Match-up Discussion Harley Quinn Matchup Discussion

[xWEBSx]

F23 isn't my problem. Its when superman just wants to zone. Its impossible to get in considering also her back walk speed is faster than her forward. So when you block
Meter burn eye laser, it actually always is worse because when you stand to block it you take steps back from holding back in addition to the pushback.


Superman doesn't even have to take the best harley player seriously. Spammed eye laser = sad harley

Superman is all about the life lead and punishing slow normals FROM THE RIGHT RANGE. when a bit further from sweep Many Supes cant lay Off the F2,3 (and Why should they?) but all it takes for Harley is not even blocking, back dashing (before block range) then reaching out and touching him with a B3/MBB3 or F3/MBF3..And if you prove to the Superman that he can't hurt you with his lasers (by giving him a good punish or two for his efforts) he will be forced to play more honest.. However if it comes down to the line with the clock ticking and are both at low health, and you both have meter, its his victory as nothing in Harleys arsenal can punish his air lasers from full screen and his trait and chip alone can finish you, couple that with the fact that if Supes is sitting on FULL meter.. He can literally punish any attempt you give at getting in or attacking with the best punish super in the game and that my friends means gg For Harley.

 

[serge]

I can't seem to win vs any half decent Superman thanks to his laser spam.
I prefer fighting Superman at melee range (even if that means getting owned) than having to dodge my way through the laser spam.

Yaaaaaawn..

 

[Fergus]

I feel Superman is extremely hard for her as well.

 

[Jermball]

My ultimate problem is people not willing to play up close. Superman is a terror up close, but he's an even bigger terror for harley on laser spam... I need to test how to avoid this..but i think it's possible to hop a laser, and silly slide before the second one starts and get under it.

 

[xWEBSx]

My ultimate problem is people not willing to play up close. Superman is a terror up close, but he's an even bigger terror for harley on laser spam... I need to test how to avoid this..but i think it's possible to hop a laser, and silly slide before the second one starts and get under it.

Supes laser standing and air both start closer to him and go forward.. Technically both of his lasers can be jumped (distance dependent) jumping guns is great for doing this (MB jumping guns if needed) however you have to account where both moves while jumped leaves you and what options it leaves both characters.
If you are full screen from one another you can just neutral jump and air guns both lasers (watch out for MB lasers) you can still jump and air guns while moving forward as well... Closer you are to his head, safer you are since his vision never goes completely across like ==========

 

[Jermball]

Supermans i play will jump up, pause air dash, and whiff or just air dash. . it's just a pain to see a real pattern of lasers when they are random with it

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

D3 antiairs body splash

Wow i am immediately testing this. I bet this didnt work before tey nerfed spashes hitbox. This sounds extremely useful

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

Man, I've been sent to the lab to investigate the ins and outs of the Killer Frost MU. I got sent to loser's and sent to hell by the same KF player resulting in me coming 3rd in the recent London InJustice tournament. With that said I had never played a KF before and was unaware of what she was capable of or why people considered her so high. Now I know lol. She has possibly the best 50/50 game and resets I've seen. It was too little too late but the main thing I took away from my matches was that baiting slide and punishing with NJ2 was key. What do you guys think?

Learn KF's combo. The 50/50 reset is pretty easy to read in a live game when you know what it looks like. Try to zone her a lot but be careful with your cakes. Up-backing is pretty safe against her if you need space, just try not to walk back or dash back twice in a row. Good luck next time man

 

[Ramon]

Actually no. Superman CANNOT outzone Harley! Practice punishing it with a reversal df1 gunshot. you can shoot him before he lands everytime! PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Also you can d1 between his string of breath, F23. Again Harley players, i need you all to practice this a TON!

 

[Ramon]

Learn KF's combo. The 50/50 reset is pretty easy to read in a live game when you know what it looks like. Try to zone her a lot but be careful with your cakes. Up-backing is pretty safe against her if you need space, just try not to walk back or dash back twice in a row. Good luck next time man

also you cant NJ2 it. she will end behind you. You have to back jump! i Money matched a KF (Flux) and he was getting upset because KF cant do ANYTHING about you in the air! practice annoying the KF with JB Shots and punish the ever living fuck when he slides and you JB it.

 

[serge]

So you d1 after the f23 or after the breath? Can't test I'm at work

 

[Mood4food77]

who does harley actually beat? cause i'm not finding a match-up in which she has the advantage

the buffs to bane make that even, as well as going even with joker, lobo, and lex....and then she loses to everyone else

 

[Jermball]

Actually no. Superman CANNOT outzone Harley! Practice punishing it with a reversal df1 gunshot. you can shoot him before he lands everytime! PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Also you can d1 between his string of breath, F23. Again Harley players, i need you all to practice this a TON!

I agree and actually know this.. but let me try to explain my situation of zoning and why I still feel Harley Quinn loses overall to his zoning, and that you have to work 4x harder than him.

So when i first started I was actually doing this and still do this. However if he spams at a height where gunshot is hard to hit, so if you have to block and respond with gunshot it doesn't work, but as I type this now i'm wondering if i jump over laser as it goes up, then try to gunshot or cupcake would it work. the problem i have with fullscreen laser is when they change their pattern. jump back laser, jump dash back laser, jump late back dash laser, jump whiff normal into laser, you get the idea...theres a ton of ways to switch your pattern up as superman...and if they MB air laser...forget it...the pushback makes you have to work all over again to get in. F2+3 is a nightmare to deal with, but again D1 will work but will more likely trade, i'm not sure if superman can confirm off that... but i know harley can full punish 30-35% with D1 start

 

[xWEBSx]

who does harley actually beat? cause i'm not finding a match-up in which she has the advantage

the buffs to bane make that even, as well as going even with joker, lobo, and lex....and then she loses to everyone else

Outright landslide victory? No one
Slight edge? No one
Even with many
Potential to lose to many

Overall an uphill battle each time
Even or disadvantage on all MU's
Very player specific character.. Player does well, executes well.. She looks like an all-star, player misses with her, has an off game she looks lowest tier...

Love her or hate her- that's our Harley
(in current build)

 

[Mood4food77]

literally only needs a few tweaks here and there (only 1 of them being major) and she'd move up

someone said that she beats hawkgirl but i don't see it, that glide attack hawkgirl has gets around so much of what harley does

 

[xWEBSx]

literally only needs a few tweaks here and there (only 1 of them being major) and she'd move up

someone said that she beats hawkgirl but i don't see it, that glide attack hawkgirl has gets around so much of what harley does

I see where people say she has a proper victory over Hawkgirl...in a her tools vs her tools theory fighter.. So that makes it what? 6-4? Hahah... I would still say 5-5 (competent Hawkgirl) and even if it were 6-4, that is nothing to write home about.

 

[serge]

She doesn't have any good match up because anyone can block her low all day and block standing when she jumps. I tryed mixing the F2 xx ts1 with or without ji2 before it but its too slow and gets interrupted by any character's d1

 

[Mood4food77]

even giving her a viable overhead though doesn't fix her biggest problem: getting in to a threatening distance

she's gonna need a lot of stuff

 

[xWEBSx]

She doesn't have any good match up because anyone can block her low all day and block standing when she jumps. I tryed mixing the F2 xx ts1 with or without ji2 before it but its too slow and gets interrupted by any character's d1

Pretty much... Which means that ANY victory had to be worked for..

One can just hit the lab with Supes... Learn 1 solid string and see how he reacts to his laser/eye laser.. Take him online and mindlessly rack up wins.... Simple, brainless, no fun in my opinion..get distance, air laser, air laser all day.. they get close-- solid string, get distance, repeat. I played an outstanding Harley player from the boards here.. I believe it was Burgesss.. And just as a test, I had him come at me 100% with his Harley while all I did was use air laser, ground laser and keep away..(NOT EVEN KNOWING SUPES moves) Burgesss ended up winning the match.. But off of mindless zoning, I kept it way closer than it deserved to be, and had no business having Burgesss health where it was.

 

[nightE89]

Pretty much... Which means that ANY victory had to be worked for..

One can just hit the lab with Supes... Learn 1 solid string and see how he reacts to his laser/eye laser.. Take him online and mindlessly rack up wins.... Simple, brainless, no fun in my opinion..get distance, air laser, air laser all day.. they get close-- solid string, get distance, repeat. I played an outstanding Harley player from the boards here.. I believe it was Burgesss.. And just as a test, I had him come at me 100% with his Harley while all I did was use air laser, ground laser and keep away..(NOT EVEN KNOWING SUPES moves) Burgesss ended up winning the match.. But off of mindless zoning, I kept it way closer than it deserved to be, and had no business having Burgesss health where it was.​

And this is why I love harley she ACTUALLY TAKES SKILL to use cant just mash ur way to victory. Like I picked up Batman to play a few rounds, and without looking at his skills just know from the countless I fought, I realize that most characters in this game is just easy mode cause of the zoning meta in this game so far.

 

[Mood4food77]

i played a sinestro online

i fucked him up in the beginning, straight up schooled him, now i finish with the first round with him in the corner so i go for a good unclashable combo, f3 into b3 stage transition

now after the transition ends, we're at a full screen away, this is so unfair to harley because she can't zone sinestro worth a shit and her shitty dash doesn't help her approach him either...i proceed to lose the match because i decided to go for a stage transition that gave sinestro a huge advantage

poor harley

 

[xWEBSx]

And this is why I love harley she ACTUALLY TAKES SKILL to use cant just mash ur way to victory. Like I picked up Batman to play a few rounds, and without looking at his skills just know from the countless I fought, I realize that most characters in this game is just easy mode cause of the zoning meta in this game so far.

I agree 100%.

 

[serge]

She has a hard time getting in that's for sure but when she finally does she has a sick corner game imo. Usually when I get my opponent in the corner they will lose their bar no matter how much there is left in it unless they are better than me then they find a way to get out. For now

 

[Mood4food77]

what sick corner game does she have?

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

I think other characters are easier because thy have hit confirms. Its easy to see something landed and then proceed with your combo. When using harley any combo must be input passed the first string before you even know if you hit anything. The exception to this is raw TS, a2a j2, and 2 u3.

With superman, for example, if f23 hits an opponent whether his feet are on the ground or not, you have a million years to go ahead and decide how you want to follow up that stray hit.