All I can say then is play more people competent in the match up. lol He seems "solid" to anyone when people constantly fall for his shit, don't duck check outside of f2 range, don't punish his negative frames, etc. He's too easy to exploit in his current state.i honestly dont think swamp thing is as bad as people think, but fuck it if it gets him a buff eventually ill take it
Captain Cold has a total of like 8 strings. All start high but one. Hell, one string is High, High, High. His only overhead sans F3 is behind a high. Doing 12 (High, Overhead) into his low ice special is read seperately and do not combo together. His trait is great, but he never gets to use it against anyone zoning or rushing down on you. When you do get it off, at best, you get a free combo set up into pressure that can be easily guessed/blocked. He looks intimidating on the surface, but he's totally lacking in tools to keep up in majority of matchups.
I laughed way harder at this then I probably should have.That's harsh. Some might even say that's....
Cold
Dude you are downplaying the fuck out of him.
So you are hitconfirming Ji1 S1, into 2U2? because if you press 12 you are punishable, you are saying that his only safe hitconfirmable opener is Ji1 and that's it. That's fucking ABYSMAL compared to what the rest of the cast has to work with, and thats before you factor in his floaty ass jump.
50/50's with Divekick. Right. So the low option is what, D1~Charge?
Absolutely wrong. For starters it's spacing dependant, not dependant on how instant you input it. If you hit them at the edge of their hitbox you can go down to like -4. So that's a situational way to make REGULAR Divekick safe which isn't a combo starter. MB Divekick cannot be made safe unless you whiff the first hit, and somehow manage to hit the second hit meaty as fuck, which is impractical as hell, and even attempting to do so will get you AA'd or whiff punished before the second hit
Well, if you are going to contest that the combo's we have all been using are subpar, the onus is kind of on you to share these great damage combos, rather than just expecting us to take your word for it.
Deadshot can pop you out of the air easy if you try to use it at any other time than during ex assault rifle,, the entire cast can punish that on read with MB roll, so that's hardly an awesome counter zoning tool. Trying to use it against BB, Cyborg, Batman, Deadshot during literally anything else than a telepathic read on ex lowshots, and see how far you get, you are better off playing the ground game, even that which he does worst than most because of his walkspeed. At least his dash range is sick tho. Grapple is useful against some zoners. I didn't say it's worthless, I'd rather have it than not. But it is floaty as FUCK and there isn't a projectile in the game other than his own that doesn't recover in time to anti-air, and being that they tried to base the character around this is ridiculous
D2's dodge trait unless you use slow trait, in which case you are launching the trait before you've even jumped, in which case there is a million ways to deal with that stopping your anti air, including but not at all limited to walking back slightly so that the slow trait whiffs. That might work against a mannequin, against anyone else its a free dash in or a free projectile.
Because he's the character I dropped Brainiac for so the immediate comparison, but practically everyone except dedicated zoners get what Brainiac gets without needing the ridiculous amount of work to do so.
Yeah so it's a dash attack. Not an invincible wake up. Has no iframes, so it doesn't get you out of pressure, being able to be used as another unsafe mid doesn't change that, I already covered that.
Playing Brainiac might have made you forget, but there's other ways in than jumping. Regardless I already covered that as well when I said "But he ppl will still lose to it and stay jumping into his D2 all day, so meh just like CSZ he'll stay Hercule tier". D2 is his strength. I agree. Thus he will beat ppl.
Have a look at some other character's F3's and rethink this statement.
Oh
Protip: they aren't. Do not trust framedata for moves like this that allow you to start moving again before they hit. Or do you also think it's 10f start-up, literally faster than Firestorms projectile? It's nowhere even close to that amount of block stun, on a move that you can't even trade with or it disappears, and goes away on both hit AND block.
Well, JI2 is my preferred choice. But I'm not saying his only hit confirmable opener is the jump in, just that I think that and punishes are the main uses for his launching string. B2 is hit confirmable, and safe. F2 string is hit confirmable.
Confirm into what, Drill? There is no combo there outside of 2bar bounce cancels which is extremely mediocre compared to the cast. Regarldess, B2 isn't hitconfirmable. F2 is high, and like +20f start up, and also doesn't combo either, you confirm it into trait and nothing else really.
Yes so basically an 50/50 that leads to nothing and is unsafe unless you spend meter, as I said. Having an overhead and having a low doesn't mean you have a good mix.
Yes, his mix is a real in the corner, with trait set-up. That's my whole point. He unlocks what other characters can do standard, except requiring a set-up and one that is particularly hard to hold on to. It's not even a matter of needing more work execution wise (which is fine), he just has to jump through additional hoops gameplay wise and there is no payoff - he can still be punished on the Divekick, 12U2 still has gaps, his damage with trait is no larger than the rest of the cast for a bar, and what does he do against one of this games safe wake ups except lose that set-up entirely?
fair assumption, but its safety is actually relevant to where you connect with your opponents body and how long it takes you to drop
That's really nothing special and I think literally every character who has access to that sort of damage has a safe opener. Characters do more damage than this off safe strings often mixes - whats the trade off here for that unsafety and less damage, even if MB divekick isn't wet noodle damage thats not what i was saying.
You right, I'm not saying it's useless and it gives him options. It however is most definitely not what I'd call an awesome counter zoning tool, it does nothing against most the cast.
Plenty of D2's will cover all options. Almost every single cast member has some sort of excellent AA option that at the very least covers against Brainiac.
I don't disagree with the AA part, you just can't jump at him from even a range where your jump ins will whiff lol. However I don't think getting in on him is that difficult, block a B12 or an S3 or any of his mids and you are at massive advantage. Fuck it up, oh well what 150 damage or whatever? its not like he gets to combo off it. His movespeed is wack as hell which impacts his footsies too. iADK deserves a mention here for being difficult to approach into tho to be fair. I think this is the best use for that move.
Well not on start-up, which is the relevant part here. You are free to continue your pressure against brainiac on knockdown, its encouraged to do so.
It's not a bad button. It's just nothing special.
It's very plus. If they block it you get to go into what you like. The problem is that his follow ups are still ass without it, no real pressure, especially since you guaranteed don't have trait if you just used it to beta bomb, and as always the set-ups for it are pretty lame too, compared to what the rest of the cast is getting rewarded with for the same connection.
When people talk about having a safe mid, its implied they are talking about opener. Otherwise practically every character ever has that with D1. Even in this sense, assuming he actually had a launcher to cancel into, none of what you mentioned is hitconfirmable. B2 isn't hitconfirmable. My hitconfirms aren't wack at all either I've defied everyone whose doubted them
This is completely unrelated to the thread but if your available Friday or Sunday I'd like to do a set with you and whoever you play in Injustice 2. I suck at Injustice. It isn't natural to me the way MKX was - but I'm curious as to where Reptile mains went. I don't know that I'm going to stick with blue beetle but thats where I've gone to thus far. I'm on PSN.
Just on this note, if Flash isn't a good comparison, we can use the other character I'm playing Cyborg. He definitely has excellent space control and excellent zoning. Brainiac's biggest combo I know of is MB Divekick, F3, S3~Charge release drone, S3~DB2, which does ~450 damage on Superman, ~530 if you ex the finish (correct me if you know a bigger one). Cyborg gets ~430 damage in the corner for 1 bar, ~550 for two. Where's the payoff for that trait set-up? It cost you having to use a pathetic damage combo to set-up, and then making the correct read and getting in again, spending a bar before confirming the hit, being unsafe, and having to completely dodge wake-ups including not blocking, just to pull that off. If I get them same two combos with Cyborg in the corner, I've done more damage and didn't have to jump through the hoops. And Cyborg is not exactly some top tier monster.
If you think Black Canary is better than Atrocitus then you are not capable of making even an early tier list.
i disagree with his tier list, but thats a little harsh. Atrocitus is gonna fall off the deep end once ppl learn to deal with it. This man might just have more foresight than you do
If you say so.. I see people learning the Atrocitus matchup. But I dont see Atrocitus falling off by any means if he stays the way he is.
Not even gonna lie, I miss him lol
I can't really disagree strongly with any of your points - individually, they're valid. However I'm not sure those points add up to him being an unviable piece of trash. To me, as long as a character has - at most - one (ish) 3-7 matchups, he's viable. He will take more work, but it's possible. Do you think he has more than one?
A stand for atrocitus when real Player like me play him
Would you say he's "abysmal"?Dude, he's trash. I'll just list some shit off the top of my head on why he's so terrible:
- his walk speed is atrocious
- his jump is way too floaty
- his dash is trash and MBing it yields no reward in the neutral due to how fast these zoners recover on whiff.
- he has a gap in virtually every single string he has. Fucking stupid.
- his plus frames are useless outside of the corner
- his f3 and b3 are incredibly slow. They need to be sped the fuck up and f3 needs to be given some plus frames as well and/or have its hitbox fixed.
- vine grabs are easy to react to AND easily punishable on whiff being -40. They need to be allowed to be MB granting a hit of armor. Also the up vine grab is a ridiculous input. Any AA type movement should be simple so it can be used on reaction.
- d1xxgreen thumb doesn't tick properly. The opponent can mash out which is dumb given he's a grappler.
- log kick is absolutely horrendous on whiff and punishable on block. This is totally illogical. One or the other. Also it's easily fuzzyable during his "50/50s." I'd make it -5 on block and keep it terrible on whiff.
- His db2 is high when it should be mid.
- his trait is fairly useless. Aside from a couple corner set ups, it's easy to deal with; just push block and it's gone.
- his clone is high making it seemingly useless when trying to counterzone and the MB clone doesn't hold the opponent long enough on trade to even gain some ground. The clone needs to be MID. Also the additional hit afterward on MB clone is so stupid. It should just grab the opponent for combo extension purposes, not knockdown.
- his standing 2 is 30 frames. 30 fucking frames. Lmao Logical.
*- his f233 and b223 strings recover way too slow making hitting combos after them nearly, if not impossible midscreen depending on the opponent. The recover of both on hit needs to be sped up drastically. (This one is a massive issue)
I'm not even done. lol He's fucking terrible. But he has a couple redeeming qualities:
The good
- d2 ticks into green thumb
- he has a decent corner game
- he hurts when he finally hits the opponent
Sick. That'll win him some majors!
Yeah not: I'll just roll my face on the pad with Black Adam or Superman til something is fixed. Why even try when characters in this game play it for you? Lol
