How to beat your main?

[Tony at Home]

Green Arrow: Interrupt D1 ~ arrow dammit

Do people not get why this isn't actually being done consistently?

The time you have between actually seeing him do the d1, and the startup of the arrow is very short and not reactable. Easily less than 15 frames for you to see what's going on and input a reversal.

Not sure if this is downplaying..or trying to get people to constantly go for d1 interrupts which will inevitably be bad on timing because human reaction time just does not work that fast... kinda like me saying "Hey guys, mash d1 against Lex when he has armor. TRUST ME IT WORKS"

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Do people not get why this isn't actually being done consistently?

The time you have between actually seeing him do the d1, and the startup of the arrow is very short and not reactable. Easily less than 15 frames for you to see what's going on and input a reversal.

Not sure if this is downplaying..or trying to get people to constantly go for d1 interrupts which will inevitably be bad on timing because human reaction time just does not work that fast... kinda like me saying "Hey guys, mash d1 against Lex when he has armor. TRUST ME IT WORKS"

And you can get blown up for it also.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

impossible
DS online is S tier
kappa

 

[DarkSlayerSmith]

Aquaman:Stay away from the trident, dont let him lube up and dont...
Nevemind!



IGAU batman- pick bane...break spine,Done!

MK9 Sonya-block pressure,block cartwhell,block armor cartwhell all three of them,block d4 cartwhell -repeat process.

Mk9 Skarlett- break @Eddy Wang's fingers,or call his mom,she's free!

MK9 Cirax- Ragequit!

TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT-you're good if the one one you're playing again its not japanese or Korean.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

Liu Kang :
B-L-O-C-K
L-O-W ! ! !

 

[Yinze]

Ares- People learn the d1 quick so try and bait out the trait, watch out for overhead mixups and be good on your throw tech

Sinestro- If you can't zone back don't try to, stay in his face

Shazam- Don't fall for predictable setups, mash d1 to interrupt and predict the wake up teleport

 

[Deleted member 28105]

Do people not get why this isn't actually being done consistently?

The time you have between actually seeing him do the d1, and the startup of the arrow is very short and not reactable. Easily less than 15 frames for you to see what's going on and input a reversal.

Not sure if this is downplaying..or trying to get people to constantly go for d1 interrupts which will inevitably be bad on timing because human reaction time just does not work that fast... kinda like me saying "Hey guys, mash d1 against Lex when he has armor. TRUST ME IT WORKS"

I could see how this could be a viable reason to not interrupt D1 arrow... The first time that you play a set with a GA. However, the slightest matchup experience renders this interruption less than difficult. In my personal experience, it will take a knowledgeable player 1-2 matches until they are consistently reacting.

 

[Indecisive]

Step 1: Make sure the console has alt costumes.
Step 2: If console has both costumes proceed to lose
Step 2a: If console does not have both costumes talk to opponent about button check so we know which character is which
Step 3: After figuring out which shazam is which proceed to lose.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Superman

1) the most important thing you can do (imo) is develop your post blocked breath game. Look into all of Supermans options, and find your counters. Do not just be satisfied with a counter to another F2. Superman has plenty of options to stop any meta 1 counters.

2) if your character has a punish for non MB air laser....find it, learn it, love it, convert it. Meter is Supermans lifeline. He builds it fast in most MUs, so forcing him to use it to stay safe on air lasers is critical.

3) develop your oki game. Rising grab is not a get out of jail free card. However we will abuse it until you teach us not to. Supermans wakeup game has all the options he needs, so make sure you have your characters options on lockdown so you can win some of the guessing games. Often, a knockdown into you guessing right on wakeup spells disaster for Superman because:

4) learn how to hold your life lead against Superman. Supes has this strange combination of bad comeback factor, and amazing comeback factor. It's bad because generally he opens you up by forcing you to a make a mistake. His 50/50 off throw vs f3 usually requires trait and meter so it's not always available. This means Superman can actually have problems opening you up to make his comeback if you are patient. However, he does life bars worth of damage in the corner, so there is still lots of potential if he does manage to open you up, which leads us to:

5) figure out your defensive options against SM in the corner. You're going to need them. Badly. Superman players have all spent their entire lives bullying people in the corner. They will know their options. You can't just have a day 1, meta 1 defense planned, or you'll get massacred. It's not easy, but figure out your characters most reliable ways to get out of the corner. You need them.

6) It's not as easy as "lol punish that" as everyone claims it is, but learn your punish for a divebomb. If you can manage to blow up one, you might actually make us Superman players hesitant to try again (probably not) but at least you got a combo instead of nothing.

7) Dont. Beat. Yourself. This is super (see what I did there?) important. This seems simple, but it's not. There are often setups players use that normally have a pretty high rate of opening someone up, so no one thinks twice. It's usually some fancy cross up setup. A corpse hop, a jump attack, a teleport, etc. I can not tell you how many times someone has tried one of these, I guess right and block it, and the opponent has cornered themselves. I then proceed to dismantle them in the corner because SMs corner game is so strong, and I didn't even have to work to get you there. Use caution. The risk reward is too high if Superman guesses right on your mix up. Save your fancy setups for midscreen, or for tech videos. If you do something to corner yourself against Superman, and he makes up a 75 percent life lead, that's not Supermans fault. You did the work for him.

I hope this helps everyone out in the SM matchup. He's a great character, very strong, but he's not actually bullet proof. There are ways around his madness. They may not be easy. But he isn't 10-0ing the cast. Oh, and if all else fails...

8) Pick Raven.

 

[Youphemism]

ALL-FUCKING-RIGHTY THEN.

Batgirl:

• USE THE CARTWHEEL OPTION SELECT AND/OR FOLLOWUP COUNTER, REFER TO THIS THREAD OF PL'S TECH AND THIS ONE REO MADE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
• DID YOU BLOCK A JI2? BAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKDDDDDDAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! REFER TO THIS OTHER PL THREAD. SEEING @HoneyBee DO THIS ONCE AT TFC GAVE ME AN EXPERIENCE I FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT TO RANDOM GUYS ONLINE.
• NOT AS IMPORTANT BUT DID YOU BLOCK A B2? BAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKDDDDDDDAAAAAASSSSSSSHHHHHH!!! YOU DON'T HAVE TO GUESS BETWEEN OVERHEAD (B2U3) AND LOW (B2D3) IF YOU DO THIS.
  • Of course if you're a character who can punish overhead anyway, like Batman, then just block and punish. REFER TO THIS THREAD AND THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER ELABORATION ON WHO CAN PUNISH BATGIRL'S OVERHEAD OPTION IF YOU MUST.
• SOME OF THE THINGS MENTIONED ABOVE THAT YOU CAN DO TO AVOID BATGIRL'S CRAP I PUT IN THIS THREAD A WHILE BACK ALONG WITH SOME OTHER STUFF, FEEL FREE TO READ IT KTHXBYE.
• DON'T JUMP AGAINST HER SO MUCH, THAT'S A FREE ANTI-AIR FLYING BAT/SMOKE BOMB/J2 INTO VORTEX.
• PUNISH A BLOCKED BAT EVADE 3, IT'S -15.
• NOT AS IMPORTANT SINCE IT'S RARELY DONE BUT INTERRUPT B2D3~REDEMPTION OR D1~REDEMPTION ON BLOCK. (B1~redemption is uninterruptable though)
• CHECK HER DASHES, IF YOU'RE LETTING HER DO A DASH IN INTO B1 YOU'RE PLAYING THE MATCHUP WRONG. OR IF YOU FOR SOME REASON CAN'T REACT TO A 26+ FRAME SEQUENCE YOU COULD BACKDASH IF YOU SEE HER DASH THEN WHIFF PUNISH OR SOMETHING.
• LAST ONE- LEARN TO STUFF WAKEUP CARTWHEEL, I'M PRETTY SURE MOST OF THE CAST IF NOT ALL OF THE CAST CAN DO IT.

Ok so that's all I can think of right now but UGH I hate when people don't play the matchup right.

Oh yeah

Wonder Woman:
I dunno, zone her out lol.
Jk backdash the gap in 33 if you don't want to deal with being -2,
Punish 23 on block!!!!! I rarely ever see this happening, it's -9. PU.NISH.IT.
Uhhh I can't think of much for her actually, usually the matchup gets played right or the WoWo player sucks

 

[Laos_boy]

Someone's passionate about batgirl

ALL-FUCKING-RIGHTY THEN.

Batgirl:

• USE THE CARTWHEEL OPTION SELECT AND/OR FOLLOWUP COUNTER, REFER TO THIS THREAD OF PL'S TECH AND THIS ONE REO MADE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
• DID YOU BLOCK A JI2? BAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKDDDDDDAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! REFER TO THIS OTHER PL THREAD. SEEING @HoneyBee DO THIS ONCE AT TFC GAVE ME AN EXPERIENCE I FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT TO RANDOM GUYS ONLINE.
• NOT AS IMPORTANT BUT DID YOU BLOCK A B2? BAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKDDDDDDDAAAAAASSSSSSSHHHHHH!!! YOU DON'T HAVE TO GUESS BETWEEN OVERHEAD (B2U3) AND LOW (B2D3) IF YOU DO THIS.
  • Of course if you're a character who can punish overhead anyway, like Batman, then just block and punish. REFER TO THIS THREAD AND THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER ELABORATION ON WHO CAN PUNISH BATGIRL'S OVERHEAD OPTION IF YOU MUST.
• SOME OF THE THINGS MENTIONED ABOVE THAT YOU CAN DO TO AVOID BATGIRL'S CRAP I PUT IN THIS THREAD A WHILE BACK ALONG WITH SOME OTHER STUFF, FEEL FREE TO READ IT KTHXBYE.
• DON'T JUMP AGAINST HER SO MUCH, THAT'S A FREE ANTI-AIR FLYING BAT/SMOKE BOMB/J2 INTO VORTEX.
• PUNISH A BLOCKED BAT EVADE 3, IT'S -15.
• NOT AS IMPORTANT SINCE IT'S RARELY DONE BUT INTERRUPT B2D3~REDEMPTION OR D1~REDEMPTION ON BLOCK. (B1~redemption is uninterruptable though)
• CHECK HER DASHES, IF YOU'RE LETTING HER DO A DASH IN INTO B1 YOU'RE PLAYING THE MATCHUP WRONG. OR IF YOU FOR SOME REASON CAN'T REACT TO A 26+ FRAME SEQUENCE YOU COULD BACKDASH IF YOU SEE HER DASH THEN WHIFF PUNISH OR SOMETHING.
• LAST ONE- LEARN TO STUFF WAKEUP CARTWHEEL, I'M PRETTY SURE MOST OF THE CAST IF NOT ALL OF THE CAST CAN DO IT.

Ok so that's all I can think of right now but UGH I hate when people don't play the matchup right.

Oh yeah

Wonder Woman:
I dunno, zone her out lol.
Jk backdash the gap in 33 if you don't want to deal with being -2,
Punish 23 on block!!!!! I rarely ever see this happening, it's -9. PU.NISH.IT.
Uhhh I can't think of much for her actually, usually the matchup gets played right or the WoWo player sucks

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Green Arrow:

1. As others have said, learn to interupt D1xxArrow. If you have at least a 7 frame d1 you can do it with practice even online, and if you have 6 frame d1 or better you can practically mash it out. I'm pretty sure every member of the cast can interrupt any d1 into overhead arrow attempt. It is crucial to establish to the arrow player that you can do this to prevent him from running all over you with it.
Once I respect an opponents ability to do this we will begin playing a mind game involving D1xxarrow and d1xxsavage blast or d1xxslide, because the later options will blow up your interrupt.
That being said, I do not get much damage from the later options so don't always avoid interrupting just because its there. Arrows damage is ass, so the risk reward is probably in your favor.

2. Almost never block low against arrow in the neutral game/on wakeup/after a jump in. We often let arrow get away with murder here. At texas showdown I watched ChrisG J2 B2 so many people in the corner I could do nothing but shake my head.
Here are Arrows low starters: D3, D4(aka DxxArrow), and slide. That's it. The only one of those that leads to any decent damage is D4 and its obviously super easy to block on reaction when you see the startup. About the only time it is worth blocking low against arrow is if you read a slide, and about the only time I will throw one out on a knocked down opponent is if I need to force them to respect it and stop blocking high. Again though, there's almost no damage there.

3. Learn how to fuzzy guard his mixups and understand his pressure. Green arrow just like in the comics is in many ways a poor mans Batman. His greatest strength is arguably his pressure and frame data, but much like Batman on paper its almost impossible to open someone up with him.
Online shenanigans will make this difficult sometimes but it is very possible to make opening you up incredibly frustrating. We've already covered d1xxarrow, so after that the next step is mixups off of F2. Ie: F2D13xxarrow, F2D1xxarrow. No interupting those with a poke. Both of those can be made to be low or overhead setups but again they're very fuzzyable and even reactable. Once you successfully reach this level I will need to start taking more risks with F2 or J2 Grab.
Also, always remember that the frames for blocking a low arrow don't put me as plus as blocking a high arrow.

4. Don't try to dodge fire/electrical arrows. Block them. Despite what many commentators would have you believe, switching to fire and electrical arrows to close out the round is not the arrow player looking for chip. Its him looking for the opponent to get desperate. Fire arrows do .8% and electrical arrows do even less on chip. Unless you are literally hanging on half a pixel of life....do not lose your patience. Those arrows are probably not going to chip you out. They will however catch you if you jump or dash in out of desperation. Be patient, walk forward, wait for me to take my shot, block it...and keep coming. Remember, I only get 2/3 of them before I have to take a risk reloading and by the time I'm done you can get right in my face and turn the tide.

5. Backdash super resets. I know this is asking a lot and I don't pretend to be able to do it consistently....but it might save your life some day and this has ended at least one green arrows progression in tournament. Even if you don't think you can do it consistently at least freaking try, which is something I see so few players even bother with. Worst case scenario is you fail and you probably lose the round. Best case scenario is it works and I now have no meter and you've suddenly got a chance. Just do it and roll the dice!

6. Learn how to blowup his wakeups. Green Arrows wakeup game is very strong because he can either move forward or backward and create some distance between himself and the other player...but both of them can be punished if properly read. Some characters at the right distance (right next to him on knockdown) can mb b3 and blowup both options. If you're not one of those characters you will have to make a read and punish accordingly. Most characters can J3 punish savage blast and slide....you'll just have to make a guess on which one I use (hint: if I'm in the corner I'm probably trying to get out), and MB b3 for all characters will blow up the slide as far as I know.

 

[InFlames]

Ares - learn his frame data

gg you will never lose again

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

ALL-FUCKING-RIGHTY THEN.

Batgirl:

• USE THE CARTWHEEL OPTION SELECT AND/OR FOLLOWUP COUNTER, REFER TO THIS THREAD OF PL'S TECH AND THIS ONE REO MADE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
• DID YOU BLOCK A JI2? BAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKDDDDDDAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! REFER TO THIS OTHER PL THREAD. SEEING @HoneyBee DO THIS ONCE AT TFC GAVE ME AN EXPERIENCE I FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT TO RANDOM GUYS ONLINE.
• NOT AS IMPORTANT BUT DID YOU BLOCK A B2? BAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKDDDDDDDAAAAAASSSSSSSHHHHHH!!! YOU DON'T HAVE TO GUESS BETWEEN OVERHEAD (B2U3) AND LOW (B2D3) IF YOU DO THIS.
  • Of course if you're a character who can punish overhead anyway, like Batman, then just block and punish. REFER TO THIS THREAD AND THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER ELABORATION ON WHO CAN PUNISH BATGIRL'S OVERHEAD OPTION IF YOU MUST.
• SOME OF THE THINGS MENTIONED ABOVE THAT YOU CAN DO TO AVOID BATGIRL'S CRAP I PUT IN THIS THREAD A WHILE BACK ALONG WITH SOME OTHER STUFF, FEEL FREE TO READ IT KTHXBYE.
• DON'T JUMP AGAINST HER SO MUCH, THAT'S A FREE ANTI-AIR FLYING BAT/SMOKE BOMB/J2 INTO VORTEX.
• PUNISH A BLOCKED BAT EVADE 3, IT'S -15.
• NOT AS IMPORTANT SINCE IT'S RARELY DONE BUT INTERRUPT B2D3~REDEMPTION OR D1~REDEMPTION ON BLOCK. (B1~redemption is uninterruptable though)
• CHECK HER DASHES, IF YOU'RE LETTING HER DO A DASH IN INTO B1 YOU'RE PLAYING THE MATCHUP WRONG. OR IF YOU FOR SOME REASON CAN'T REACT TO A 26+ FRAME SEQUENCE YOU COULD BACKDASH IF YOU SEE HER DASH THEN WHIFF PUNISH OR SOMETHING.
• LAST ONE- LEARN TO STUFF WAKEUP CARTWHEEL, I'M PRETTY SURE MOST OF THE CAST IF NOT ALL OF THE CAST CAN DO IT.

Ok so that's all I can think of right now but UGH I hate when people don't play the matchup right.

Oh yeah

Wonder Woman:
I dunno, zone her out lol.
Jk backdash the gap in 33 if you don't want to deal with being -2,
Punish 23 on block!!!!! I rarely ever see this happening, it's -9. PU.NISH.IT.
Uhhh I can't think of much for her actually, usually the matchup gets played right or the WoWo player sucks

KHROOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[imblackjames]

Lex: Be zod

 

[Soul Bound X]

Cage: Use Kenshi

Kenshi: LOL

Kenshi: Get good with Kung Lao.

 

[fr stack]

grundy- jump back 3
am i doing it right?

 

[Kyu]

Bane: Space extremely well, punish his dash ins. It may be a quick and long dash but you can punish it. Backdash after d1 d2 b2 b11 and any other tick. If your back dash sucks I'm not sorry. Get used to holding out a mbb3 after d2 it can blowup a charge too if you hold it long. Never find yourself in a corner. Pushblocking Bane when he has armor is kind of stupid so don't waste your meter on that. Opening him up on debuff is hard but sometimes if you're a zoner you can chip more damage then you'd have done otherwise. He's a damned good character who can fight almost anybody (except zatanna or flash)



Also best way to win is have a teleport wakeup

 

[PunkMafia83]

Green arrow. Its already been said interrupt d1 ice.

Been patient. Make him burn meter. You don't want that super.....

If you walk him to the corner he cant savage blast.

 

[JDM]

Lantern: Zone him out
Lex: Zone him out, dont let him get you in the corner for god sakes dont let him get you into the corner.
Superman: out footsie him. his f2 is kinda booty now compared to pre patch so people respect it far too much still.
Aquaman: No clue. Too hard to fight, has answers for everything. Always try to pick a character who can launch in one/2 hits so he can't trait, react to his slow overheads, block low, pushblock his MB trident rush right after it's activated, don't jump at him, dont try to do something after wakeups consistently because of just frame FTD. Overall a really dumb character that's hard to fight. Gotta counterpick.

 

[JDM]

But I thought general consensus was that NW did ok against the top 3. Only really struggling against Sinestro and superman...

Naw, he really doesn't.

Do people not get why this isn't actually being done consistently?

The time you have between actually seeing him do the d1, and the startup of the arrow is very short and not reactable. Easily less than 15 frames for you to see what's going on and input a reversal.

Not sure if this is downplaying..or trying to get people to constantly go for d1 interrupts which will inevitably be bad on timing because human reaction time just does not work that fast... kinda like me saying "Hey guys, mash d1 against Lex when he has armor. TRUST ME IT WORKS"

Um, whenever anyone does a D1 on block, you can D1 on reaction no matter who you are (expect maybe against NW?) A lot of Green Arrows like to do D1, D1 into ice arrow as if it's a real mixup. It's not, you can always poke him after D1 on block and blow him up with D1xxSpecial into full combo.

You're reacting to the D1, not necessarily the Ice Arrow proc, cause it doesn't really matter what he's doing after D1 cause you'll always beat him out.

 

[Ecodus]

Cat Woman

Learn how to punish Whiffed B3s. She's low to the ground when she whiffs, a lot of mids will miss her. Go into the lab and figure out what works for your character. In a lot of cases d1~special will do the trick.

Learn how to deal with j2. You can backdash the F/u on block, MB B3 it, dash under. And unless CW is close with the j2 her options are f1 (most common) or low whip (super unsafe).

Figure out what you can do to low whip. Blocked It's -33 and some of the cast can even dash in punish.

Understand the f1 stagger string guessing game. F1~d1 frame trap, you can poke out of all other options. F1 (+2 on block) and b1 are 16 frames and 14 frames respectively (I think)

Knock her down and oki her. Everything can be stuffed save Trait, trait can be MB'ed or neutral jumped.

Some characters can walk back out of stagger strings. Walk backwards and make CW do risky dash ins. Punish those.

Learn how to zone her, mix up your zoning and bait MB Cat Dashes.

Mb B3 full screen cat dashes that are meant to get in on you.

Learn the post blocked catclaws game. Against most characters it is safe, but leaves her -. Some characters can punish catclaws (Flash, BG, MMH with trait).

Abuse her weak AA game.