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General/Other - Jax Jax General Discussion

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
alright i got the xbox section going, now i need to round up the xbox jaxes and their variations and i need to get a streamer
I don't mind streaming it. I can also get the word out to the xbox jax players i know... But thats like 3 we will need more lol
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
I don't mind streaming it. I can also get the word out to the xbox jax players i know... But thats like 3 we will need more lol
alright, good thing these forums arent console seperated so as more and more jax read it im sure more will pop up, but i will try to get the word out as well
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
IMO our worst MU's are Sub Zero & Shinnok, which I have at 6-4 right now and at 5.5-4.5 I have Johnny Cage, Kung Lao and maybe Cassie. Still need to flesh out a few other potential bad MU's just waiting for the chance to play mains of that character.
also i have problems with a solid Covert Sonya not because of 33.33/33.33/33.33 mixups but because parry is no wake ups for you and xray looming means dont be too pressure heavy, also i find mileena sometimes too
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
I feel out bad MU's Are tanya, Cassie, GM sub, Predator
Lao might be 5/5 with Wrestler
Kotal is probably 5/5 with HW
Characters like Quan/Sonya you just have to guess. Its dumb.
Sonya might be a bad MU though. Quan is 5/5
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
I feel out bad MU's Are tanya, Cassie, GM sub, Predator
Lao might be 5/5 with Wrestler
Kotal is probably 5/5 with HW
Characters like Quan/Sonya you just have to guess. Its dumb.
Sonya might be a bad MU though. Quan is 5/5
Quan is not only for his guesses but he can really out zone jax if he has meter, i have literally been stuck full screen for like 10 seconds because he used 3 bars of meter on 3 ex runes and dragon fire lui kang believe it or not will make you hold block for a a good while as you wait for your pressure to start i used to think kotal is 5-5 but i think its really more in jax favor especially heavy weapons because up rocket will beat jump ins alot and without jumpins kotal is basically stuck with advancing strings
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
Sonya is kinda one of those that Inde pretty much summed up as guessing lol. But we have the tools to keep Sonya out or punish her overhead and the tools to keep Quan locked down forever if we win the neutral.

Inde why Wrestler for Lao? I think HW is essential for this MU so you can confirm the pokes you're throwing out in the neutral to keep him from advancing with orbiting hat and doing meterless conversions to save meter to stop his nonsense or at least condition him, interested to hear you're thoughts on why Wrestler is the go to choice.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Quan is not only for his guesses but he can really out zone jax if he has meter, i have literally been stuck full screen for like 10 seconds because he used 3 bars of meter on 3 ex runes and dragon fire lui kang believe it or not will make you hold block for a a good while as you wait for your pressure to start
I know quan can zone. Its really troublesome. But when we get in he kind of dies. Its a very momentum based match. I have no experience against DF. :/ So i cannot really give a MU number
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Sonya is kinda one of those that Inde pretty much summed up as guessing lol. But we have the tools to keep Sonya out or punish her overhead and the tools to keep Quan locked down forever if we win the neutral.

Inde why Wrestler for Lao? I think HW is essential for this MU so you can confirm the pokes you're throwing out in the neutral to keep him from advancing with orbiting hat and doing meterless conversions to save meter to stop his nonsense or at least condition him, interested to hear you're thoughts on why Wrestler is the go to choice.
I think the extra WU is very useful in the MU. Being able to Armor grab through certain pressure strings and putting him back into the corner can help change the momentum of the match. It does add another layer of guessing since they can jump back Dive kick but its part of them game. Everyone is going to have a different way to doing a MU. I will say being able to hit confirm F3 in the MU is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Good.
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
Sonya is kinda one of those that Inde pretty much summed up as guessing lol. But we have the tools to keep Sonya out or punish her overhead and the tools to keep Quan locked down forever if we win the neutral.

Inde why Wrestler for Lao? I think HW is essential for this MU so you can confirm the pokes you're throwing out in the neutral to keep him from advancing with orbiting hat and doing meterless conversions to save meter to stop his nonsense or at least condition him, interested to hear you're thoughts on why Wrestler is the go to choice.
I too am interested because i use pumped up for lao
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
I think the extra WU is very useful in the MU. Being able to Armor grab through certain pressure strings and putting him back into the corner can help change the momentum of the match. It does add another layer of guessing since they can jump back Dive kick but its part of them game. Everyone is going to have a different way to doing a MU. I will say being able to hit confirm F3 in the MU is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Good.
hit confirming f3 is nice and i see where you are going with the throws but i find it harder to armour out with QG than it is with GG
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
hit confirming f3 is nice and i see where you are going with the throws but i find it harder to armour out with QG than it is with GG
The 7 frame Gotcha grab in pumped up and the restand is nice. Like i said its about what people feel more comfortable with. Each variation does have its strong points int eh MU. Watching Jim play Foxy with HW is really good cause of how he fights the MU. He does a great job baiting spins with Cancels.
 

Poser Paul

#1 Unbreakable
So is that the actual frame data for the ex iceball? It doesn't matter if the jax player shoots first the ex iceball absorbs jax's projectiles, i am sure you forgot that simple fact.

No you didn't make any productive comments with facts your just analysing what i said - which is getting us where? (no where)

And i didn't say you should prove to me why its a bad match up i have already given my reasons (jax struggles to get in) it doesn't matter if other characters have the same problem this is THE JAX forum and we are talking about bad match ups FOR jax so reel it in.

What i did say tho is if your going to argue against what i have said - then give your reasons as to why IT ISN'T A BAD MATCH UP for jax. Pretty simple right? So please i am all ears.

Who is this guy you speak of with opposing views? i just went back 2 pages to make sure we are both reading the same thread and 4 people including me said sub was his worst match up and 2 people disagreed - so if you add the numbers if you wanna go with facts....
Also one of the guys who disagreed said takeda was a bad match up which is completely the opposite of what takeda is vs jax so i am not really sure we can count that.

Not only does jax struggle to get in but his down4 makes jax's f2 mid whiff. If you try and uzi his ice clone he can just block and slides for the punish same with rocket. Ground pound isn't even an option because its soo slow he can either throw the ice clone on you before the GP comes out or slide or just jump in for the full combo. Unless your trying to do insta GP with PU- and if there is a clone between you and him and he see's you jump he will jump after the 1st time you do it because its now expected.

Right so instead of giving your input you've made it your job to critique what i have said? lol
Do you even play jax?
Have you ever played a takeda that knows exactly what he's doing?
 

Poser Paul

#1 Unbreakable
From what I have played of @st9rm Takeda has his bullshit (Fuck EX Kunai) and some Ronin from Ketchup and Good Dragon. Takeda's normals and armor being so slow cause him real problems in the MU. Even when Takeda is in it is more scarier for him knowing if he fucks up once he is in the Jax blender.
The hardest thing for me is just getting in, I find it the hardest and annoying thing in the world. I get to inpatient and get myself blown up for it
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
The hardest thing for me is just getting in, I find it the hardest and annoying thing in the world. I get to inpatient and get myself blown up for it
Just remember he can't really do much fullscreen apart from annoy you with Kunai. What you can do however is walk in a range where the Takeda wants to claim space with F12 2+4 and jump back, if you get it to whiff he is so much recovery that you can run in and punish.
 

Undergroundepict

I am like the blue rose
Ok, since we cannot agree on Sub Zero and the conversation has only further devolved, I'm going to male make a list.

Note that this list is largely my (semi)informed opinion based on a combination of my own experience, matches I have watched, and information I picked up third hand through conversation and TYM. Feel free to critique it, I have absolutely no issues with dissenting opinions (in fact, this list exists for no other purpose than to stimulate discussion, which generally entails disagreement):

Worst matchup: Shinnok

(Near) Unanimously agreed upon bad matchups:

Kung Lao
Cassie Cage
Predator (HQT in particular)

Matchups other people think are bad but I think are Ok:

GM Sub
Mileena (Not sure if anybody thinks this is a bad MU anymore?)
Kotal Khan
Kano

Matchups that I think are bad that others don't seem to mind:

Liu Kang
Johnny Cage

Matchups I think should be discussed (many of these are probably not bad MU's, but these characters have tools that mess with some of what Jax does from time to time). A.K.A. the on the fence MU's.

Sonya
Ferra Torr
Tanya
Quan Chi
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
Just remember he can't really do much fullscreen apart from annoy you with Kunai. What you can do however is walk in a range where the Takeda wants to claim space with F12 2+4 and jump back, if you get it to whiff he is so much recovery that you can run in and punish.
i think this was mentioned before but i guess he still wants to insist its a bad matchup
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Ok, since we cannot agree on Sub Zero and the conversation has only further devolved, I'm going to male make a list.

Note that this list is largely my (semi)informed opinion based on a combination of my own experience, matches I have watched, and information I picked up third hand through conversation and TYM. Feel free to critique it, I have absolutely no issues with dissenting opinions (in fact, this list exists for no other purpose than to stimulate discussion, which generally entails disagreement):

Worst matchup: Shinnok

(Near) Unanimously agreed upon bad matchups:

Kung Lao
Cassie Cage
Predator (HQT in particular)

Matchups other people think are bad but I think are Ok:

GM Sub
Mileena (Not sure if anybody thinks this is a bad MU anymore?)
Kotal Khan
Kano

Matchups that I think are bad that others don't seem to mind:

Liu Kang
Johnny Cage

Matchups I think should be discussed (many of these are probably not bad MU's, but these characters have tools that mess with some of what Jax does from time to time). A.K.A. the on the fence MU's.
I think Shinnok is not that terrible
Sonya
Ferra Torr
Tanya
Quan Chi
 

Kingshootahz

Ain't nobody trilla than shootah.
Ok, since we cannot agree on Sub Zero and the conversation has only further devolved, I'm going to male make a list.

Note that this list is largely my (semi)informed opinion based on a combination of my own experience, matches I have watched, and information I picked up third hand through conversation and TYM. Feel free to critique it, I have absolutely no issues with dissenting opinions (in fact, this list exists for no other purpose than to stimulate discussion, which generally entails disagreement):

Worst matchup: Shinnok

(Near) Unanimously agreed upon bad matchups:

Kung Lao
Cassie Cage
Predator (HQT in particular)

Matchups other people think are bad but I think are Ok:

GM Sub
Mileena (Not sure if anybody thinks this is a bad MU anymore?)
Kotal Khan
Kano

Matchups that I think are bad that others don't seem to mind:

Liu Kang
Johnny Cage

Matchups I think should be discussed (many of these are probably not bad MU's, but these characters have tools that mess with some of what Jax does from time to time). A.K.A. the on the fence MU's.

Sonya
Ferra Torr
Tanya
Quan Chi
i am not on the fence with sonya and i agree with ferra torr but depends on the variation and tanya is starting to look better and better as i learn the matchup
 

Poser Paul

#1 Unbreakable
Just remember he can't really do much fullscreen apart from annoy you with Kunai. What you can do however is walk in a range where the Takeda wants to claim space with F12 2+4 and jump back, if you get it to whiff he is so much recovery that you can run in and punish.
I'll give a go next time I get a chance, and I'll play more patient too. Thanks man
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
Worst matchup: Shinnok
Agree hes a bad MU
(Near) Unanimously agreed upon bad matchups:

Kung Lao
Cassie Cage
Predator (HQT in particular)
Not played a really good HQT yet but I can see it being bad I never listed it due to lack of MU exp.

Matchups other people think are bad but I think are Ok:

GM Sub
Mileena (Not sure if anybody thinks this is a bad MU anymore?)
Kotal Khan
Kano
Disagree with GM think he overall does better in neutral/corner than we do better against him in neutral/corner. 4-6
Mileena I think we win that MU from playing GabStandard. 6-4
Kotal I think we win 5.5 across all variants
Kano I think is even.

Matchups that I think are bad that others don't seem to mind:

Liu Kang
Johnny Cage
I can see it with Liu (Don't ask them though they will tell you Jax wins 6-4 and that once Jax lands a jab on block the round is over) Liu outzones us and we have to deal with the RC nonsense, Flamefist lets him armor reversal pressure and potentially make it safe based on read, gives him a wakeup and he still keeps the zoning adv. Potential 5.5

JC in A-list gives Jax a hard time in the fireball game and can compete in footsies and while his pokes are slow his pressure is great, he only starts to loose advantage when he is on the back foot. Stunt double does the same in different ways. I have this as a potential 5.5

Matchups I think should be discussed (many of these are probably not bad MU's, but these characters have tools that mess with some of what Jax does from time to time). A.K.A. the on the fence MU's.

Sonya
Ferra Torr
Tanya
Sonya the online princess is a tricky one given that she has a punishable 50/50 and so do we although she capitalizes more depending on which variation of Jax/Sonya (Gap in Jax's low string/CO Parry) Zoning in anyway is risky given that the Sonya can just do a divekick around most of it if they feel like it so you kinda have to play it slow and let her press a lot of buttons and make your way forward in the neutral. I do need to play a good Drone and Grenade Sonya however to get an idea of those MU's as I think they'll do better than CO.

F/T can't really talk about

Tanya I feel we do ok in PU due to the 7 frame EX GG stopping her from staggering rekkas without risk, and it doubles as a nice AA. She has the advantage full screen however I think we take less risk getting out of her pressure than she does getting out of ours. Still would like more exp before I give a number though.
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
Ok, since we cannot agree on Sub Zero and the conversation has only further devolved, I'm going to male make a list.

Note that this list is largely my (semi)informed opinion based on a combination of my own experience, matches I have watched, and information I picked up third hand through conversation and TYM. Feel free to critique it, I have absolutely no issues with dissenting opinions (in fact, this list exists for no other purpose than to stimulate discussion, which generally entails disagreement):

Worst matchup: Shinnok

(Near) Unanimously agreed upon bad matchups:

Kung Lao
Cassie Cage
Predator (HQT in particular)

Matchups other people think are bad but I think are Ok:

GM Sub
Mileena (Not sure if anybody thinks this is a bad MU anymore?)
Kotal Khan
Kano

Matchups that I think are bad that others don't seem to mind:

Liu Kang
Johnny Cage

Matchups I think should be discussed (many of these are probably not bad MU's, but these characters have tools that mess with some of what Jax does from time to time). A.K.A. the on the fence MU's.

Sonya
Ferra Torr
Tanya
Quan Chi

Dude as far as I can tell your the only person disagreeing about sub GM being a bad match up For jax - even poser Paul who initially said he was ok with it stated it was a 6-4 in Subs favour. I know you feel strongly about it and I'm not trying to take that away from you but you should probably be going with the majority vote. Or if you still want to stand your ground about it fine but don't start advertising that as a fact cuz it's not. If you play a GM that is familiar with the jax match up and is a good player you will struggle in that match period.

Have you ever played a takeda that knows exactly what he's doing?
Lol yes and I also play takeda so I know exactly what takeda can and can't do.