Question - Summoner It is time for some real Quan talk

[Zoidberg747]

For everyone saying he is too good...quick question.

Is he one of those characters who doesn't lose a matchup period? This is the grand question of them all. If people can agree that this is not true, you don't really have shit to complain about.

So because a character might have 1-2 bad MUs they arent good and no one can complain about them?

Great, now everyone can stop hating on Tanya

 

[wsj515]

When I say reliable, I mean that the option gets you out of situations better when it lands. Of course most armored moves are unsafe. The fact is, though, they're generally going to be a better option for dealing with your opponents attempts to attack you because they are going to be applicable in more scenarios than a poke could ever be simply because they ignore frame traps for the most part, if not altogether. Hence, more reliable.

Like I said, this game is not only littered with situations where poking not only stops becoming an option, but also contains certain tactics and systematic quirks that do come into play more often than not, and can make using pokes a liability. They do not have the benefit of a reversal mechanic. And again, Quan's d1 is different simply by not possessing anywhere near the same frame advantage a typical d1 will have. It will give him some room, but again, it's not the room other characters get. It's better, but not the option people are making it out to be, and doesn't mask that Quan still doesn't handle being forced to block as well as a vast majority of the cast. Yeah, he can do another d1...that d1 isn't even a guaranteed option. Hell, even without armor, the opponent can backdash out of the next d1. You can't do this with other pokes. It is a purely defensive option that doesn't even give him the same luxury of forcing the opponent to actually have to respect a fast normal he can do. It's a much higher level of conditioning that makes his d1's rewarding levels not as high.

It's simply an area Quan is weaker in than the rest of the cast. He has options for defense without armor, but to say that he is okay on defense is kind of a stretch. He's not, and, outside of Warlock, never will be (that's fine, btw). Armor is a huge chunk of the defense in this game. You can't say that the lack of it is overblown, because it's not. Especially when you watch a Quan get sent to the corner, and just get mauled into oblivion. This doesn't just happen to random Quans. Michaelangelo, Ketchup, King, Dink...it's not something they're immune to just by being good players themselves.

I won't deny Quan might be the best in the game, though. That's how powerful his toolset is. But I don't see how a character like him couldn't have matchups not in his favor. His design just doesn't allow that.

I hear what you are saying, and agree with you to an extent, but I still (and will probably always) think its not nearly the hole that the Quan community makes it out to be, and they are just selling themselves short by saying Quan loses the moment the opponent gets in.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Hey I'm the conductor of the Reptile bandwagon. So if you want on, you gotta go through me. I have a wonderful monthly pass we just rolled out.

I've been on the Reptile bandwagon since 2011, hold that!

 

[The_Tile]

Great, now everyone can stop hating on Tanya

People are hating on Tanya not because she's potentially best in the game, but because Kobu is braindead and boring as fuck.

 

[Nortnauq]

whats so good about reptile now? is it in his deceptive? what can it do?

Invisible 50/50's.

 

[Rude]

My two cents:

No big deal about the d1, but did he really need the chargeable back 2 and air skull combos? That's really all I have for a character who I have a winning matchup against. (Imposter Shinnok.)

I would definitely rather fight Boneshaper.

Imposter kicks THE SHIT out of Quan across all three variations. I've yet to figure this one out, but Imposter getting Trance is a game changer in that MU.

 

[TamedLizard]

I've been on the Reptile bandwagon since 2011, hold that!

1993. Hold THAT.

 

[buyacushun]

I've been on the Reptile bandwagon since 2011, hold that!

1993. Hold THAT.

Yeah but my modern 2015 Reptile bandwagon doesn't just go invisible. It can slow down time AND get really smelly. . . .so hold that. Oh and my Reptile bandwagon isn't just a mish mash of the sub zero and scorpion bandwagons. So hold that two times.

 

[DuBBer Kiir]

So because a character might have 1-2 bad MUs they arent good and no one can complain about them?

Great, now everyone can stop hating on Tanya

Comments like these are why these threads go nowhere, taking stuff out of context. I don't think anybody is saying Quan isn't god tier. For instance, Kabal was god tier, because he had EVERYTHING. He had zoning, rushdown, and great defensive options with ex nomad dash. He was easily A+ or s tier imo. Couldn't be locked down. In a game where rushdown is so good (MKX), a lot of characters, not just summoner Quan, can suffer.

Show me match footage right now of Quan winning entirely from zoning in a high level tournament setting, or vortexing somebody to death, and I want to see a touch of death, not just 1 or two loops (because apparently quan can touch of death with little to no effort so there should be plenty of footage of it, especially since he's been this broken since day 1).

And then when you give me that, I'll go ahead and find matches of Quan stuck in the corner getting pressured literally to death.

 

[TamedLizard]

Yeah but my modern 2015 Reptile bandwagon doesn't just go invisible. It can slow down time AND get really smelly. . . .so hold that. Oh and my Reptile bandwagon isn't just a mish mash of the sub zero and scorpion bandwagons. So hold that two times.

Oh you mean the mish mash of Chronos and Pepe Le Pew bandwagons? Also, that's totally 1992 Reptile you're referri... aw fuck it.

Just gimme the damn pass.

 

[THTB]

So because a character might have 1-2 bad MUs they arent good and no one can complain about them?

Great, now everyone can stop hating on Tanya

Hey, I never said he wasn't good lol. Gotsta be a damn fool to think that.

Nah, I explained in my previous posts. He might be the best. But he'd be one of the weaker best characters in an NRS game due to his own issues.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Comments like these are why these threads go nowhere, taking stuff out of context. I don't think anybody is saying Quan isn't god tier. For instance, Kabal was god tier, because he had EVERYTHING. He had zoning, rushdown, and great defensive options with ex nomad dash. He was easily A+ or s tier imo. Couldn't be locked down. In a game where rushdown is so good (MKX), a lot of characters, not just summoner Quan, can suffer.

Show me match footage right now of Quan winning entirely from zoning in a high level tournament setting, or vortexing somebody to death, and I want to see a touch of death, not just 1 or two loops (because apparently quan can touch of death with little to no effort so there should be plenty of footage of it, especially since he's been this broken since day 1).

And then when you give me that, I'll go ahead and find matches of Quan stuck in the corner getting pressured literally to death.

I play Tanya and I play(or played) against a very good Quan player Koreythedragon(the guy who beat REO at EGL). What some people arent understanding is his zoning alone is good in a vacuum, but ridiculous with his other tools. His zoning forces you to make a move and take a risk. The only time he cant blow you up for moving is after a regular rune, in which case you can run in. This would be fine except when you finally get in he is still at a huge advantage because all it takes is one 50/50 and you are in a vortex. Yes the more damaging setups can be beaten with run, jabs, etc. But a smart Quan will adapt and just start doing the 50/50s or hard to blockable.

Playing as Tanya I also know his weaknesses. When I played against Korey my only goal was to pressure him until he was dead, and PREPATCH Tanya could definitely do that with block infinites. Now though those characters got nerfed and he has maybe 1-2 characters who can still block infinite him. His defense is bad, no question. However characters that aren't pressure characters get bodied by him because he has everything else other than defense.

All that being said I dont really mind any of that. He's a glass cannon, I get it. The only two things I find truly broke are:

1. His hard to blockable. I know that you cant convert if the bat hits last, and even when Korey did the bat then b2 I would still get hit because he would just change the timing of the block a frame or two. I practiced for weeks trying to get it down and I never did, maybe its just my bad timing but I will never understand why he needs that on top of all his 50/50s and damage. which brings me to number 2:

2.His damage. Not only does he have the best mixups in the game, but he also has some of the best damage as well. All he needs is two repitions of his vortex before he can kill you with a mid 40s combo. Not to mention now that they buffed him he gets 40-50% unbreakable combos.

If they tone those two things down I dont think nearly as many people would be complaining. Until then Summoner Quan players should stop trying to defend their incredibly dumb character and just enjoy the fact that their character is so good. (I say the same thing to Tanya players before people jump down my throat. She's still dumb).

Edit:

People are hating on Tanya not because she's potentially best in the game, but because Kobu is braindead and boring as fuck.

Thats probably because they nerfed two huge parts of her game and made her have a more simple strategy. The nerfs were necessary but also left Tanya players with very few ways to play her, so of course now most Kobu players will play the same way. I also would like to say people saying she is braindead to try and fight top players with her and succeed, because once people know the MU she is not nearly as braindead as people think she is.

 

[DuBBer Kiir]

I play Tanya and I play(or played) against a very good Quan player Koreythedragon(the guy who beat REO at EGL). What some people arent understanding is his zoning alone is good in a vacuum, but ridiculous with his other tools. His zoning forces you to make a move and take a risk. The only time he cant blow you up for moving is after a regular rune, in which case you can run in. This would be fine except when you finally get in he is still at a huge advantage because all it takes is one 50/50 and you are in a vortex. Yes the more damaging setups can be beaten with run, jabs, etc. But a smart Quan will adapt and just start doing the 50/50s or hard to blockable.

Playing as Tanya I also know his weaknesses. When I played against Korey my only goal was to pressure him until he was dead, and PREPATCH Tanya could definitely do that with block infinites. Now though those characters got nerfed and he has maybe 1-2 characters who can still block infinite him. His defense is bad, no question. However characters that aren't pressure characters get bodied by him because he has everything else other than defense.

All that being said I dont really mind any of that. He's a glass cannon, I get it. The only two things I find truly broke are:

1. His hard to blockable. I know that you cant convert if the bat hits last, and even when Korey did the bat then b2 I would still get hit because he would just change the timing of the block a frame or two. I practiced for weeks trying to get it down and I never did, maybe its just my bad timing but I will never understand why he needs that on top of all his 50/50s and damage. which brings me to number 2:

2.His damage. Not only does he have the best mixups in the game, but he also has some of the best damage as well. All he needs is two repitions of his vortex before he can kill you with a mid 40s combo. Not to mention now that they buffed him he gets 40-50% unbreakable combos.

If they tone those two things down I dont think nearly as many people would be complaining. Until then Summoner Quan players should stop trying to defend their incredibly dumb character and just enjoy the fact that their character is so good. (I say the same thing to Tanya players before people jump down my throat. She's still dumb).

Edit:

Thats probably because they nerfed two huge parts of her game and made her have a more simple strategy. The nerfs were necessary but also left Tanya players with very few ways to play her, so of course now most Kobu players will play the same way. I also would like to say people saying she is braindead to try and fight top players with her and succeed, because once people know the MU she is not nearly as braindead as people think she is.

I actually agree with everything you're saying, but it's weird because these threads were started to complain about his buffs, his zoning and mixups haven't really changed since day 1, and last I checked, sonic fox was winning everything with Erron Black before the patch. But I do agree with you and everybody who is hating in Quan right now, just please for the love of god don't make it to where they take everything from him. He sucked in mk9, give him a chance to be top tier this time around....

 

[OnlineSkunk]

So you gon be a chikn then brah?

Let's raise the stakes: Quan Chi (Summoner) vs Kung Lao (Tempest) FT10 on Pig of the Hut Twitch channel where more people would watch it since you wanna play me so bad, I don't turn down challenges. You going to have to wait 2 weeks just so I can get my execution down.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Let's raise the stakes: Quan Chi (Summoner) vs Kung Lao (Tempest) FT10 on Pig of the Hut Twitch channel where more people would watch it since you wanna play me so bad, I don't turn down challenges. You going to have to wait 2 weeks just so I can get my execution down.

That's not raising the stakes lol but you've proven my point by not accepting the challenge to mirror. If it takes you 2 weeks to get your execution up you don't stand a chance anyway.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Hey, I never said he wasn't good lol. Gotsta be a damn fool to think that.

Nah, I explained in my previous posts. He might be the best. But he'd be one of the weaker best characters in an NRS game due to his own issues.

Although one could argue that there are characters without bad matchups in MKX still.

Discussion point: Theoretically, if Quan had bad matchups, but a few other chars had none, could Quan still be the best in the game?

 

[OnlineSkunk]

That's not raising the stakes lol but you've proven my point by not accepting the challenge to mirror. If it takes you 2 weeks to get your execution up you don't stand a chance anyway.

WTF who told you I've played Quan Chi ever, the hell you been trying to mirror match me this whole time seriously WOAH

 

[OnlineSkunk]

WTF who told you I've played Quan Chi ever, the hell you been trying to mirror match me this whole time seriously WOAH

Oh and it's not just my execution, I was gonna go through all of my options in every situation I may encounter since Quan Chi is a one touch your dead character I gotta make sure you don't get too many turns LOL

 

[Zoidberg747]

Although one could argue that there are characters without bad matchups in MKX still.

Discussion point: Theoretically, if Quan had bad matchups, but a few other chars had none, could Quan still be the best in the game?

No, but Cyrax wasnt the best in the game and he was still hella dumb.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

No, but Cyrax wasnt the best in the game and he was still hella dumb.

Hey, at least Quan CAN kill you if he hits you once, Cyrax WILL kill you if he hits you once! Haha!

 

[GAV]

Although one could argue that there are characters without bad matchups in MKX still.

Discussion point: Theoretically, if Quan had bad matchups, but a few other chars had none, could Quan still be the best in the game?

Of course, but that would mean that the game were very balanced - at least at the top.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Hey, at least Quan CAN kill you if he hits you once, Cyrax WILL kill you if he hits you once! Haha!

I remember all too well.

 

[Rude]

Oh and it's not just my execution, I was gonna go through all of my options in every situation I may encounter since Quan Chi is a one touch your dead character I gotta make sure you don't get too many turns LOL

The excuses begin.

This match will never happen and if it does, you're toast.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I honestly think I can beat you Quan too if my Tempest Lao combos were on point right now but I work 40 hours a week and I haven't been playing much, mostly watching YOMI and other players streams on twitch, however I'm 100% confident I'm a better than you.

I'll keep your challenge in mind but as of now I just kinda curious to know how does challenging someone using the character he is clearly stating is broken proving a point somehow ?

if anything, he should play Lao and you play Quan, so he can prove how easy it is to beat Quan. Because what the hell does beating someone with the character you are downplaying prove lol
And why is he suddenly asking for a mirror match? You have to beat his day 0 Quan with a character you don't play, not prove that Quan isn't OP in relation to THE REST of the cast? Lol it makes no sense

I wouldn't want to see a character get destroyed because we are whining relentlessly instead of playing.

I love how when a very balanced character has his balance thrown out the window with unnecessary buffs because it's community made a thread bitching for buffs because they only got top 5 at EVO, that's fine, but when people say maybe the buffs were unnecessary, it's "relentless whining trying to get the character destroyed". Lol. I can't see this as anything but one-sided.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

I remember all too well.

Nothing beat the feeling and face you made when that net finally got you