General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Name v.5.0]

So hypothetically...If SDJC was given the ability to run cancel his mimic call and left him around +2 to +5, and F34 could be hit confirmed into nutpunch, what would be the ramifications?

Run cancelling mimic call would allow him a little extra chip, which isn't awful for a character that needs to chip. It's not like having the clone out makes him god since you can armor and even backdash the mimic attacks for full punish. It just allows JC to get them out safely, and not at the end of a combo.

F34 gives SDJC an actual forward advancing move that can punish and be hit confirmed. I fucking hate trying to punish with F3~Nut Cracker with this game's stupid block stun. You just miss your window and get blocked. F2 and 113 dont work for lots of punishes.

I cant imagine these changes would move him around in the tier lists that much. Just makes life a little better for SDJC players.

Thoughts?

 

[Killer Xinok]

So hypothetically...If SDJC was given the ability to run cancel his mimic call and left him around +2 to +5, and F34 could be hit confirmed into nutpunch, what would be the ramifications?

Run cancelling mimic call would allow him a little extra chip, which isn't awful for a character that needs to chip. It's not like having the clone out makes him god since you can armor and even backdash the mimic attacks for full punish. It just allows JC to get them out safely, and not at the end of a combo.

F34 gives SDJC an actual forward advancing move that can punish and be hit confirmed. I fucking hate trying to punish with F3~Nut Cracker with this game's stupid block stun. You just miss your window and get blocked. F2 and 113 dont work for lots of punishes.

I cant imagine these changes would move him around in the tier lists that much. Just makes life a little better for SDJC players.

Thoughts?

I guess the mind game would change a lot, making him safe after mimic canceling f3, but, as you said, it wouldn't be a huge thing..

 

[Name v.5.0]

I guess the mind game would change a lot, making him safe after mimic canceling f3, but, as you said, it wouldn't be a huge thing..

Right! It's not like there's a mixup for him to follow up with. F2 would be too slow and you could poke out, or armor. Same against a throw if the +frames are low enough. The only thing I can really see changing is the chip. You could come in and do 114~Mimic Call Run Cancel~114~all that mimic rising shadow chip shit. Even so, most people allow the 333 shit to just hit them to escape. Even if the whole thing is allowed to end, JC gets around 3% extra chip...whoopeeeeeeeee

 

[Killer Xinok]

Right! It's not like there's a mixup for him to follow up with. F2 would be too slow and you could poke out, or armor. Same against a throw if the +frames are low enough. The only thing I can really see changing is the chip. You could come in and do 114~Mimic Call Run Cancel~114~all that mimic rising shadow chip shit. Even so, most people allow the 333 shit to just hit them to escape. Even if the whole thing is allowed to end, JC gets around 3% extra chip...whoopeeeeeeeee

You can trick people that try to allow the 333 hit to get out of the pressure.. just do 33 ex rising shadow.. even there's a gap to do armor, the opponent will just stop pressing block, what will make him eat the rising shadow, so you can combo afterwards..

 

[Wigy]

So hypothetically...If SDJC was given the ability to run cancel his mimic call and left him around +2 to +5, and F34 could be hit confirmed into nutpunch, what would be the ramifications?

Run cancelling mimic call would allow him a little extra chip, which isn't awful for a character that needs to chip. It's not like having the clone out makes him god since you can armor and even backdash the mimic attacks for full punish. It just allows JC to get them out safely, and not at the end of a combo.

F34 gives SDJC an actual forward advancing move that can punish and be hit confirmed. I fucking hate trying to punish with F3~Nut Cracker with this game's stupid block stun. You just miss your window and get blocked. F2 and 113 dont work for lots of punishes.

I cant imagine these changes would move him around in the tier lists that much. Just makes life a little better for SDJC players.

Thoughts?

A-list would be pointless though

 

[Name v.5.0]

A-list would be pointless though

Welp...That's cuz I was thinking about how to make Stunt Double better. LOL

 

[rafaw]

Make a-list cancels cost half stamina and we are good
Kidding, just want hitbox fixes, this stamina shit would be too much, we are not liu kang!

 

[Asodimazze]

Apart from hitboxes fixes what would you change?

 

[Hawfy]

Apart from hitboxes fixes what would you change?

Ex Flip Kick its his only decent AA and it does no damage.

 

[Killer Xinok]

Ex Flip Kick its his only decent AA and it does no damage.

Ex nut punch

 

[Kompetitor]

Make a-list cancels cost half stamina and we are good
Kidding, just want hitbox fixes, this stamina shit would be too much, we are not liu kang!

Lol, so cage would become Kabal

 

[Hawfy]

Ex nut punch

But it gets blown up by NJP and doesnt always connect for me. If we're supposed to AA with NP whats the point of flip kick besides a few swaggy corner combos?.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Apart from hitboxes fixes what would you change?

7 frame D1
9 frame D3
10 frame standing 3
8 frame standing 1
F34 can be cancelled, -6 on block.
B4 on block to be -15
F24 to easily combo into 12. No more D1 in combos.
Run cancellable mimic call.
8 active frame ji1 and ji2.

And I actually don't think any of these ideas make him OP, or get him out of mid tier.

Hell, I coulda said slow down the 3 in 113 to make the 113/11,f24 a true mix up. Lol.

 

[Hawfy]

F24 to easily combo into 12. No more D1 in combos.

This one please.

 

[Name v.5.0]

This one please.

Johnny has possibly the least hype combos in the game. So clunky.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I've been using flipkick in a list almost alm the time. Combos include

Run canceling into either b34/f3 full charge ex nut punch.

I then follow with 4flipkick, 12, 12, ,12, 12nut.


Meter less i just do any normal into flipkick, f24, f3.

Then follow with the usual 12's into nut.

 

[Wigy]

Make flipkick have a muuuuuuuch better hitbox and faster or make ex flipkick combo-able

As i've started playing liu kang and d'vora it makes me so mad that johnny cage lacks SO many things.

Decent JIP
Fast mid
Fast poke
Fast anything
(Lol rushdown)
No decent antiair, ex ballpunch gets beat out by long range jip's, JKs and requires meter
Advancing mid thats safe for fisticuffs and a list
This is literally everything on the checklist of things you EXPECT from a rushdown character

Its not like we have any ridiculous blockstrings or an actual 50/50... Seriously.. D4 is our best tool which is more than a little sad

Fucking shinnock has more rushdown tools they we do in fisticuffs

 

[crosstalk]

If his own daughter gets to combo from EX flipkick, why can't Johnny?

 

[nicomatc]

simply they just played johnny so bad is dis game, a-list is his only savior

 

[Kompetitor]

Make flipkick have a muuuuuuuch better hitbox and faster or make ex flipkick combo-able

As i've started playing liu kang and d'vora it makes me so mad that johnny cage lacks SO many things.

Decent JIP
Fast mid
Fast poke
Fast anything
(Lol rushdown)
No decent antiair, ex ballpunch gets beat out by long range jip's, JKs and requires meter
Advancing mid thats safe for fisticuffs and a list
This is literally everything on the checklist of things you EXPECT from a rushdown character

Its not like we have any ridiculous blockstrings or an actual 50/50... Seriously.. D4 is our best tool which is more than a little sad

Fucking shinnock has more rushdown tools they we do in fisticuffs

In A-List, cage has an advancing safe mid, f3 then shadowkick run cancel. He does need an anti air badly, shouldnt have to spend a bar when people wanna jump all day. I want MK9 Johnny's standing 1 again

 

[smokey]

Do you guys really struggle with cage or just downplaying? Cage doesnt need buffs to be mid tier, hes already top end of mid tier and hasnt got bad matchups against most of the "top 10". Serious question, what do you guys struggle with that you think making f34 cancellable will fix?

 

[Asodimazze]

Johnny has possibly the least hype combos in the game. So clunky.

Double cancel combos are pretty hype to me . Watch this cool video :

Do you guys really struggle with cage or just downplaying? Cage doesnt need buffs to be mid tier, hes already top end of mid tier and hasnt got bad matchups against most of the "top 10". Serious question, what do you guys struggle with that you think making f34 cancellable will fix?

I don't downplay or have too many struggles...I win most of the time against almost anyone I've met. That said, nobody punishes my random whiffs or truly exploits Cage weaknesses. It's been said a million times, the character needs fixes and maybe some buffs.

On top of the hitbox fixes I would like better frames on block for Flipkick, Ex Flipkick, 113, f34. Faster S1, better hitbox on d2, jump in punch, and njp. That's it for me. He would still be much weaker than the top tiers, but would be a decent mid.

Edit: Fisticuff specific buffs too.

*Smokey, do you play on PS4 EU?

 

[ismael4790]

Double cancel combos are pretty hype to me . Watch this cool video :

I usually get the stamina to red when trying double cancels like the blockstring he uses at the end of most combos, and i lose the advantage. How to avoid this?

 

[rafaw]

The only real problem of JC imo is this hitbox shit, 114 should be a main tool for him.
He got some more problems but nothing that will push him down so hard, of cource top tiers are wayyy easier to play.
I would love to see a buff for exflip kick to combo tho , and make b2 full charge unblockable like mk9 too

 

[rafaw]

I usually get the stamina to red when trying double cancels like the blockstring he uses at the end of most combos, and i lose the advantage. How to avoid this?

Your doing a dashrc on the second cancel, if you do just the rc you start runing without lose any stamina, but if you do a dash rc it will consume a bit of stamina for the dash and the run wont come out bc you will not have a full bar of stamina.
Probably your doing f,f,block instead of f,f+block or f+block,f. I used to do it all the time.

The rule is: if you have more than a bar of stamina after the first cancel, you can do another one.