Match-up Discussion Harley Quinn Matchup Discussion

[Mood4food77]

grundy can cancel his running grab and then anti-air grab you, it's been done many times to me (seriously, that grab has a fucking huge hitbox)

 

[xWEBSx]

grundy can cancel his running grab and then anti-air grab you, it's been done many times to me (seriously, that grab has a fucking huge hitbox)

Which is why he is 5-5.. And not 6-4, or 4-6

 

[KamkaziChicila]

if only his anti-air grab didn't grab cross-ups (seriously, that shit is dumb)

black adam at least has a high-low game...unlike harley

Black Adam has very little low into combos, the character is basically overhead into combo. All he has is low lightning and sweep

 

[Mood4food77]

you realize that he can use this to blow by your gun shots pretty easily?

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Hare's mine
Aquaman 3-7
Ares 5.5-4.5
Bane 7-3
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 4-6
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 3-7
Deathstroke 4-6
Doomsday 4-6
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 6-4
Harley Quinn 5-5
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 4-6
Killer Frost 4-6
Lex Luthor 5-5
Lobo 8-2
Nightwing 4-6
Raven 5-5
Scorpion 6.5-3.5
Shazam 5-5
Sinestro 3.5-6.5
Solomon 5-5
Superman 4-6
Wonder Woman 4-6

 

[xWEBSx]

you realize that he can use this to blow by your gun shots pretty easily?

Mood.. Harley has the advantage in a fire fight- her guns are quicker than his lighting bolt and cloud on startup- not to mention those are his only 2 options from full screen. Many range fighting Black Adams will be more than happy to burn their meter on bolts, which you can just jump to max height and guns, on reaction.. His arm goes up- so do you..insta no damage or chip taken

 

[xWEBSx]

Hare's mine
Aquaman 3-7
Ares 5.5-4.5
Bane 7-3
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 4-6
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 3-7
Deathstroke 4-6
Doomsday 4-6
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 6-4
Harley Quinn 5-5
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 4-6
Killer Frost 4-6
Lex Luthor 5-5
Lobo 8-2
Nightwing 4-6
Raven 5-5
Scorpion 6.5-3.5
Shazam 5-5
Sinestro 3.5-6.5
Solomon 5-5
Superman 4-6
Wonder Woman 4-6

Not bad... Only disagreements would be...(and not even disagreement like.. Cross the spectrum)
-Batgirl- I think her skillset leans the match to her advantage... So 4-6
-Joker-many different was to play him, but Harley seems to have a solution to each.. Bringing it closer... So 5-5
-Cyborg I would not say is 3-7.. It is a range momentum battle- his range hurts more..very little to no options if Harley gets in.. IF... 4-6, 5-5 tops..
-Wonder Woman- I don't know if I'm the only one or I have just never faced a good WW.. Much like GL, if you know her moves, what she is capable from and where, WW has a tough time getting in, I tend to take the same approach to WW, Lantern and Hawkgirl.. Keep them at a distance and make them work to get in.. Read air dashes, flight, jumps and meet them with cupcakes..I'm not mad at 4-6, but if I had to debate it I would place it more like 5-5..

I'm happy to see your read on Green Arrow and Lantern.. I tend to see these as favorable match ups even though I put it at 5-5... Only reason I put it at 5-5 is because if Harley plays them wrong, or GIVES them free hits, she loses.. But I won't argue 6-4 on these 2.

 

[Fergus]

Lantern is definitely bad for Harley. He's basically a much better version of her with stronger zoning and mixups. This is also my most played matchup as well.

Wonder Woman can use her counter to get through Harley's zoning pretty efficiently and she has a much stronger mixup game than she does, definite bad matchup.

Not a fan of Lobo 8-2, Bane 7-3, or Batgirl or Ares, Ares can teleport to punish pop pop and cupcake and he can punish TS~1 for a big combo.

Why the advantage vs Scorpion? No idea on this matchup, just wondering?

 

[xWEBSx]

Lantern is definitely bad for Harley. He's basically a much better version of her with stronger zoning and mixups. This is also my most played matchup as well.

Wonder Woman can use her counter to get through Harley's zoning pretty efficiently and she has a much stronger mixup game than she does, definite bad matchup.

Not a fan of Lobo 8-2, Bane 7-3, or Batgirl or Ares, Ares can teleport to punish pop pop and cupcake and he can punish TS~1 for a big combo.

Why the advantage vs Scorpion? No idea on this matchup, just wondering?

-Lantern I have to disagree with, his missiles can be ducked safely and can even be countered.. Once he gets inside Lanterns Might range, e becomes a headache, but overall, with good timing in your range, he is not overly troublesome. But it is because of his effective close mixups and the threat of Lanterns Might putting you into major pain- keeps it close.
I think Bane is more 6-4... But I'm not going to squabble over one match.. And The Main Man just lacks options to hurt Harley.. (I hear you knocking but you can't come in!!!) force him to get dash happy, punish those mad dashes with TS, when he slows his role while close, he will favor D, so it opens h up to F3, and JI.. I think this is Harley's most favorable matchup.. But that first say much...

 

[KamkaziChicila]

Agreed with Lantern.

Diana I say is a 4-6; her Anime air dash is really nice to counter Harley's preemptive AAs also most of Harley's rush down is shut my a push block into her b2 and then its completely back to full screen.

Lobo is 5-5 depending on the momentum of each character it can go either way.

Bane is 6-4 imo; I don't have too much trouble with him. You just need to play around his venom and strike when he's weak.

Scorpion; I don't want to give my verdict yet, seeing how its only like day 3 for him. I will remind you guys who are struggling with him to Block Down! Holding down will block teleports from full screen so no need to react to a back block

 

[xWEBSx]

Diana I say is a 4-6; her Anime air dash is really nice to counter Harley's preemptive AAs also most of Harley's rush down is shut my a push block into her b2 and then its completely back to full screen.

I would like to discuss this with you..

I agree her anime air dash is a very nice tool.. But while she is getting pelted by gunshot, with a mix of regular cupcakes and pop pop, she really has to rely on her tiger kneed flying charge, which can be blocked.. Then B2,2 becomes your fried against her- potentially getting more space back.. And just like Supes, she relies on on her empty air dash, air dash to tiara, or air dash to downward charge.. All which can be read and countered preemptively by MB cupcakes, then the only thing she can attempt to do is outwit you with a back air dash.. To still keep herself full screen at the cost of a meter.. Much like GL and HG, from full screen once they jump..there is no reason NOT to MB cupcake... Whereas Supes has the advantage with his air laser, which trades at best if you preemptive strike his jump with cupcake.

 

[Fergus]

Don't forget about her counter, which absorbs projectile with her taking no damage and recovers instantly, it's a really good way to approach Harley, she can even absorb her b+3 and get a full meterless combo.

 

[xWEBSx]

Don't forget about her counter, which absorbs projectile with her taking no damage and recovers instantly, it's a really good way to approach Harley, she can even absorb her b+3 and get a full meterless combo.

Taken into consideration.. I believe this to be a great tool against visible projectiles.. Shazam, Supes, a bit tougher vs the invisible projectiles.. Joker, Harley.. Tends to mess up WE timing.. Factored in with various MB gunshot... Still see her kept out.. I believe Ravens projectile reversal suffers from the same issue..

 

[Fergus]

Also I heavily disagree with Green Lantern matchup, this is not even nor in Harley's favour, I play 2 pretty good GLs offline and she straight up struggles in this, air missile gives her problems and the fact that he just has way better mixups than her, I've already explained my views on the matchup in GL thread.

 

[Mood4food77]

how the hell could green lantern be considered an even match-up for harley?
it's like facing a more damaging raven, if you're anything but full screen, you lose
lantern's light stops harley from doing anything

 

[KamkaziChicila]

Taken into consideration.. I believe this to be a great tool against visible projectiles.. Shazam, Supes, a bit tougher vs the invisible projectiles.. Joker, Harley.. Tends to mess up WE timing.. Factored in with various MB gunshot... Still see her kept out.. I believe Ravens projectile reversal suffers from the same issue..

WW just has to duck Gunshots and she can absorb both Cupcakes and Pop Pops. I don't know, when I play against her more often than not its a up hill fight.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Also I heavily disagree with Green Lantern matchup, this is not even nor in Harley's favour, I play 2 pretty good GLs offline and she straight up struggles in this, air missile gives her problems and the fact that he just has way better mixups than her, I've already explained my views on the matchup in GL thread.

I think it's in Harley's favor her gunshot beats all his projectiles and if they do it at the same time, green lantern gets hit for 4% while harley can duck it, while she is gunshotting she is gaining meter and can MB cupcakes to keep his jump projectile in check (or jump over it mid screen). Green lantern has to play rush down and this will make them impatient opening them up for mistakes. it is in his favor when he gets in, but the one time he makes a micstake e.g db1 predicting a jump, Harley can make him pay with b22 combo ending it with 1,1,2 cupcake to make him get in as well. Don't forget she can also d1 out of pressure which can be cancelled into tantrum~1 for a full combo

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

Harley's short throw range has been pissing me off lately lol. I whiff a throw and get thrown because hers has the reach of a mouse dick.

Anyways, i agree with most of these matchups.

I see Grundy at 6-4 for Harley tho
There really isnt a reason to get hit by anything grundy can do in neutral game unless you make a mistake and he makes an amazing read. But imo "mistakes" are not something to be factored in a MU. MU's should be based on tools and metagame

*edit*
i forgot to add that TS-1 blows through walking corpse armor. It doesnt grab her for whatever reason

 

[nightE89]

I have to agree with the MU for GL, it is not in the favor of HQ, so far as of now I have to play her like she DS cause of lanterns might then go in if GL messes up then back off like guerrilla tactics.

 

[Mood4food77]

green lantern's light is 1/2 - 2/3 the screen, so all he has to do is close the gap and he gets an instant 40%+ combo

harley can't zone that well, her damage is piss poor (4% for every gun shot, 9% if MB, 9% for both pop-pop and cupcake bombs), all the opponents have to do is net a trade and they gain the advantage

if grundy has 1 bar, he gets in for free and can keep constant pressure on you (especially when getting beat up builds meter faster than dishing out damage) and he can do MB swamp hands on reaction to any projectile you throw on the ground (it's really tight timing though), harley doesn't win this match-up, at best its' 5-5

against green lantern, your air stopping projectiles dont' reach as far as his air bullets and in a range in which they would work, you get grabbed by lantern's light, there is absolutely no way harley wins this fight, right off the bat you're at a disadvantaged position and can't do shit to get to your best spot

we can't view perfect characters of each, we're human, mistakes happens and that's usually who wins the match-up

but who gets the most benefit in the match-up when one makes a mistake first, grundy and lantern get the first chance to put pressure on harley, what does harley threaten them with (against grundy, her best option is jump back but he can snuff that out, you actually have to outpredict grundy to have an advantage, against GL, you can only block)

 

[xWEBSx]

green lantern's light is 1/2 - 2/3 the screen, so all he has to do is close the gap and he gets an instant 40%+ combo

harley can't zone that well, her damage is piss poor (4% for every gun shot, 9% if MB, 9% for both pop-pop and cupcake bombs), all the opponents have to do is net a trade and they gain the advantage

if grundy has 1 bar, he gets in for free and can keep constant pressure on you (especially when getting beat up builds meter faster than dishing out damage) and he can do MB swamp hands on reaction to any projectile you throw on the ground (it's really tight timing though), harley doesn't win this match-up, at best its' 5-5

against green lantern, your air stopping projectiles dont' reach as far as his air bullets and in a range in which they would work, you get grabbed by lantern's light, there is absolutely no way harley wins this fight, right off the bat you're at a disadvantaged position and can't do shit to get to your best spot

we can't view perfect characters of each, we're human, mistakes happens and that's usually who wins the match-up

but who gets the most benefit in the match-up when one makes a mistake first, grundy and lantern get the first chance to put pressure on harley, what does harley threaten them with (against grundy, her best option is jump back but he can snuff that out, you actually have to outpredict grundy to have an advantage, against GL, you can only block)

It's getting into lanterns might rage that gets Hal fucked up.. Why are people crediting his air missile with any kind of threat? It's a solo projectile that can be jumped or back/front dashed (space pending) and also causes him to jump BACKWARD (which is what we want). I invite Hal to a fire fight, I WISH Hal would think he can outzone me.. Any Hal that wants to stand full screen from Harley should be punished, and defeated period. His breadbox is just outside sweep where Lanterns Might keeps you from being jump happy, where his mixup of OH flip kick and forward slide kick pressure cause Harley damage..

Mood.. You are not making any sense to me.. It appears by what you are saying that you play each character the same with no type of thought about how to play each MU.. The key with Harley is her versatility... DS should not be approached the same as Grundy.. If you use the same tactics for every character, you are looking for losses... And apparently finding them..

 

[Katt]

I disagree with soupes. That matchup seems more like 7-3 / 8-2 in his favor.

GL/Harley is 5-5 imho. It's all about the distance, not the characters.

 

[Mood4food77]

i've admitted grundy-harley is 5-5, it's not in her favor, he's got just the right tools to make this match-up troublesome for harley

there is no way GL is close to even or in harley's favor, it's her 2nd worst match-up outside of aquaman (fuck him...), he does outzone her, all he needs for is a trade (i think his bullets do 9% normally), if it's close to even, it shouldn't feel like an uphill battle the entire time of you trying not to fuck up while Mr. Hal Jordan can go about things normally. Nothing harley does threatens him, he's got Green Lantern's Might. Harley's gunshots also make her take a step forward, so basically, all he has to do is crouch, walk up, repeat until you're in Light's range.

There is no way this is a good match-up for harley. It's awful and probably 3-7 in his favor.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

back dash after multiple gunshots... If you are getting outzoned by green lantern you are zoning wrong.

 

[Mood4food77]

all he needs is one hit