I don't think it's too early for a really broad tier grouping...

[D. R.]

I don't know if he's the worst, but he's one of them. Once players know to duck his vines in neutral, begin to block his F23 footsie mixups (and punish the hella negative options accordingly), and jab or early jump in/crossup him out of his wakeup, he falls the fuck apart.

Which is fine. NRS will probably make him amazing in 9 months lol.

Dude, he's trash. I'll just list some shit off the top of my head on why he's so terrible:

- his walk speed is atrocious
- his jump is way too floaty
- his dash is trash and MBing it yields no reward in the neutral due to how fast these zoners recover on whiff.
- he has a gap in virtually every single string he has. Fucking stupid.
- his plus frames are useless outside of the corner
- his f3 and b3 are incredibly slow. They need to be sped the fuck up and f3 needs to be given some plus frames as well and/or have its hitbox fixed.
- vine grabs are easy to react to AND easily punishable on whiff being -40. They need to be allowed to be MB granting a hit of armor. Also the up vine grab is a ridiculous input. Any AA type movement should be simple so it can be used on reaction.
- d1xxgreen thumb doesn't tick properly. The opponent can mash out which is dumb given he's a grappler.
- log kick is absolutely horrendous on whiff and punishable on block. This is totally illogical. One or the other. Also it's easily fuzzyable during his "50/50s." I'd make it -5 on block and keep it terrible on whiff.
- His db2 is high when it should be mid.
- his trait is fairly useless. Aside from a couple corner set ups, it's easy to deal with; just push block and it's gone.
- his clone is high making it seemingly useless when trying to counterzone and the MB clone doesn't hold the opponent long enough on trade to even gain some ground. The clone needs to be MID. Also the additional hit afterward on MB clone is so stupid. It should just grab the opponent for combo extension purposes, not knockdown.
- his standing 2 is 30 frames. 30 fucking frames. Lmao Logical.
*- his f233 and b223 strings recover way too slow making hitting combos after them nearly, if not impossible midscreen depending on the opponent. The recover of both on hit needs to be sped up drastically. (This one is a massive issue)

I'm not even done. lol He's fucking terrible. But he has a couple redeeming qualities:

The good
- d2 ticks into green thumb
- he has a decent corner game
- he hurts when he finally hits the opponent

Sick. That'll win him some majors!

Yeah not: I'll just roll my face on the pad with Black Adam or Superman til something is fixed. Why even try when characters in this game play it for you? Lol

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

I feel like this list is mostly based off popularity more than anything else.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Dude, he's trash. I'll just list some shit off the top of my head on why he's so terrible:

- his walk speed is atrocious
- his jump is way too floaty
- his dash is trash and MBing it yields no reward in the neutral due to how fast these zoners recover on whiff.
- he has a gap in virtually every single string he has. Fucking stupid.
- his plus frames are useless outside of the corner
- his f3 and b3 are incredibly slow. They need to be sped the fuck up and f3 needs to be given some plus frames as well and/or have its hitbox fixed.
- vine grabs are easy to react to AND easily punishable on whiff being -40. They need to be allowed to be MB granting a hit of armor. Also the up vine grab is a ridiculous input. Any AA type movement should be simple so it can be used on reaction.
- d1xxgreen thumb doesn't tick properly. The opponent can mash out which is dumb given he's a grappler.
- log kick is absolutely horrendous on whiff and punishable on block. This is totally illogical. One or the other. Also it's easily fuzzyable during his "50/50s." I'd make it -5 on block and keep it terrible on whiff.
- His db2 is high when it should be mid.
- his trait is fairly useless. Aside from a couple corner set ups, it's easy to deal with; just push block and it's gone.
- his clone is high making it seemingly useless when trying to counterzone and the MB clone doesn't hold the opponent long enough on trade to even gain some ground. The clone needs to be MID. Also the additional hit afterward on MB clone is so stupid. It should just grab the opponent for combo extension purposes, not knockdown.
- his standing 2 is 30 frames. 30 fucking frames. Lmao Logical.
*- his f233 and b223 strings recover way too slow making hitting combos after them nearly, if not impossible midscreen depending on the opponent. The recover of both on hit needs to be sped up drastically. (This one is a massive issue)

I'm not even done. lol He's fucking terrible. But he has a couple redeeming qualities:

The good
- d2 ticks into green thumb
- he has a decent corner game
- he hurts when he finally hits the opponent

Sick. That'll win him some majors!

Yeah not: I'll just roll my face on the pad with Black Adam or Superman til something is fixed. Why even try when characters in this game play it for you? Lol

You're not wrong man.

If his MB clone held for combos or dashes on trade vs zoning, sped up some of his normals (F3/B3), made his log slightly less punishable, and his tick throws more legit he'd be in a much better place.

 

[snort]

Atrocious is top tier, not B tier. Damn near OP trait or arguably OP.

 

[weedking]

harley, superman, catwoman, bane, cpt cold etc same tier like fate, brainiac, flash, LOL!
batman and black adam are S tier

people sleeping on cheetah and green arrow, give it more time

 

[ABACABB]

I think more chars from B tier should be in A tier and I would move deadshot from A to B . Hes good but not that good . Black canary too.

 

[RNLDRGN]

I think more chars from B tier should be in A tier and I would move deadshot from A to B . Hes good but not that good .

I absolutely think that's gonna happen over time. Right now no one really seems to have a good reliable answer to Deadshot (at least not that I've seen on a regular basis) but it'll happen soon enough. And characters like Atrocitus are pretty complex and will absolutely be a force going forward as more and more pressure/tech/trait use is improved.

 

[ABACABB]

Black adam , batman , supergirl , catwoman ,darkseid , mb roll here is answer

but lets not make this thread another deadshot thread

 

[Crimson Panther]

The problem with making a thread like this, good intentions or not, is that it will inevitably bring in toxic behavior about (fill in the blank) character. Whether they think they're too strong or too weak.

There are A LOT of people on this site just waiting for an opening to talk about it. I get your intentions @RNLDRGN but that's just the nature of this beast.

However, about Supergirl; in my opinion, she's quite good and probably slept on by a lot of people. That being said, as of right now, I put her upper mid to very low high.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

Dude, he's trash. I'll just list some shit off the top of my head on why he's so terrible:

- his walk speed is atrocious
- his jump is way too floaty
- his dash is trash and MBing it yields no reward in the neutral due to how fast these zoners recover on whiff.
- he has a gap in virtually every single string he has. Fucking stupid.
- his plus frames are useless outside of the corner
- his f3 and b3 are incredibly slow. They need to be sped the fuck up and f3 needs to be given some plus frames as well and/or have its hitbox fixed.
- vine grabs are easy to react to AND easily punishable on whiff being -40. They need to be allowed to be MB granting a hit of armor. Also the up vine grab is a ridiculous input. Any AA type movement should be simple so it can be used on reaction.
- d1xxgreen thumb doesn't tick properly. The opponent can mash out which is dumb given he's a grappler.
- log kick is absolutely horrendous on whiff and punishable on block. This is totally illogical. One or the other. Also it's easily fuzzyable during his "50/50s." I'd make it -5 on block and keep it terrible on whiff.
- His db2 is high when it should be mid.
- his trait is fairly useless. Aside from a couple corner set ups, it's easy to deal with; just push block and it's gone.
- his clone is high making it seemingly useless when trying to counterzone and the MB clone doesn't hold the opponent long enough on trade to even gain some ground. The clone needs to be MID. Also the additional hit afterward on MB clone is so stupid. It should just grab the opponent for combo extension purposes, not knockdown.
- his standing 2 is 30 frames. 30 fucking frames. Lmao Logical.
*- his f233 and b223 strings recover way too slow making hitting combos after them nearly, if not impossible midscreen depending on the opponent. The recover of both on hit needs to be sped up drastically. (This one is a massive issue)

I'm not even done. lol He's fucking terrible. But he has a couple redeeming qualities:

The good
- d2 ticks into green thumb
- he has a decent corner game
- he hurts when he finally hits the opponent

Sick. That'll win him some majors!

Yeah not: I'll just roll my face on the pad with Black Adam or Superman til something is fixed. Why even try when characters in this game play it for you? Lol

How right you are. I labbed him hard when I wasn't playing matches with Bane/Aquaman and just so much of his kit doesn't make sense. I think they were very, very scared of making him overly oppressive given the amount of tools he has and what they could do with just a few fixes.

 

[Buiu]

Swamp Things is the new Vanilha Goro, it will take like 5 patches to become top tier

 

[RNLDRGN]

The problem with making a thread like this, good intentions or not, is that it will inevitably bring in toxic behavior about (fill in the blank) character. Whether they think they're too strong or too weak.

There are A LOT of people on this site just waiting for an opening to talk about it. I get your intentions @RNLDRGN but that's just the nature of this beast.

However, about Supergirl; in my opinion, she's quite good and probably slept on by a lot of people. That being said, as of right now, I put her upper mid to very low high.

Youre not wrong, but it is TYM. Ppl are gonna do that regardless. I just wanted to start a dialogue on who ppl think are strong and why. And to see how far off ppl think I am.

I honestly think 75% of this site gets pissed anytime there's a general thread that's not about tech, tournament results, or just old fashioned shitposting lol.

And yeah I think Supergirl is pretty well rounded. Just bc I lost to one online doesn't mean we can't talk about how good she is or isn't lol.

 

[B. Shazzy]

supergirl c tier

 

[gam224]

2.5-3months is when people know how the tiers play out

 

[Tony at Home]

"I'm keeping it broad and generic with just 3 tiers and no order within each."

I kinda gotta call BS on "no order within each"

Aquaman on top of A and Canary on bottom of A. Atrocitus near the top of B and Grodd on the bottom of B.

C'mon dude, there's a heavily implied order here

 

[Name v.5.0]

Checks for Grodd in C tier...Nope.

 

[ChatterBox]

Lol it's a damn forum. Of course it's not too early for this. It's just fun discussion. Do people not realize that tier lists are ever changing and apply to the current meta of the game... Jesus you guys must be lots of fun at parties.

Back to the list:
I think cyborg is actually really good. Top 3 zoning in the game. Very good plus frames. Can punish close to 40% now. Amazing f3 and b3. Good jump ins. I have him in my top ten easily.

I came here to agree with each specific thing said in this post. People are sleeping on Cyborg I think.

Firestorm seems really good at the moment, his only weakness seems to be AA, but it's just cause we all want a combo instead of just swatting people out of the air.

Beetle I have trouble with, he has all this crazy stuff that just seems to be tiny resets or big gimmicks. People keep saying he's secretly Kabal risen again, but from playing as him I haven't felt that way. His fireball is great, and there are some mean things you can do with those long arms, but the matchups have to be fleshed out way more to know when to switch out. Time will tell, but he's hard to use this early.

WoWo is rough. She wants to be midscreen with everyone, but her tools don't seem great enough in that range for her to have such trouble up close and full screen. Then everything she does knocks them away or sacrifices a lot of damage. Then there's the random trait that will never stop feeling like a slight from the last game, even though she's a totally new character. She lacks damaging mixups, plus frames, a good hit confirm string, a fullscreen option, and has slow ranged normals. There are zoners and rushdown characters in this game that have all those things so I'm not sure why she couldn't be trusted with some of them. She may be better than I suspect at the moment, but man oh man is it hard to play her against a lot of this cast.

Those are the only three I've played enough to have a true opinion on.

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

I think Super Girl is good. She has decent damage, good mobility, a free overhead crossup into B3 (ppl still aren't blocking this, myself included) and solid zoning w trait.

And I think Black Canary is top tier simply bc of how quickly she gets trait, her ability to re-stand, and her ridiculous damage. After Black Adam, she strikes me as one of the members of the cast who hits WAY too hard. Yes she relies heavily on trait, but once she gets in and mixes you up once your lifebar is pretty much gone. Cross up overhead leg-lock that leads into B3 for big damage is ridiculously good.

Other Canary players might have their own opinions, but you are ignoring her cons. She has a hard time getting in on zoners and she is really unsafe on most, if not all of her strings. Yeah, she has a good trait, but it doesn't charge in-between rounds and it has to go through 3 levels before you get that awesome version of it. What cons does Black Adam have? He doesn't have a low starter? Not going to try and give her a "tier placing", but I will say that she is one of the better designed characters in the cast, in that she has very clear pros and very clear flaws.

 

[T-box88]

Idk, I don't know enough about the game yet to really comment, but I feel that the best characters are Black Adam, Batman, Aquaman, Superman, Atrocitus, and Deadshot. With Catwoman, Flash, Lantern, Harley, Robin, and Arrow not far behind. Fate, Supergirl, Darkseid, Bane, and Ivy are somewhere in the good but not amazing area. Swamp Thing and Brainiac are the worst to me, anyone not mentioned I have no clue.

Darkseid and Supergirl are extremely over rated by almost everyone btw, I think playing them online makes them way way better, no coincidence since they are tele characters.

Aqua, dead shot, black atom, atro, maybe supes- f2 being a high now fucking blows lol.

 

[Wemfs]

Dude, he's trash. I'll just list some shit off the top of my head on why he's so terrible:

- his walk speed is atrocious
- his jump is way too floaty
- his dash is trash and MBing it yields no reward in the neutral due to how fast these zoners recover on whiff.
- he has a gap in virtually every single string he has. Fucking stupid.
- his plus frames are useless outside of the corner
- his f3 and b3 are incredibly slow. They need to be sped the fuck up and f3 needs to be given some plus frames as well and/or have its hitbox fixed.
- vine grabs are easy to react to AND easily punishable on whiff being -40. They need to be allowed to be MB granting a hit of armor. Also the up vine grab is a ridiculous input. Any AA type movement should be simple so it can be used on reaction.
- d1xxgreen thumb doesn't tick properly. The opponent can mash out which is dumb given he's a grappler.
- log kick is absolutely horrendous on whiff and punishable on block. This is totally illogical. One or the other. Also it's easily fuzzyable during his "50/50s." I'd make it -5 on block and keep it terrible on whiff.
- His db2 is high when it should be mid.
- his trait is fairly useless. Aside from a couple corner set ups, it's easy to deal with; just push block and it's gone.
- his clone is high making it seemingly useless when trying to counterzone and the MB clone doesn't hold the opponent long enough on trade to even gain some ground. The clone needs to be MID. Also the additional hit afterward on MB clone is so stupid. It should just grab the opponent for combo extension purposes, not knockdown.
- his standing 2 is 30 frames. 30 fucking frames. Lmao Logical.
*- his f233 and b223 strings recover way too slow making hitting combos after them nearly, if not impossible midscreen depending on the opponent. The recover of both on hit needs to be sped up drastically. (This one is a massive issue)

I'm not even done. lol He's fucking terrible. But he has a couple redeeming qualities:

The good
- d2 ticks into green thumb
- he has a decent corner game
- he hurts when he finally hits the opponent

Sick. That'll win him some majors!

Yeah not: I'll just roll my face on the pad with Black Adam or Superman til something is fixed. Why even try when characters in this game play it for you? Lol

Holy shit he's bad lmao

 

[Nexallus]

Well it's better that this thread came out rather than the usual "who are the broken characters" thread. I like this one better because he just wants a discussion. At least it's not a "lul nerf Deadshot plz NRS" thread (those ones are getting old fast).

I'm not really going to discuss the legacy characters due to the fact that they are mostly the same from the last game, so of course they are going to appear strong within the first month.


However, I don't think any character should have ANY crazy adjustments right now, ESPECIALLY Deadshot who is the first strong zoning character I've really seen in, well any fighting game (I'd rather have meter-building adjustments).

At first I thought he was super strong, but after labbing him I found that his midscreen damage kind of sucks without 2 bars of meter, or a background bounce (Joker's Playhouse stage would probably wreck Deadshot).


Supergirl strikes me more as a counterpicking character used for anti-zoning. The online delay may make this character seem stronger than she really is (I also don't see any use for her 212121 string).


Robin feels like the type of character that once he knocks you down, he won't want to let you get back up. His options for 'getting in' are very limited however. Still a fun character to play (RIP Nightwing though).


Poison Ivy feels like she has every tool that Gunslinger Erron Black has (Stance, Command grab, 21122, Caltrops, prepatch f13 without the Overhead though). It's very annoying to get Bark Skin when performing b2d2 though, I hate that so much.


Besides Legacy characters, I think those are the majority of characters that I labbed.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Black canary is NOT top 5 lol

And we can't make a tier list after ONE tournament. There's absolutely no way each match has been fleshed out yet.

I will say I'm impressed with how long this took lol. Usually this happens in a week or so

 

[Juggs]

There's probably a reason why the middle tier is so huge lol. Again, wheat do you think her strengths weaknesses are? Where would you put her?

I made this to start a conversation that is different from your typical "our character sucks" stuff within the character-specific forums. I'm curious as to everyone else's opinion--not just that they think I've voiced mine too soon. I admitted that at the very beginning of my post...

- Some of the lowest damage in the game (probably THE lowest)

- Incredibly hard to build meter. Only way to build meter is whiffing air throws full screen, unsafe pressure, trait zoning that HITS (doesn't build a thing om whiff), or getting your ass beat.

- Only safe string is 112 and it's barely safe at +1 (not +3 as it suggests) and has a gap in it. You essentially have to back off after 112 on block.

- B12 and B123 are full combo punishable by majority of the cast. Only way to make it safe is to use meter your probably don't have on ice breath.

- Even with meter she still does shit damage. Even in her corner combo float loop only gets her a little bit more damage than her full screen BnB.

- Really her only mixup is cross up guessing in the corner, or guessing left or right on HKD wakeup vs her F3.

There's probably more that I'm forgetting too. She's still usable but can't compete against the top tier and isn't tournament viable, imo.

 

[God Confirm]

Someone has spent far too long reading the Scarecrow forum

 

[SHAOLIN]

Reasoning behind Joker's placement?

@RNLDRGN