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Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

kaseyk

Noob
against ds sword flip is full combo punish with anything on block , i use 123-b3-ji2-3xx-mcmb and stay in his face with d1-we3 crossthrough d1-4-2-mcmc we win up close . just have to block guns smart and not fly around to much . from full screen you can start to fly in to bait a ds jump shot as soon as he does dive kick and move in .

raven in rego stance u own the air use it , and her only safe string 22-3 (advantage raven on block ) after 22 u mbb3-ji2-3xx-mc punish evertime she does it practice in labs once theyre smart to that they may start back dashing after the 22 and punish . up close all her special are punishable by d1 combo and d3 is great in the mu .
raven demon stance do not fly and jump in mtmb must be done quick and is a risk . her pillars are actually very easy to wing evade through i recommend practicing it in labs . if she teleports high free d2-ji2-4-2-mc if she teleports low f13-mc beats anything she does hg crushes her teleport and ruins her zoning .
 

Espio

That's My Jam, That's My Wave.
Lead Moderator
I'm really struggling in the Raven MU. Any suggestions
What's the specific problem(s)?

When trait is up be patient and be careful with your movements. Raven is very vulnerable to oki and pressure so pummel her with it when you get the chance and don't give her room to get started because once Raven gets in her zoning rhythm against a good Raven you'll be hard pressed to break that rhythm.

You can wing evade out of 2,2,(3) there where green is shown. Her anti-air options are kind of meh so you can potentially exploit that plus her backdash isn't great so that helps. Raven has an edge, but it's doable.
 
against ds sword flip is full combo punish with anything on block , i use 123-b3-ji2-3xx-mcmb and stay in his face with d1-we3 crossthrough d1-4-2-mcmc we win up close . just have to block guns smart and not fly around to much . from full screen you can start to fly in to bait a ds jump shot as soon as he does dive kick and move in .
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I wouldn't say punish with anything on block. In the ones I listed you are too far out of range to punish with 1,2,3 for example. It depends how close and how much of the Sword Flip connects.
 

kaseyk

Noob
I wouldn't say punish with anything on block. In the ones I listed you are too far out of range to punish with 1,2,3 for example. It depends how close and how much of the Sword Flip connects.
take ds to labs and set him to sword flip your free to do any combo on block . except when your in corner he pushes a bit far away . i do 123 off sf evertime , d1 is ultra easy aswell . just practice it . ds vs hg imo is is highly exagerated in difficulty .

sword spin is weak against hg also , combo punish on rego and oh or low mb .
rego sp theres a tiny window just after for f1-combo but i normally just d1 poke into pressure , oh mb f1-combo timings pretty easy , low mb 123 ,f1 ,d1 combos all work .
how to read the sp mb for blocking block low (you can see the overhead mb pretty clear and it's not that fast) and if you see sword rise from behind him stand block punish f1 . if he does low mb free combo don't forget to say thanks in mic :p .
again lab these till the timing is comfy .
 
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TurboTaco

Mexican street vendor
Really struggling with the Batgirl matchup as of late, I just find it impossible to get in on her and then when I do shes seems to just get out so easily. Anyone got any tips?
 

kaseyk

Noob
Really struggling with the Batgirl matchup as of late, I just find it impossible to get in on her and then when I do shes seems to just get out so easily. Anyone got any tips?
back jump mc beats smokebomb and smokebomb on block is full combo . bg is extremely susceptable to we3 cross through . d1 beats everything she has up close . you can punish bola with jumping mtmb pretty easily , and from around jump distance you can we3 over her projectiles and combo ( except the mb up one of course ) . don't fly in this mu , but if u are in air and see smokebomb mc to avoid (timed right it will hit her ) . it's important to learn to recognize her high/lows so you can block them reliably .
 
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cashthesehands

monster masher
Premium Supporter
Is it possible to we(3) out of mmh's downward tele? I've gotten an uppercut to work, but not consistently. Walking toward him, f1->3, whatever works. Just wondering if I'm missing something else that would help even this one out.
 

Espio

That's My Jam, That's My Wave.
Lead Moderator
Is it possible to we(3) out of mmh's downward tele? I've gotten an uppercut to work, but not consistently. Walking toward him, f1->3, whatever works. Just wondering if I'm missing something else that would help even this one out.
I'm gonna make a video on tons of counter Martian Manhunter tech for her very soon and how essential wing evade in general is for this match up. I lab monster both of my mains hard so I keep finding cool little nuances. I'll probably have it up by the middle of the week, I wanna see if I can find additional stuff first plus Finals and such.

I have a bunch of cool stuff from shutting down orb pressure to maximizing overhead and ground teleport punishes instead of just getting forward 1,3 mace charge we can actually be getting full combo damage for one bar.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Premium Supporter
I'm gonna make a video on tons of counter Martian Manhunter tech for her very soon and how essential wing evade in general is for this match up. I lab monster both of my mains hard so I keep finding cool little nuances. I'll probably have it up by the middle of the week, I wanna see if I can find additional stuff first plus Finals and such.

I have a bunch of cool stuff from shutting down orb pressure to maximizing overhead and ground teleport punishes instead of just getting forward 1,3 mace charge we can actually be getting full combo damage for one bar.
How hard is it to wing evade teleport on reaction in your opinion? The move's invulnerability is nifty and is easy for me to time vs stage hazard attempts but MMH and certain moves on reaction are sorta knowing the player and reading for me. Should I be trying to learn this vs MMH or is it to inconsistent to hope for on reaction?
 

Espio

That's My Jam, That's My Wave.
Lead Moderator
How hard is it to wing evade teleport on reaction in your opinion? The move's invulnerability is nifty and is easy for me to time vs stage hazard attempts but MMH and certain moves on reaction are sorta knowing the player and reading for me. Should I be trying to learn this vs MMH or is it to inconsistent to hope for on reaction?
I think with a good amount of practice it's very possible to do consistently. I've only been tinkering with it for about five minutes and am punishing both versions with wing evade 2 for 30% ish. You also have the viable option of MB back 3 if you're worried about the timings. The aim is to just give as many options for dealing with it as possible and then let the player go for their punishment preference. You can get roughly the same from either option for one bar (33-36%).

A lot of things come down to reads but you have to take risks in order to win and be successful so it's important to get in your opponent's head and bait them into committing to these attacks and if you can punish consistently you'll deter them from using these tools as much and then you can start playing your game.
 

TurboTaco

Mexican street vendor
What do you think of the Flash match up? I used to think it was in Hawkgirls favour but now I think its even. Played some sets against Zyphox and another good flash player, I really struggled if he got me in the corner.
 

Espio

That's My Jam, That's My Wave.
Lead Moderator
What do you think of the Flash match up? I used to think it was in Hawkgirls favour but now I think its even. Played some sets against Zyphox and another good flash player, I really struggled if he got me in the corner.
I think Zyphox, Honeybee and I are some of the only people who think it's 5-5 lol. It seems like most Flash and Hawkgirl players think she wins however I'm gonna do a brief synopsis of my thoughts:

1. Damage/come back factor while both character have this, Flash's huge damage into more mix ups and vastly more damage that Shayera wins out for him easily.

2. Several of her mids will sometimes randomly whiff on Flash's small hitbox, which weakens her mix up game.

3. Superior mix ups that lead to far more damage and can lead to mix ups on block or hit (she has this too but again not to the level of Flash).

4. Counterzoning options like phase to deal with interactables and Hawkgirl's zoning.

5. I'd also say his footsies are equal or better since he gets more for his correct reads and his strings have solid reach.


Some pros for Hawkgirl:

1. Her down 1 and down 2 can really put Flash's advances in check and make him hesitant to approach from the ground or air.
2. Hawkgirl can set the pace of the match up even without a lifelead and she can chip away at him well and safely for the most part.
3. She seems to have a hitbox well suited to interrupting quite a few of his string gaps for full combo punishes.
4. Her mobility allows her to avoid a lot of corner pressure and shenanigans because she has multiple safe on block escape options.
5. Flash seems vulnerable to her corner oki despite his super fast wake ups.



They has far too many answer to each other for it to not be even to me anyway. This does not in any way shape or form feel like our other slight advantage match ups.
 

TurboTaco

Mexican street vendor
You can't really throw air maces I found either, if you throw out an air mace and he dashes it and then does the uppercut he can combo you for like 50%.
 

cashthesehands

monster masher
Premium Supporter
I think with a good amount of practice it's very possible to do consistently. I've only been tinkering with it for about five minutes and am punishing both versions with wing evade 2 for 30% ish. You also have the viable option of MB back 3 if you're worried about the timings. The aim is to just give as many options for dealing with it as possible and then let the player go for their punishment preference. You can get roughly the same from either option for one bar (33-36%).

A lot of things come down to reads but you have to take risks in order to win and be successful so it's important to get in your opponent's head and bait them into committing to these attacks and if you can punish consistently you'll deter them from using these tools as much and then you can start playing your game.
Spent some time int he lab last night, and have the we2 timing down against OH teleport. However, can't get the 2 to hit unless he's in the corner, after hit he bounces back. I'm timing the we for the last possible second before he hits; any pointers? for now sticking with the f1-3 punish
 

Espio

That's My Jam, That's My Wave.
Lead Moderator
Spent some time int he lab last night, and have the we2 timing down against OH teleport. However, can't get the 2 to hit unless he's in the corner, after hit he bounces back. I'm timing the we for the last possible second before he hits; any pointers? for now sticking with the f1-3 punish
It hits fine for me midscreen and I can go into 3,2, MB mace charge or 1,2,3, 3, MB mace charge to punish. I don't have it 100% down yet but from the sound of things you're wing evading too far back if the wing evade 2 isn't hitting midscreen.
 

XxSYNDROISxX

"Challenging Goro eh?"
Haven't been haven't been on this site for a while can anyone give me some pointers on the hawkgirl and Martian Manhunter match up
 

kaseyk

Noob
from my limited xp in mmh mu being patient getting in when hes zoning helps, after blocked oh tp we3 into his mbb3 and then block . learning to recognize his trait is active is important . i need much more xp in this mu though .

@Espio is our best source of anti-mmh tech for hg .
 

Espio

That's My Jam, That's My Wave.
Lead Moderator
Haven't been haven't been on this site for a while can anyone give me some pointers on the hawkgirl and Martian Manhunter match up
Work on your spacing and footsie game alongside precise patience, it's absolutely essential for this match up. Learn the timings on wing evade to make orbs, meterors and such get negated, that'll reduce chip damage you take while getting in.

You can wing evade out of down 1 push and down 1 martian grab.

Use wing evade 2 on 2,2, MB orb pressure and Back 2,3,3,3 MB orb to reverse pressure and get to being at plus four, while making Martian waste a bar of meter.

You can wing evade out of 1,1,2 string and full combo punish.

2,2, back 3 can be interrupted with forward 1,1, down 1 or MB back 3/forward 3.

If you get the timing down you can punish Martian grab with forward 1,1, trait, 2, MB mace charge for 32%.

I may add onto this, if you have more specific questions please feel free to ask me :).