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Match-up Discussion Harley Quinn Matchup Discussion

x MAD AXES x

x MAD AXES x

Lighten up will ya!
Ok then Harley vs everyone except 1 or 2 chars is 4-6 or worse and bane's trait gives him extra damage= top tier by what you're saying.
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
Jermball said:
I agree and actually know this.. but let me try to explain my situation of zoning and why I still feel Harley Quinn loses overall to his zoning, and that you have to work 4x harder than him.

So when i first started I was actually doing this and still do this. However if he spams at a height where gunshot is hard to hit, so if you have to block and respond with gunshot it doesn't work, but as I type this now i'm wondering if i jump over laser as it goes up, then try to gunshot or cupcake would it work. the problem i have with fullscreen laser is when they change their pattern. jump back laser, jump dash back laser, jump late back dash laser, jump whiff normal into laser, you get the idea...theres a ton of ways to switch your pattern up as superman...and if they MB air laser...forget it...the pushback makes you have to work all over again to get in. F2+3 is a nightmare to deal with, but again D1 will work but will more likely trade, i'm not sure if superman can confirm off that... but i know harley can full punish 30-35% with D1 start
Click to expand...
You have to build your patience then. I almost never have a problem with supes zoning. You can avoid the full screen pressure by jumping with him and doing your in air shot to delay your landing... Then you can dash once and do it again. You close the gap, take no damage, and build meter. Nothing should be easy for Harley, but all of that work pays off!
 
x MAD AXES x

x MAD AXES x

Lighten up will ya!
Ramon said:
You have to build your patience then. I almost never have a problem with supes zoning. You can avoid the full screen pressure by jumping with him and doing your in air shot to delay your landing... Then you can dash once and do it again. You close the gap, take no damage, and build meter. Nothing should be easy for Harley, but all of that work pays off!
Click to expand...
This, it's still is slightly in his favor though, but isn't an uphill battle like sinestro and aquaman, always great when you finally get a juggle on him then he uses his trait and blocks the 1 out of TS and punishes you for 40+%
 
D

DiZzyPhyZiks

Mortal
Mood4food77 said:
so...how is this in harley's advantage when we add trait stuff into this?

and lantern's might isn't a mix-up, it's a giant fuck you to harley, if in range, her only option is to block and hope she's close enough to punish
Click to expand...
If in range of lanterns might you can jump guns. If he starts trying to block jump guns for the LM punish then that makes him open to ji2.

Make him come to you and try to turn your block into your advantage
Honestly when i play good GLs they HARDLY throw raw LM. The metagame is so much deeper than "is he gonna LM right now?"
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
OH! you meant Aquaman. i'm talking about Superman. i dont think Aquaman is a hard matchup. all you have to do is be aware of his trait. start your combos with 2d3 so he has to trait earlier and on block you are 0. with a solid mixup you should be ok! Also in that matchup start your combos with 112 SS and keep the pressure.
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
x MAD AXES x said:
talking about b22 TS~1 or anything that can be cancelled into TS for a juggle, as soon as he gets hit by b22 or anything else he can hit his trait and block TS~1.
Click to expand...
Whether or not this is the best use of meter is debatable, but if you can predict he's going to do that, wouldn't b22 bb/ff+MB work well at catching him out?
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Harley vs SHAZAM!

SHAZAM! is as awkward as he is confusing... A boy in the body of a superhero..*shrug* Billy boy isn't that bad though if you treat him properly.. And that should be first and foremost AS A GRAPPLER (who just happens to be able to throw lightening bolts..... And teleport....... And has a body torpedo...) but I digress.. TREAT HIM AS A GRAPPLER.... With my studying and experience I will show when SHAZAM puts me through the ground, and when I make Billy boy go running to his mommy..

SHAZAM! Wants to be close.. Sweep distance is his breadbox.. He will poke you low, and jump over you for a cross up and begin to slowly and painfully mess you up... If he is jumping at you it is very rarely to hit you from the front, he is hoping for a block or a cross up hit, either of these are a victory to him since he is either pummeling you or close to restart his assault. Not to mention once he is in your mind and close.. He likes to frame trap you into his command throw.. Did you know he can follow that up for additional damage as well? He can and it hurts! When I lose to SHAZAM! it is for a few different reasons:
1) I think- yeah sure.. I can toe to toe with this guy.. Watch.. GG Harley
2) I get bored of proper zoning, and let him in.. I think- yeah sure.. I can defend this guy and get back to zoning range...watch.. GG Harley
3) He has above average defense and I cannot shake him, he keeps me in his frame trap throw range and all attempts to get him off fail, all attempts to launch an offense fail.. The good news about this SHAZAM! Is that it usually ends fast, bad news is: Harley is the one on the ground...GG Harley

Optimally you want to be full screen from Billy boy. His regular lightning bolts are duckable (BLOCK or jump guns his MB bolts). Walk those gun shots in on him.. If he tries to get a bolt in- he gets hit, if he tries to teleport- he gets hit, so he will resort to ducking to avoid gunshots- an that's when you let go of CUPCAKES! Use a Pop Pop or three (some backdash canceled) to regain some space and repeat. This is going to make Billy want to get close to you and give you a lightning charged hug.. Don't let him!!

-SHAZAM! Teleport: he can be shot at the start of teleport and as he ends it (while in motion he goes through projectile). He can and will use it repeatedly to get in on you (if you allow it) and once the animation starts, he can pass through you too! Watch for the cross up teleport attempts (see counter below in Torpedo section)

-SHAZAM! Lightning Bolt- normal type is pain free and duckable, MB version cannot be ducked, just blocked or jumped (use jumping guns for added height). Watch his meter and trait from full screen, if he activates his trait full screen w/ meter he is going to start throwing MB Bolts or will start his charge at you!

-SHAZAM! Torpedo: DO NOT CROUCH!! It's very hard not to (I know) but resist, crouching will take you for a ride.. Block it high and he goes through you.. Many Billy's will only do this at range to know they will go through you and be in their power zone (sweep distance) they may be defensive and down block or aggressive and come in for command grab, or low kick into jump crossover.. In this state I suggest a NJ2 to try and catch him sleeping OR attacking from crouch and punish accordingly.. A proper read or block means command throw or elbow into jumping elbow is coming.. Backdash and high block and look for a B1,2xx FU counter on command throw or a second block for jumping elbow follow up. This is a good time to re-establish space and continue your zoning. Also note, a jumping back 1 (aim for the head of the torpedo) it WILL beat him, if your timing is right, you can knock him out of it.. *Note: your foot touches any other part of the torpedo it is going to send you for a ride.

Many SHAZAM'S! Suffer from the IGAU grappler syndrome and that is they love the crouch in neutral game...dashes in, duck, wake up, duck.. Exploit this with jumping guns(MB jumping guns), cupcakes (MB cupcakes) and properly spaced F3 to follow up..once he is expecting this, it keeps him open outside sweep to SSxxTS (watch your spacing).

If you treat Shazam! Like a better looking and better dressed Grundy you will have better success... Understand his reasons and distances for staying in crouch position (specially against Harley) and flourish.. Let him stay in his breadbox and watch yourself be taken for a command grab throw ride and your health bar scream.

Hope this helps! :)
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Lets talk about Batgirl:

She has a fast dash, annoying, yet duckable projectile, annoying bola, predictable, yet pain in the ass (and yes punishable) teleport, high/lows for days, breaks MB B/F3... Godlike cartwheel with real options after it (what Harley's TS should be like by the way!!)

Seems to me like she works/dashes in to open you up with cartwheel shenanigans, then make you guess high/low.. Since she is so quick, my problem is usually not defending her, but landing a solid hit/punish on her (only time it seems to happen is in baited/blocked teleports) and I just get worn down over time. I believe she will back up and start tossing batarangs and bolas - baiting your zoning for a teleport? Nothing that I am aware of gets out of port range.. It scoops up jumping, SS, dashing.. So blocking is the only option..
Help me improve on this pain in my ass..

Thoughts? How do you fight her? How do you bait her teleport? Do you have success against her? Optimal range of success?
 
M

Mood4food77

Noob
against batgirl, you should rush her down, her defense is pretty bad and a lot of her stuff is actually punishable
batgirl's air-to-airs are really easily beaten out, you can't zone her because of her teleport

it's in her advantage but only 4-6, you have to keep on dat ass in order to win this match-up and hopefully she messes up a teleport

can harley instant overhead crouching characters? if she can do it with j2, her overhead problem could be solved
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Mood4food77 said:
against batgirl, you should rush her down, her defense is pretty bad and a lot of her stuff is actually punishable
batgirl's air-to-airs are really easily beaten out, you can't zone her because of her teleport

it's in her advantage but only 4-6, you have to keep on dat ass in order to win this match-up and hopefully she messes up a teleport

can harley instant overhead crouching characters? if she can do it with j2, her overhead problem could be solved
Click to expand...
2 problems
1) I tend to stay out of the air against her. Her jump ins are so positive on hit and not to mention her two teleport options usually open me up for punishment..
2) she is usually so quick on the offensive, I playing defense the whole match..
 
M

Mood4food77

Noob
go to the air, don't be afraid, her ait-to-air stuff isn't good even if she does get a hit and j1 stuffs out everything

okay, that happens a lot, it gets to be a staredown almost i'm assuming, at this point you just got to approach carefully and hope you bait a teleport
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Mood4food77 said:
go to the air, don't be afraid, her ait-to-air stuff isn't good even if she does get a hit and j1 stuffs out everything

okay, that happens a lot, it gets to be a staredown almost i'm assuming, at this point you just got to approach carefully and hope you bait a teleport
Click to expand...
Go to the air? You seem to be forgetting about her teleport scooping you up and with meter punishing the shit out of you... Not to mention she builds meter like a beast.. And being in the air on full meter means you are going for a zip line ride with a well lit moon backdrop.
 
M

Mood4food77

Noob
so she misses the teleport?

baiting the teleport is what you want to do and if you can jump back and whiff punish it, you're golden
 
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