Question How Can You Consider Flash Top 5?

[AK Harold]

The phrase "top 5" has become more synonymous with a figurative meaning more so than its literal meaning when it comes to IGAU, describing cast members that have the tools to be considered within the top 5. The cast members that are generally considered for this are:

Black Adam
Superman
Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Martian Man Hunter
Batman
Zod
Green Lantern
Batgirl
Flash
Doomsday
Killer Frost
.[/quote]

Forgot to respond to the OP, Flash goes even with that list. So if he is not top 5 that does not really matter, it really has become a stupid phrase in this game community. But if you were to use that terminology, then Flash is a Top 5 Slayer. Remember tiers shift with performance, so yes Flash deserves to be on the bottom half of the spectrum for now. I really feel like I have a good chance to showcase his strengths, but I will not be able to goto TFC and have not been wanting to play as much because of that.

 

[SaJa]

you are a pretty big downplayer aren't you? flash has THE best corner game, WW very close second.

I don't think so. Flash doesn't have real OTG + 50/50. Superman has 70% combo in corner.

 

[Zyphox]

I don't think so. Flash doesn't have real OTG + 50/50. Superman has 70% combo in corner.

so? the flash has 12 different vortex's in the corner, +frametraps, into 50/50's.

 

[TheSpore]

This whole argument ahs become My flash is better than you Flash wow that sounds almost perverted

 

[SaJa]

so? the flash has 12 different vortex's in the corner, +frametraps, into 50/50's.

And does between 30% and 40% unless you have interact.

 

[Zyphox]

And does between 30% and 40% unless you have interact.

into a vortex situation, one of the best vortex's in the game, some characters have no answer for it, like cyborg and sinestro, aquaman, raven.

 

[SaJa]

into a vortex situation, one of the best vortex's in the game, some characters have no answer for it, like cyborg and sinestro, aquaman, raven.

You made a vote about who has the best corner of the game ? Flash didn't win WW and superman if I remember correctly. So you have your opinion, I have mine, and the kommunity has his which is closer from mine.

Flash doesn't have OTG and f23 range. Everyone can wakeup against your vortex. No one can against OTG.

f3 armored and sonic pound can be parried by batman, zod etc..

 

[i4ni_Reaver]

Buff Flash. He needs it.

yep totally >.>

 

[KDZ]

SaJa, try not to be too proud that your opinion runs in line with the community's.

That's not the best sign.

 

[Zyphox]

You made a vote about who has the best corner of the game ? Flash didn't win WW and superman if I remember correctly. So you have your opinion, I have mine, and the kommunity has his which is closer from mine.

Flash doesn't have OTG and f23 range. Everyone can wakeup against your vortex. No one can against OTG.

f3 armored and sonic pound can be parried by batman, zod etc..

yeah but you don't have to do a f3 and you have to guess which way to wake up against the flash, and characters with option select wake ups you can bait and punish them or armored f3. parries, just bait them or d1 them. maybe you just aren't good at keeping people in the corner but if you make the right read as a flash player its usually really hard to get out of the corner. only clash and push block saves people when i play them.

 

[SaJa]

yeah but you don't have to do a f3 and you have to guess which way to wake up against the flash, and characters with option select wake ups you can bait and punish them or armored f3. parries, just bait them or d1 them. maybe you just aren't good at keeping people in the corner but if you make the right read as a flash player its usually really hard to get out of the corner. only clash and push block saves people when i play them.

Dude, I didn't say Flash's corner is crap. Right ? I just said WW and Superman have a better one. Parry can be done on reaction, so no bait stuffs here.
I've seen foreverking/reo blocking your crossup in corner.

How can you possibly say something is better than OTG 50/50 with 40% meterless or 70% 1 meter + trait when in another hand Flash will fuck up his meter to get +30% resets.

anyway..

 

[187x]

At the same time yes and at the same time no.

 

[Zyphox]

Dude, I didn't say Flash's corner is crap. Right ? I just said WW and Superman have a better one. Parry can be done on reaction, so no bait stuffs here.
I've seen foreverking/reo blocking your crossup in corner.

How can you possibly say something is better than OTG 50/50 with 40% meterless or 70% 1 meter + trait when in another hand Flash will fuck up his meter to get +30% resets.

anyway..

yeah and when they block my cross up i get a 50/50......... WW's OTG can be blocked as well, then you can push block, or block another time just like the flash's. superman has damage, but no real mix up. anyway its your opinion so what ever.

 

[LEGEND]

In all honesty, Flash is good very good. From a MU perspective he has very few bad match ups that I have played against. I do feel like my scene is relatively strong, no they are not the best at every character etc. The least experience I have is Aquaman, but when I did it did not feel bad after the last patch. My harder matchups? WW, BA, Grundy. I think NW is tough but I do not have a lot of NW players here.

having played the NW and Grundy MU alot. I would definitely consider NW either 5-5 or in Flash's favor and Grundy definitely in Flash's Favor.
-
On topic,

The only MUs that i consider bad for Flash are:
BA
Hawkgirl
WW
GL (slightly. possibly even)
Superman
and Maybe Martian

But, Considering he has 4 MUs that are definitely not in his favor. He can not be top 5 when you have characters like Supes, Aquaman, Black Adam, Batman, Killer Frost, WW, Zod ect all who have either no bad mus or only a couple 4-6s (except for Batman who probably loses 3-7 to Aquaman)

 

[KIllaByte]

People have had Batman in their top 5s seemingly since day one, and really only credited his placement there to "BAT TRAIT BLOWS UP ZONING, J2 LOL, SCRUB".

Batman is incredibly reliant on his trait, for both mixups, and the breaking through of long distance zoning.
The Flash does this with his dash and special moves.

What Batman has when that trait is gone, is a bad wakeup game, bad anti-air, and non-existent OTG pressure, yes?
Flash has all of those things that Batman lacks.

Batman's J2 is GDLK, though, and his meter reliant combo damage is also nice.
Batman also gets blown up pretty hard by interactables- (excluding the pig) and I rarely see Batman players use his interactable OTGS..
Flash can dodge all of them, free, and get far higher damage for 1 bar, midscreen, which usually immediately takes the opponent to the corner, where Flash's OTG reset hell begins.

Call me an idiot if you have to, but someone please explain why Batman is still considered top 5, over The Flash.
Please.

 

[SEV]

having played the NW and Grundy MU alot. I would definitely consider NW either 5-5 or in Flash's favor and Grundy definitely in Flash's Favor.

NW 5-5 and I personally like the Grundy MU too as Flash but for some reason people say it's in Grundy's favor.

 

[SEV]

Call me an idiot if you have to, but someone please explain why Batman is still considered top 5, over The Flash. Please.

Batman can zone, Batman can pressure, he has mix ups, he has resets...; essentially he can do everything. Batman probably has the best trait in the game. He has legitimate block strings where as one proper block against Flash and the pressure can end. Both can avoid interactibles fairly easy so I don't think this really matters. Batman has far less unfavored match ups, and only one unfavored against the top tier while Flash has five against the top tier. Flash has a better forward dash sure, but not by much, while Batman has a way better back dash than Flash's. Batman's zoning is 2 batarangs so it can even break armor, while Flash can't zone at all. The only thing Flash has that Batman doesn't is a solid 50/50, but B23 is still amazing as an overhead option and gives you space. Batman gets to play his game in the greater majority of his match ups. Batman's pressure is better than Flash's too, but only outside of the corner; and even in the corner Batman's pressure isn't bad compared to Flash's, just not as good. Batman is the most versatile character in the game so as the meta game develops as the game gets older, Batman will be able to adapt more readily and may even prove to be better than Superman and Black Adam at their current states before they get nerfed by the next patch. That is why Batman is better than Flash.

 

[Monster Blood]

Call me an idiot, Please.

You're an idiot

 

[KDZ]

SEV, you are restoring my faith in humanity.

 

[Duck Nation]

Batman can zone, Batman can pressure, he has mix ups, he has resets...; essentially he can do everything. Batman probably has the best trait in the game. He has legitimate block strings where as one proper block against Flash and the pressure can end. Both can avoid interactibles fairly easy so I don't think this really matters. Batman has far less unfavored match ups, and only one unfavored against the top tier while Flash has five against the top tier. Flash has a better forward dash sure, but not by much, while Batman has a way better back dash than Flash's. Batman's zoning is 2 batarangs so it can even break armor, while Flash can't zone at all. The only thing Flash has that Batman doesn't is a solid 50/50, but B23 is still amazing as an overhead option and gives you space. Batman gets to play his game in the greater majority of his match ups. Batman's pressure is better than Flash's too, but only outside of the corner; and even in the corner Batman's pressure isn't bad compared to Flash's, just not as good. Batman is the most versatile character in the game so as the meta game develops as the game gets older, Batman will be able to adapt more readily and may even prove to be better than Superman and Black Adam at their current states before they get nerfed by the next patch. That is why Batman is better than Flash.

Addendum: Batman isn't currently dominating because Aquaman completely crushes him. Eliminate having to deal with that one nearly unwinnable match from Batman and he'd be more common and probably dominating as hard as BA and Supes do.

 

[SEV]

Addendum: Batman isn't currently dominating because Aquaman completely crushes him. Eliminate having to deal with that one nearly unwinnable match from Batman and he'd be more common and probably dominating as hard as BA and Supes do.

I think it also has to do with the current state of the meta game. Because Batman is so versatile it will probably take Batman players the longest to figure out how to deal with every match up properly, that's why I still think he's currently top 5, but not top 3; in due time though.

 

[KDZ]

Addendum: Batman isn't currently dominating because Aquaman completely crushes him. Eliminate having to deal with that one nearly unwinnable match from Batman and he'd be more common and probably dominating as hard as BA and Supes do.

Nearly unwinnable?

The best Batmen (Forever King, Darth Arma, etc) have been beating the best Aquamen (Brady, Insayne, Riyo) at all recent tournaments and majors.

How can you even say that?

 

[maximusroman]

Nearly unwinnable?

The best Batmen (Forever King, Darth Arma, etc) have been beating the best Aquamen (Brady, Insayne, Riyo) at all recent tournaments and majors.

How can you even say that?

show one video of tom brady aquaman losing to any batman player at a major. you wont cause it doesnt exist

 

[Monster Blood]

show one video of tom brady aquaman losing to any batman player at a major. you wont cause it doesnt exist

did you even look for one?? cuz it took me like 5 seconds

 

[Duck Nation]

How can you even say that?

Ask me on the chat if you really want to know.