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Green Lantern Post Stream Talk (Nov Balance Patch)

gitblame

Noob
Woah. Let's not get carried away. His holes are not that big and definetly he's better than MKX Kenshi (pre october patch). It sucks that B13 and B12 have gaps but to be honest you have to be playing really predictable to be punished for doing those strings. B13 gap is definetly too small to be exposed just like that. You need to be really ready to backdash that string. Saying about his terrible frames upclose is huge overstatement as well. Of couse he's not Black Adam but we can manage. And his jump atacks are awesome.

Backdash is terrible, tho. Like, what the hell is that?
 

dc1902

Noob
Yes he kinda does. I have a nice little essay typed up about why he sucks if you would like to take a read. I have already had one player who also said GL didn't suck discuss him with me for an hour, and he switched his opinion after I educated him about the character, and now realizes he is nowhere near as strong as he thought he was. I am prepared to discuss with more players.
Thank you,that would be nice. I love good reading material. :)
 

dc1902

Noob
I gotchu. Here are 22 characters better than Lantern:

1. Supergirl
2. Superman
3. Batman
4. Aquaman
5. Wonder Woman
6. Flash
7. Scarecrow
8. Atrocitus
9. Red Hood
10. Firestorm
11. Dr. Fate
12. Black Adam
13. Green Arrow
14. Starfire
15. Darkseid
16. Bane
17. Black Manta
18. Black Canary
19. Brainiac
20. Blue Beetle
21. Robin
22. Sub-Zero
blue beetle and sub zero......really?
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
Woah. Let's not get carried away. His holes are not that big and definetly he's better than MKX Kenshi (pre october patch). It sucks that B13 and B12 have gaps but to be honest you have to be playing really predictable to be punished for doing those strings. B13 gap is definetly too small to be exposed just like that. You need to be really ready to backdash that string. Saying about his terrible frames upclose is huge overstatement as well. Of couse he's not Black Adam but we can manage. And his jump atacks are awesome.

Backdash is terrible, tho. Like, what the hell is that?
I'm glad I'm not alone on the back dash haha

The thing he has over Kenshi is that his gameplan is contrary to the entire game system he has to play in. His frames are bad up close though, what's the startup on b2? d1? any special move on block? What's with that hitbox on b3? on f3? Why isn't the last hit of 123 a mid?

I agree that b13 gap isn't huge, because as I said no one labs it. Same with 2231, no one labs against it. I don't think he's mk9 jade or anything but he just isn't on the same level as everyone else and I'm scared of saddling myself with a character that has all the same problems again.

Just like Gross showed us for the past six months, if you know your matchups and really put the time in you can win a lot with him, but you're giving yourself the weakest tools to do so.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
Coming back to this thread after playing a ton of lantern. I have a couple of proposed changes that aren't specifically in mind to help GL with his matchups per say, but just to help him play his game better. Here's my thoughts:

Bowled over (bf2) - either reduce the recovery on whiff/block or make the actual projectile itself faster. It has the worst of both worlds right now, slow with poor recovery, making it something that almost isn't a projectile by my standards. They have 2 options keep the frames bad and make it travel faster or keep the speed the same and make the recovery acceptable.

Battery bombs (db2) - make the ex startup faster, doesn't need to be tremendously fast cause that's what the ex lantern blast is, but it should be faster than the normal bombs so it can cover space better -- giving it more utility.

2231 - make it +2 on block so green lantern doesn't have to hold buttons from every character on block. +2 would make it so every character has to hold his 7 frame d1 after 2231 if he executes a perfect d1 afterwards. I can see nrs keeping this string the same b/c it is very good.

Stand 2 - make it safe on block, should be a great staggerable mid currently it has no purpose and is punishable at double digits. It is currently great for staggering people and catching them off guard, it shouldn't be full combo punishable by the entire cast.

Suggestions from other GL players:

- wall has more invincibility, wall is safe in trait cause activating trait without meter on block is full combo punishable right now

- give lanterns might the sweet spot it needs. Currently you are not rewarded for spacing it out perfectly for people jumping so it will whiff in what should be the perfect sweet spot and you eat a full jump in combo
 
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Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
Let's get this straight, I don't think GL is bad nor is he bottom 5. However, his issues still stand because he hasn't really gotten any fixes or changes.

His health is the same as Superman, Wonderman and other chars at 1050. Everyone gets much more damage for 1 bar than we do, but we always need 1 bar to do damage. We're so meter dependent, even using meter for rolling or pushblocking could hurt us.

His zoning is atrocius. You dont have to take any of it and if you do, it's just a gimmick. His battery blast is - on hit, the startup of his overcharged lantern is 32f, his bowled over is - on hit and horrible on block.

From what I've heard, GL is supposed to be a zoner/space control character, but everyone else can do it better than us which is why most of the guys have switched over or have secondaries they mess around with more.

GL is not bad at all, but he is not as fair as some people make him out to be and it takes a lot more than just b1 and lantern's might to win games.
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
Let's get this straight, I don't think GL is bad nor is he bottom 5. However, his issues still stand because he hasn't really gotten any fixes or changes.

His health is the same as Superman, Wonderman and other chars at 1050. Everyone gets much more damage for 1 bar than we do, but we always need 1 bar to do damage. We're so meter dependent, even using meter for rolling or pushblocking could hurt us.

His zoning is atrocius. You dont have to take any of it and if you do, it's just a gimmick. His battery blast is - on hit, the startup of his overcharged lantern is 32f, his bowled over is - on hit and horrible on block.

From what I've heard, GL is supposed to be a zoner/space control character, but everyone else can do it better than us which is why most of the guys have switched over or have secondaries they mess around with more.

GL is not bad at all, but he is not as fair as some people make him out to be and it takes a lot more than just b1 and lantern's might to win games.
In the spirit of an actual discussion, why do you think he's not bottom 5? I agree he's not a bad character, but someone has to be low tier and he fits the bill.
 

Orochi

Scorpion Scrub
All he needs is his lift back to what it was in inj1 and 2231 to be +2 on block and he will be solid mid tier. He'll never be as good as the inj1 counterpart because rockets are gone for these trash zoning specials.

Either way I don't think nothing will happen to him it's pretty clear they're happy with how he is.
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
His exploding lantern and mb bf1 are amazing when you have a life lead imo. He's definitely not gonna zone someone out with even health and especially not at a deficit.
That I agree with. Once he gets up on life, those two tools shine. Even bowl and trait battery blast get better with a life lead. Just fucking rough getting that life lead at times.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
His exploding lantern and mb bf1 are amazing when you have a life lead imo. He's definitely not gonna zone someone out with even health and especially not at a deficit.
Yeah theyre good once you pretty much already have the win secured but theyre not going to save you.
 

SamZ

Noob
It's neat to see how opinions change as the game evolves. Some people were saying he was top 5 when the game came out. If anything, most of the top tiers have been "adjusted" down, he's stayed the same, and hes bottom 5 to some now.
 

Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
In the spirit of an actual discussion, why do you think he's not bottom 5? I agree he's not a bad character, but someone has to be low tier and he fits the bill.
I don't think he's bottom 5, but with the recent fixes he could probably be close. With all the mid tier guys getting buffs and GL not even getting any changes, he's definitely getting worse. I just don't want to be quick to jump the gun and say that he's bottom 5. Who would be your bottom 5 along with GL then?
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
I don't think he's bottom 5, but with the recent fixes he could probably be close. With all the mid tier guys getting buffs and GL not even getting any changes, he's definitely getting worse. I just don't want to be quick to jump the gun and say that he's bottom 5. Who would be your bottom 5 along with GL then?
nuh uh I asked first
 

Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
A few things that GL can excel in is his oki, his crossup potential and his amazing b1. However once you lab the matchup or get a lot of mu exp against him, it gets extremely hard since they know what to expect. That's all you really have to look out for against him which is why it makes GL players have to think out of their minds to win. He's a very honest and balanced character, but if NRS keeps on not giving him any fixes to go against everyone else, then he's just going to be bottom 5 like you say.
 
I think he is bottom 5. With most of the former bottom 5 characters getting buffs, he must be there.

Swamp Thing, Joker, Beetle, and Cyborg are all better than GL IMO. I think Swamp and Beetle are certainly better, but you could argue if Cyborg and Joker are. All of them were contenders for bottom 5 before the patch.

So who's the bottom 5 now? Grodd? Raiden? Deadshot? .... I can't think of anyone else. Maybe Joker still? If GL isn't bottom 5 he is bottom 6
 

Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
I mean, you still have sub, raiden, bane, grodd, joker/cc? I just don't want to call it in early man, but he is getting worse.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Bottom 5 is pretty meaningless on this game tbh. Most characters are good. I think Lantern is good he's just not great. Probably bottom 5 if you have to make a bottom 5, but what does that mean really? He wouldn't be bottom 5 on a game with actual bad characters(Grodd is arguably bad tho).

Joker isn't close to bottom 5. Imo his community on TYM just wants him to be bad. He's probably closer to top than the bottom.
 

Zero Gee

Need my craving of 50/50s
Bottom 5 is pretty meaningless on this game tbh. Most characters are good. I think Lantern is good he's just not great. Probably bottom 5 if you have to make a bottom 5, but what does that mean really? He wouldn't be bottom 5 on a game with actual bad characters(Grodd is arguably bad tho).

Joker isn't close to bottom 5. Imo his community on TYM just wants him to be bad. He's probably closer to top than the bottom.
I'd have to agree with you on that. He's not great but it's pretty hard to open people up with him unless they don't block low. Even his even matchups feel hard to win and he's just really too meter dependent to have everyone disrespect his plus frames for not so great damage.

Sub is easily better than GL imo
I'm going to scratch that idea out, but do you guys really think he's top 10?
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I don’t play enough tbh, but I could see top 10 Sub. He’s really good. There’s a lot of really good characters and Sub is one of them.