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Green Lantern Post Stream Talk (Nov Balance Patch)

Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
Hey guys, so the Watchtower stream from yesterday came along with a lot of interesting changes that will definitely change the meta. NRS hasn't really spoken a word about Green Lantern, but I like to believe that they're satisfied about his placement on the tier. However, with of the recent changes to a few of the mid-tier chars that have seemingly moved up the list, I don't agree with his lower placement. GL hasn't really been a popular character, and it goes to show that even the only competitive player who could actually do something with GL has stated to drop GL until any patches occur. I wouldn't be necessarily happy, but okay with GL moving down the tier if that is what NRS intended to do. IMO GL is supposed to be an all around average guy, but his zoning is still one of the worst, his "mixups" are pretty gimmicky and his strings have issues and are so limited, it makes me think much harder about 5-5 mus. Arguably one of the most balanced chars in the game with the potential to be the most fun and creative playstyle, it's sad to think NRS's imagination and willpower only amounted to this :DOGE

Gross posted earlier today on a few of GL's issues:

So let's talk. What's your current opinion on GL? Does he need to be fixed, maybe a couple buffs/nerfs or is he fine where he is? I'm open to anything and if you think differently, don't hesitate to explain why you think so.
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Contender for bottom 10 now that characters have been passing him up left and right. And I am someone who said he was 11-15 earlier in the game's life. I am very sad. :(
 

Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
Contender for bottom 10 now that characters have been passing him up left and right. And I am someone who said he was 11-15 earlier in the game's life. I am very sad. :(
I don't know if I'd say he's bottom 10, but I think he's not too far off, maybe 2-4 more chars? I wish they could somehow change the moves or make the moves able to combo for good meterless/1 bar damage, make him similar to fate with creativity. I think he has potentially one of the most unique playstyles but they don't make use of it
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
I just switched mains from Fate to GL and I'm afraid Gross is right..

I personally would like a couple things:

- (buff) slightly increased combo damage
- (fix) improve hitbox on 123
- (fix) improve hitbox on lanterns might

They could do other things with GL, like make the boulder (currently -6 on hit) and the battery blasts better zoning tools cause right now he probably has the worst zoning out of all the characters equipped to zone. They clearly made his rushdown game worse with the intention of redesigning him with better zoning but his zoning options are worse than igau..

I really see 2 routes that they can take with Hal; reinforce his space control by buffing the frames on the zoning or slightly increase his damage so it's worth it when he opens you up.

@Bes110
@DTruth
@Cashual
@II Tundra II
@BunLantern
@gitblame
@Khalil0703
 
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gitblame

Noob
I put some thoughts on discord some time ago.
Unquestionable reasonable changes:
BF2 should be slightly plus on hit. Because now our mixup B12 // B1BF2 has really no reward.
We should be able to combo from traited BF2 MB upclose
Slightly less damage scaling on B13 combos (If we use 1 bar of meter and whole trait bar we should get at least solid 33% of opponents life bar).
Fix B2 whiffing issues

Questionable change:
After some thinking I realized the one thing that would really helped GL is making regular wall safe.
Wall is already really mediocre wake up option since it's very easy to stuff. Making it safe would not affect Lantern's wake up game that much.
It would give us better meter build game and create some kind of mindgames from GL's D1. Our D1 is -1 on block. Combined with safe special it would be serious tool in out arsenal. Now it's kinda useless feature because noone is respecting you after D1.

I do not believe he sucks completely but he's far from the best characters in the game. I play casually and on my level of play there is much less character impact. I understand Gross's struggle and disappointment, though. He wants to compete on highest level and with GL it might be too difficult. Characters on very similar tier position pre patch was significally buffed and he received only useless super buff and cool shaders :)
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
I put some thoughts on discord some time ago.
Unquestionable reasonable changes:
BF2 should be slightly plus on hit. Because now our mixup B12 // B1BF2 has really no reward.
We should be able to combo from traited BF2 MB upclose
Slightly less damage scaling on B13 combos (If we use 1 bar of meter and whole trait bar we should get at least solid 33% of opponents life bar).
Fix B2 whiffing issues

Questionable change:
After some thinking I realized the one thing that would really helped GL is making regular wall safe.
Wall is already really mediocre wake up option since it's very easy to stuff. Making it safe would not affect Lantern's wake up game that much.
It would give us better meter build game and create some kind of mindgames from GL's D1. Our D1 is -1 on block. Combined with safe special it would be serious tool in out arsenal. Now it's kinda useless feature because noone is respecting you after D1.

I do not believe he sucks completely but he's far from the best characters in the game. I play casually and on my level of play there is much less character impact. I understand Gross's struggle and disappointment, though. He wants to compete on highest level and with GL it might be too difficult. Characters on very similar tier position pre patch was significally buffed and he received only useless super buff and cool shaders :)
Can I get a link to the discord please? Ive been looking for one since i switched over
 
Can we wait and see how this current meta will shape up?

What recently buffed character is now better than Green Lantern? Blue Beetle? Joker? Swampthing? Firestorm?
 
-2231 should be +2
-air dash when trait is active
-less gaps, 2231 (nobody on a casual level is backdashing that btw) b1 3 and b1 2
-small damage buff

For starters...
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Can we wait and see how this current meta will shape up?

What recently buffed character is now better than Green Lantern? Blue Beetle? Joker? Swampthing? Firestorm?
I think firestorm and blue beetle are probably overall better than GL, not sure about joker or swampy, I just dont know those characters at all.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
And to be clear, I don't think GL is shit tier or absolutely worthless. I'd say he's average or just below average. But in this game, that puts him pretty far down. But he definitely competes in a lot of matchups.

And as I've said before, I don't play at the highest level, and neither do the majority of people I play. I rarely feel like the reason I lost is because GL holds me back. I only feel that way in a few MUs. Usually when I get mopped up it's because the other person is better or I haven't put the time in to learn the matchup.

So I'm really not that salty about any of this.
 
GL is definitely not bad at all and I've said before in a game this balanced he's still solid but just may need a few tweaks.

I usually hate buff request threads do to the fact you get guys like Salads who don’t know their ass from their elbow chiming in, but you'll have that these days.

Sometimes I feel like NRS missed out or failed on making a really unique character design with Hal. It feels like a copy and paste from IGAU but apparently worse (I didn't play him in the 1st one). He has arguably the most powerful weapon in the DCU, but his constructs are unimaginative and a little bland imo. I know this rant is off topic from frame data and whatever fighting game terminology you want to throw in there.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
I never said GL is bad I just said fix 2 things that are unacceptable and *maybe* buff the damage that's it. So if I think he could use a change I automatically think he's bad?

If GL could use some changes to reform his playstyle that means Fred Marvel is right? Smh

You guys are just as unreasonable as him if you're gonna nitpick small *fixes* to the character. I'm the one speaking in moderation here..fred marvel and the people arguing with him are the unrealistic ones, you're both taking your positions on the most extreme parts of the spectrum.

Who sounds reasonable guys?

- GL needs 2 hitbox fixes and more damage (me)
- GL doesn't need any fixes/changes to compete (everyone that doesn't play GL)
- GL needs minigun and air rocket(Fred marvel)

The answer is me.
 
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Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I never said GL is bad I just said fix 2 things that are unacceptable and *maybe* buff the damage that's it. So if I think he could use a change I automatically think he's bad?

If GL could use some changes to reform his playstyle that means Fred Marvel is right? Smh

You guys are just as unreasonable as him if you're gonna nitpick small *fixes* to the character. I'm the one speaking in moderation here..fred marvel and the people arguing with him are the unrealistic ones, you're both taking your positions on the most extreme part of the spectrums.

Who sounds reasonable guys?

- GL needs 2 hitbox fixes and more damage (me)
- GL doesn't need any fixes/changes to compete (everyone that doesn't play GL)
- GL needs minigun and air rocket(Fred marvel)

The answer is me.
No one is directly responding to you, I think you're being a little defensive.

Speaking for myself I'm responding to the general opinion shift on GL since the patch and since Gross' video.

And I have lobbied for changes to GL for months since probably July or August, so I'm not it the he's just totally fine camp.

I've argued for 2231 to be more plus +2 or +3 if the gap stays, or keep it the same but remove the gap. Personally I'd like the gap to stay and for the move be +2 so characters with 6f jabs have to respect my d1 check after 2231.

I've also asked for a better hitbox on lift (mostly vertically) so that it functions as an AA. However, I'm so comfortable swinging for the fences with d2 as an AA which is very good, that I don't really care about lift changes any more. It would be nice if non trait lift actually connected in the corner though.

I've also asked for bf2 to be more plus on hit and for wall to have better i frames or some other change to make his wakeup a bit less stuffable. It's not like we get damage off of regular or MB wall, I think it should be more in line with Ivy's new wakeup where at least it comes out and makes the opponent respect it once in a while.

I really enjoy playing GL, and will main him through the games life unless TMNT blows me away, or possibly Enchantress.
 
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No one is directly responding to you, I think you're being a little defensive.

Speaking for myself I'm responding to the general opinion shift on GL since the patch and since Gross' video.

And I have lobbied for changes to GL for months since probably July or August, so I'm not it the he's just totally fine camp.

I've argued for 2231 to be more plus +2 or +3 if the gap stays, or keep it the same but remove the gap. Personally I'd like the gap to stay and for the move be +2 so characters with 6f jabs have to respect my d1 check after 2231.

I've also asked for a better hitbox on lift (mostly vertically) so that it functions as an AA. However, I'm so comfortable swinging for the fences with d2 as an AA which is very good, that I don't really care about lift changes any more. It would be nice if non trait lift actually connected in the corner though.

I've also asked for bf2 to be more plus on hit and for wall to have better i frames or some other change to make his wakeup a bit less stuffable. It's not like we get damage off of regular or MB wall, I think it should be more in line with Ivy's new wakeup where at least it comes out and makes the opponent respect it once in a while.

I really enjoy playing GL, and will main him through the games life unless TMNT blows me away, or possibly Enchantress.
Good stuff man!! To add to your comment, I'm on the fence on the hit box of Lanterns Might. His D2 is really strong like you said so I haven't gotten into a habit of using LM as an AA. Also I think his J1 as an "air to air" is arguably the best in the game. On another note I'm pretty hype for the Turtles!!
 

BunLantern

Long live b13 minigun
I honestly haven't been playing Injustice2 lately (maybe 2 times in the past 6 weeks) but game play wise GL is fine. He competes with most characters and the Deadshot nerf really helped him in that specific match up. He'll never be a top tier character but he can compete with everyone, even his shit match ups like Darkseid and Fate are winnable and no one 7-3s him. You can buff LM's and 112's hit box all you want, it won't change much because his strings aren't his problem.

Honestly I just hate how uninspired he seems this time around, it's as if NRS didn't really care and only threw him into the game because he's GL and HAS to be in a DC fighting game. Nothing about boulders, battery blasts, and exploding lanterns says Hal Jordan (or even John Stewert) at all. I don't know for the life of me why they removed missiles, planes, rockets and giant guns from his tool set, because that shit was perfect. Its really irked me ever since the game came out and I feel like if someone on their design team just read a few GL comics or didn't touch him from IGAU1 he would have been fine.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Good stuff man!! To add to your comment, I'm on the fence on the hit box of Lanterns Might. His D2 is really strong like you said so I haven't gotten into a habit of using LM as an AA. Also I think his J1 as an "air to air" is arguably the best in the game. On another note I'm pretty hype for the Turtles!!
Other than deadshots J1, you might be right. I saw Hellboy has like a 5f J3 I think it was that looks like it could be a nasty A to A, but I only went into practice with him to look at frame data and try a couple combos so no idea how it is in actual use, but it looked great in training.
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
I played a Supergirl with my GL and got beat up cuz he can't counterzone, she negates his neutral, she outdamages him now, and I can't just advance in cuz she has superior mobilty to just do whatever the fuck she wants. I switched to my 2 day Black Adam and mopped his shit...

GL sucks, he holds me back. He holds a lot of us back and some don't even realize it. Im playing Adam and Aqua until he gets fixed.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I played a Supergirl with my GL and got beat up cuz he can't counterzone, she negates his neutral, she outdamages him now, and I can't just advance in cuz she has superior mobilty to just do whatever the fuck she wants. I switched to my 2 day Black Adam and mopped his shit...

GL sucks, he holds me back. He holds a lot of us back and some don't even realize it. Im playing Adam and Aqua until he gets fixed.
I used to think GL and SG was a clean 5-5 not so sure anymore these days.