

For example, I'm feeling SD against Tempest Lao because the significant increase in damage output compared to A-List makes a big difference here. Tempest hits for high 30% meterless most of the time, and it gets quite hard to keep up in A-List when you're doing mid 20% meterless.

Getting to the point where if I think I don't need to stay in for a MU, SD could be the way to go.

i agree with the SD for specific matchups, but imo against Tempest A list is better, you got way more pressure/oportunities to open him up.

 

[Phosferrax]

i agree with the SD for specific matchups, but imo against Tempest A list is better, you got way more pressure/oportunities to open him up.

Yes but Tempest does what Fisticuffs did except he doesn't have constant holes in it, so he's going to open you up as well. He hits for much more than A-List does, so the result of opening him up in A-List is only half of what it is in SD. I'm unsure about it though, as f3skrc are huge in this MU, and losing that in SD means playing more reactionary footsies I think.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Yes but Tempest does what Fisticuffs did except he doesn't have constant holes in it, so he's going to open you up as well. He hits for much more than A-List does, so the result of opening him up in A-List is only half of what it is in SD. I'm unsure about it though, as f3skrc are huge in this MU, and losing that in SD means playing more reactionary footsies I think.

I'm not sure F3 works for any variation of Cage in this MU. TKL always has his fucking hat spinning around him which doinks you out of for 3. LoL

 

[Asodimazze]

Against Tempest, is better to play Tempest.

Edit: but if you like Cage too much and want to stick with him, I don't believe there is much difference in playing A-List or Stunt Double...it will be an uphill battle anyway.
Maybe with Stunt Double the whiffing problem is less important because of the clones...Kung Lao tiny hitbox is something to consider when playing A-List. Better forget about 114.

 

[Kompetitor]

I'm not sure F3 works for any variation of Cage in this MU. TKL always has his fucking hat spinning around him which doinks you out of for 3. LoL

I believe d4 actually low profiles the hat spin, so that is a possible option

 

[ismael4790]

I believe d4 actually low profiles the hat spin, so that is a possible option

It does, it's an option against hat spin. But if you do it too often the KL player will learn and do his overhead double kick, so you have to be careful.

 

[rafaw]

I was wondering, has anyone found some utility to B2 in a-list?
In mk9 at least it was a threat bc of the full charge unblockable, now they can just defend all the way.

 

[DrFolmer]

A-List Main here....Takeda and Scorpion fuck day all the time online. Frustrating because all i read here is how Bad Takeda is and he routinely beats my ass. Scorpion, i can read pretty good but cant seem to punish, Scorpion just seem faster to the punch before i can counterattack. Help?
I feel his flip kick is too slow and the hitbox is too small, i liked his flip kick in MK9 with the elbow MB. I wish Nutpunch hit low as well. Mid block, really? Of course the whiff problems that are well know.

Takeda downplay is real on TYM, I always struggle against Takeda as Johnny. He has that huge reach on his normals and insane air control with the air hook as well as a sick Njp. Haven't tried the matchup offline, but it just feels like I cant punish anything but the teleport. The ex version has less disadvantage and he can seemingly poke me out of f2 and f3. And when I try to poke he does njp.

We have nothing good in air, and Takeda has some of the best shit in the game (have yall seen that jump of his?)

And when you get close he has a ton of meter because you have to block his fullscren overhead/low mixup with kunai. I know it's easier offline but online is just cancer vs Takeda

 

[kelevra]

I was wondering, has anyone found some utility to B2 in a-list?
In mk9 at least it was a threat bc of the full charge unblockable, now they can just defend all the way.

Ever tried a fully charged NP and then a b2? Could be an idea but i gotta hit the lab on that first.
Btw, have any of you guys noticed that a meaty standing 1 get straight up beaten by a reversal non ex flip from cassie?
I couldnt believe my eyes.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Takeda downplay is real on TYM, I always struggle against Takeda as Johnny. He has that huge reach on his normals and insane air control with the air hook as well as a sick Njp. Haven't tried the matchup offline, but it just feels like I cant punish anything but the teleport. The ex version has less disadvantage and he can seemingly poke me out of f2 and f3. And when I try to poke he does njp.

We have nothing good in air, and Takeda has some of the best shit in the game (have yall seen that jump of his?)

And when you get close he has a ton of meter because you have to block his fullscren overhead/low mixup with kunai. I know it's easier offline but online is just cancer vs Takeda

One tip here...He cant end a string with kunai safely from almost any range. You can basically Shadow Kick on reaction and knock his ass down. If you're close enough to him you can armor through the gaps, or back dash for F3 punish. You gotta make him be hesitant to use it.

It's been awhile since I've played the MU, I cant remember if you can Shadow Kick through EX Kunai. Test that.

 

[DrFolmer]

One tip here...He cant end a string with kunai safely from almost any range. You can basically Shadow Kick on reaction and knock his ass down. If you're close enough to him you can armor through the gaps, or back dash for F3 punish. You gotta make him be hesitant to use it.

It's been awhile since I've played the MU, I cant remember if you can Shadow Kick through EX Kunai. Test that.

Thanks for the tip mate, I'll definitely look into it

 

[rafaw]

Ever tried a fully charged NP and then a b2? Could be an idea but i gotta hit the lab on that first.
Btw, have any of you guys noticed that a meaty standing 1 get straight up beaten by a reversal non ex flip from cassie?
I couldnt believe my eyes.

Never tried that, but whats the diference between fully charged np into b2 or normal np into b2? and even then, b2 would be the same.
B2 pushback a lot, so it could be good to use F3 after to check if they are going to move, like stand 4 was in mk9, 121 got a nice pushback too, just though of that... i will test it once i get home.

 

[kelevra]

Never tried that, but whats the diference between fully charged np into b2 or normal np into b2? and even then, b2 would be the same.
B2 pushback a lot, so it could be good to use F3 after to check if they are going to move, like stand 4 was in mk9, 121 got a nice pushback too, just though of that... i will test it once i get home.

Charged NP gives you double the +frames if i recall correctly. Gotta check on that later because im at work atm.

 

[rafaw]

Charged NP gives you double the +frames if i recall correctly. Gotta check on that later because im at work atm.

I really doubt that, but im not sure too.