Green Lantern Post Stream Talk (Nov Balance Patch)

[Vigilante24]

I used to think GL and SG was a clean 5-5 not so sure anymore these days.

After her buffs I've always said it was a losing MU for GL. Can confirm it probably is true not only from my experience but from my Supergirl maining friend from the Kinetic Clan who is consistently in Top 20 for Player Match (such a shame he isn't able to travel much. He competes with players like Theo ). He strongly believes GL loses that MU.

GL is good, he’s just excruciatingly fair and what you see is what you get with him

Seems to be a common theme with NRS games.

 

[DubiousShenron]

Hal is average to below average in literally every measurable category. I can't even put his footsies at above average because even when lands a poke (b1), you can't convert into too much damage or guaranteed setup potential.

B1 leading into light damage makes sense from a balance standpoint because b1 is superior to almost all other pokes in the game and can be extremely abusable in certain matchups. There's just certain matchups where he will struggle and I think his current design doesn't address some glaring issues.

Screen control is one of his best qualities but he doesn't even have the frames on his zoning tools to keep it up for very long..

 

[THTB]

GL I feel is low tier. Changes I'd do for the next update:

-+2 on 2231
-2231 block advantage fix
-LM hitbox buff
-Better recovery on projectiles (Like, why is bowl so negative lol?)

FM was right, but w/e. He's a really weak character under pressure, but doesn't really have something that gives him a reason to be.

 

[MysTiiK_V]

??? Lantern is bad???

i know right, hes fine like so balanced. No nerfs or buffs

 

[Da Tac0]

I just switched mains from Fate to GL and I'm afraid Gross is right..

I personally would like a couple things:

- (buff) slightly increased combo damage
- (fix) improve hitbox on 123
- (fix) improve hitbox on lanterns might

They could do other things with GL, like make the boulder (currently -6 on hit) and the battery blasts better zoning tools cause right now he probably has the worst zoning out of all the characters equipped to zone. They clearly made his rushdown game worse with the intention of redesigning him with better zoning but his zoning options are worse than igau..

I really see 2 routes that they can take with Hal; reinforce his space control by buffing the frames on the zoning or slightly increase his damage so it's worth it when he opens you up.

@Bes110
@DTruth
@Cashual
@II Tundra II
@BunLantern
@gitblame
@Khalil0703

It's funny you said that cause I left GL for fate because everything gross said is the troof. A really good player will fist GL.

 

[DubiousShenron]

It's funny you said that cause I left GL for fate because everything gross said is the troof. A really good player will fist GL.

Can I get some matches with you?

 

[Hellz HitmaN]

He's definitely bottom 10, maybe bottom 5.

If you don't think he is, name 10 characters that are worse. I'll wait

 

[AkioOf100]

I feel like the game is so balanced that many tier lists will find overlapping quantities, like 3 different #1s and 8 different #7s, etc. Bottom tier is probably a thing, but it’s not as bad of a thing as it has been in previous NRS games. GL can definitely compete, even if he’s “bottom tier”.

 

[PetulantWaste]

He's definitely bottom 10, maybe bottom 5.

If you don't think he is, name 10 characters that are worse. I'll wait

Can you name 22 characters that are definitely better?

I'll wait.

 

[Da Tac0]

Can I get some matches with you?

Sure mayun anytime

 

[dc1902]

I played a Supergirl with my GL and got beat up cuz he can't counterzone, she negates his neutral, she outdamages him now, and I can't just advance in cuz she has superior mobilty to just do whatever the fuck she wants. I switched to my 2 day Black Adam and mopped his shit...

GL sucks, he holds me back. He holds a lot of us back and some don't even realize it. Im playing Adam and Aqua until he gets fixed.

GL doesn't suck,bro. You could try learning the Supergirl match up so you can defend against her bnb strings. And punish her if she does something unsafe. I don't think any character sucks in this game if you know the game system and have very strong fundamentals.

 

[qcevolution]

On a sidenote

Can I just take a moment to say how impressed I am with Gross's english. He speaks it so well, and according to the War of the Gods commentators he could barely speak it at all wen he first appeared on the scene. Hats off to Gross english isn't easy to learn.

 

[Vigilante24]

GL doesn't suck,bro. You could try learning the Supergirl match up so you can defend against her bnb strings. And punish her if she does something unsafe. I don't think any character sucks in this game if you know the game system and have very strong fundamentals.

Yes he kinda does. I have a nice little essay typed up about why he sucks if you would like to take a read. I have already had one player who also said GL didn't suck discuss him with me for an hour, and he switched his opinion after I educated him about the character, and now realizes he is nowhere near as strong as he thought he was. I am prepared to discuss with more players.

 

[Cashual]

Yes he kinda does. I have a nice little essay typed up about why he sucks if you would like to take a read. I have already had one player who also said GL didn't suck discuss him with me for an hour, and he switched his opinion after I educated him about the character, and now realizes he is nowhere near as strong as he thought he was. I am prepared to discuss with more players.

I'd like to see the essay

 

[Da Tac0]

@DubiousShenron just shoot me a msg on Xbox mayun.

 

[Hellz HitmaN]

Can you name 22 characters that are definitely better?

I'll wait.

I gotchu. Here are 22 characters better than Lantern:

1. Supergirl
2. Superman
3. Batman
4. Aquaman
5. Wonder Woman
6. Flash
7. Scarecrow
8. Atrocitus
9. Red Hood
10. Firestorm
11. Dr. Fate
12. Black Adam
13. Green Arrow
14. Starfire
15. Darkseid
16. Bane
17. Black Manta
18. Black Canary
19. Brainiac
20. Blue Beetle
21. Robin
22. Sub-Zero

 

[PetulantWaste]

I gotchu. Here are 22 characters better than Lantern:

1. Supergirl
2. Superman
3. Batman
4. Aquaman
5. Wonder Woman
6. Flash
7. Scarecrow
8. Atrocitus
9. Red Hood
10. Firestorm
11. Dr. Fate
12. Black Adam
13. Green Arrow
14. Starfire
15. Darkseid
16. Bane
17. Black Manta
18. Black Canary
19. Brainiac
20. Blue Beetle
21. Robin
22. Sub-Zero

Ok I'm gonna need some explanations on why you think Black Manta, Bane, Aquaman, Wonderwoman, Black Canary, Atrocitus, Brainiac, Robin, Blue Beetle and Darkseid are better than Green Lantern.

Most of these characters have maybe 1 player who's particularly good with them and basically no presence after that. Y'all have to respect the player not the character sometimes because it's so easy to just talk match up numbers but it's a lot harder to take a character like Robin and beat Superman in tournament by outplaying your opponent rather than using easier tools.

In terms of match up numbers I just saw a thread that had Black Canary, for example, having literally no winning match ups and like 11 losing ones.

Aquaman has fallen off the face of the Earth since his nerd. I agree he's still pretty solid but he is by no means top 5.

Darkseid is whatever. It's 50/50s all day with trait and bunny hopping when you don't. You're gonna lose sometimes to it but does that mean he's top tier? Go over to his forums and you'll see people asking for neutral game buffs.

Dr Fate is probably being overrated right now. He's another character with maybe 2 all in character specialists who make him look broken and some really lopsided match ups but I think Fate loses a lot of lopsided match ups too. If can 7-3 Arrow then he can get 3-7 by a character like Darkseid with similar zoning speed and tons of ways around Dr Fate's tools.

Wonder woman. Another favorite of mine probably because you see Yungmonster putting in work online and think that makes Wonderwoman amazing. Hell no. She has tons of weaknesses. It's just that people don't respect the hours these people put into making their mediocre characters look broken. The same thing happened with Sonicfox and Captain Cold.

I'd say most of these are probably just as good as Green Lantern and probably have the same amount of bad match ups.

 

[AkioOf100]

robin more fraudulent than gl but i digress. i dont think those 22 characters are /all/ better than gl due to how well the game is balanced as far as utility in characters.

i wouldnt deny GL some buffs though, so long as theyre necessary. bc i find it kinda hard to beat a really talented GL as blue beetle thx to his full-screen presence w/ lanterns + 3 frame mid projectile + anti-airing lift from a certain distance. while he is supremely negative on all of them i think it still warrants respect. maybe they should make bowling ball a bit less negative on block, and decrease the gravity on mb so you can follow up w/ a B3 in trait?

 

[Vigilante24]

Ok I'm gonna need some explanations on why you think Black Manta, Bane, Aquaman, Wonderwoman, Black Canary, Atrocitus, Brainiac, Robin, Blue Beetle and Darkseid are better than Green Lantern.

Every single character on that list, except maybe Black Canary, either handle the cast better than he does and/or do not suffer from being a super meter dependent high risk low reward character like Green Lantern.

Aquaman has fallen off the face of the Earth since his nerd. I agree he's still pretty solid but he is by no means top 5.

You asked for 22 characters better than Green Lantern, you got the list. Where in his post does he say anything about Aquaman being Top 5? I really hope you don't think he was making his personal tier list. He most likely was listing characters off the top of his head because we all know Wowo is not Top 5 and Adam is definitely not outside of the Top 10.

Darkseid is whatever. It's 50/50s all day with trait and bunny hopping when you don't. You're gonna lose sometimes to it but does that mean he's top tier? Go over to his forums and you'll see people asking for neutral game buffs.

And now I think you literally just talking random ish because he said absolutely nothing about Darkseid being top tier. Are there 22 characters in the Top 10 in your world?

Dr Fate is probably being overrated right now. He's another character with maybe 2 all in character specialists who make him look broken and some really lopsided match ups but I think Fate loses a lot of lopsided match ups too. If can 7-3 Arrow then he can get 3-7 by a character like Darkseid with similar zoning speed and tons of ways around Dr Fate's tools.

Fate has a lot of lopsided match ups? List every single one of them please. They must be a 3-7 or worse, and considering you said a lot, I am expecting at least 10.

Wonder woman. Another favorite of mine probably because you see Yungmonster putting in work online and think that makes Wonderwoman amazing. Hell no. She has tons of weaknesses. It's just that people don't respect the hours these people put into making their mediocre characters look broken. The same thing happened with Sonicfox and Captain Cold.

She has weakness, but none of them are nearly as bad as Green Lantern's weakness which I feel like you probably don't understand what they are. Would you like to read my short essay on what those weaknesses are and why he actually does sucks? I feel you would benefit from it.

 

[StarBuzz300]

-2231 should be +2
-air dash when trait is active
-less gaps, 2231 (nobody on a casual level is backdashing that btw) b1 3 and b1 2
-small damage buff

For starters...

Like the air dash with trait idea

 

[DubiousShenron]

Just make the frames on (bf2) Bowled Over acceptable, that's a start. Currently -30 on block and -6 on hit.

 

[jharris]

hes low tier for sure, but ive mainly dropped him just because he is so boring. everything from his dialogue, to animations is just lifeless.

 

[ChatterBox]

He reminds me too much of mkx Kenshi for me to deal with him anymore. Terrible back dash, "space control" with gigantic holes that justify his bad frames up close, a complete lack of safety on special moves, negative.on.hit.specials! and fake pressure that no opponents lab to show in tournament because he's not good enough to lab against.

It's a bummer because he's so close to being fine, which is all I need.

 

[DubiousShenron]

He reminds me too much of mkx Kenshi for me to deal with him anymore. Terrible back dash, "space control" with gigantic holes that justify his bad frames up close, a complete lack of safety on special moves, negative.on.hit.specials! and fake pressure that no opponents lab to show in tournament because he's not good enough to lab against.

It's a bummer because he's so close to being fine, which is all I need.

You summed him up perfectly. Throw in poor risk/reward and that's Hal.

 

[gitblame]

Woah. Let's not get carried away. His holes are not that big and definetly he's better than MKX Kenshi (pre october patch). It sucks that B13 and B12 have gaps but to be honest you have to be playing really predictable to be punished for doing those strings. B13 gap is definetly too small to be exposed just like that. You need to be really ready to backdash that string. Saying about his terrible frames upclose is huge overstatement as well. Of couse he's not Black Adam but we can manage. And his jump atacks are awesome.

Backdash is terrible, tho. Like, what the hell is that?