Gorilla Grodd General Discussion Thread

[dribirut]

The options to counter the interrupt are kinda ass though. Actually the only option is bounce cancel..
11 by itself is negative 7 and 11 sc is negative as fuck..

I just need that gap to be closed and he’s be complete..

The other sc plus strings just allow a d1... that’s worthless imo

 

[Cursa]

The options to counter the interrupt are kinda ass though. Actually the only option is bounce cancel..
11 by itself is negative 7 and 11 sc is negative as fuck..

I just need that gap to be closed and he’s be complete..

The other sc plus strings just allow a d1... that’s worthless imo

That's what conditioning is for

 

[dribirut]

Like the risk reward for him doing his other cancels are barely even in cross favor..

B2 sc

That's what conditioning is for

lol you’re not going to condition them with a bounce cancel that requires two bars to do..

 

[dribirut]

That's what conditioning is for

To me that’s honestly what separates him from being viable and not viable

 

[Cursa]

Like the risk reward for him doing his other cancels are barely even in cross favor..

B2 sc

lol you’re not going to condition them with a bounce cancel that requires two bars to do..

I'm talking about getting a D1 is what conditioning is for. You go for 100 D1's eventually your opponent is going to respect it and then you get grabs, more plus frames etc.

Also if my opponent is consistently trying to interrupt that gap I am going to spend those 2 bars 100% because that give me access to vortex.

I'm not saying it's a perfect world, and I don't think Grodd is all too great, but getting an opening as Grodd can lead to winning a round

 

[dribirut]

I'm talking about getting a D1 is what conditioning is for. You go for 100 D1's eventually your opponent is going to respect it and then you get grabs, more plus frames etc.

Also if my opponent is consistently trying to interrupt that gap I am going to spend those 2 bars 100% because that give me access to vortex.

I'm not saying it's a perfect world, and I don't think Grodd is all too great, but getting an opening as Grodd can lead to winning a round

Broo..cmon.. cmon.. be serious. You’re not going to condition anyone with a d1.. anytime I play any grodd and they do cancels on me I just d1 into special every single time. I could care less if he d1 me 10 times. That one time he doesn’t I get a combo

 

[Cursa]

Broo..cmon.. cmon.. be serious. You’re not going to condition anyone with a d1.. anytime I play any grodd and they do cancels on me I just d1 into special every single time. I could care less if he d1 me 10 times. That one time he doesn’t I get a combo

His D1 is +12 on hit, that guarantees him a B2 or S2 which is plus on blocked if SC'd. If he's in trait you are risking a lot to try and stop Grodd from doing a D1 since he gets a full combo off of it. You'll think twice about doing it next time after he does about 450 damage into a vortex because you tried to poke out of it.

That's conditioning. It's far from perfect but it's not like there's some foolproof answer to his actually plus cancels

 

[Belial]

11~sc is safe now, 112 is one his best strings atm, they can only interrupt by poke, so you can mix em up for free. if you think there will be poke just SC block and keep pressure. If you thing they keep blocking or try something else just end 112 for massive + frames (+11 now). btw mb b3 into the gap doesnt work as you can easily OS stampede cancel here.

btw I couldnt jail 112 SC into 1 but it should be possible.

 

[dribirut]

11~sc is safe now, 112 is one his best strings atm, they can only interrupt by poke, so you can mix em up for free. if you think there will be poke just SC block and keep pressure. If you thing they keep blocking or try something else just end 112 for massive + frames (+11 now). btw mb b3 into the gap doesnt work as you can easily OS stampede cancel here.

btw I couldnt jail 112 SC into 1 but it should be possible.

The thing iS that they don’t have to poke.. they can just do a fast normal and that works as well so you don’t actually keep pressure. Hell some fast mids can interrupt it as well

 

[Belial]

The thing iS that they don’t have to poke.. they can just do a fast normal and that works as well so you don’t actually keep pressure. Hell some fast mids can interrupt it as well

can you give more specific example? Most of the time there is a lot of risk involved. Many characters with fast 1 can interrupt yes, but you can cancel and punish such strings with d2 or do good old 11bbmb. Robin can try to DP but thats unsafe again etc etc. In a lot of MU 11 works wonders overall. Its biggest flaw was that it used to be unsafe on cancel but thats not the case anymore, on top of that advantage on block is ridiculous.

 

[dribirut]

can you give more specific example? Most of the time there is a lot of risk involved. Many characters with fast 1 can interrupt yes, but you can cancel and punish such strings with d2 or do good old 11bbmb. Robin can try to DP but thats unsafe again etc etc. In a lot of MU 11 works wonders overall. Its biggest flaw was that it used to be unsafe on cancel but thats not the case anymore, on top of that advantage on block is ridiculous.

I know exactly what can and can’t be done. I know every possible option and counter but that’s not my point.

My only point is that as it stands, grodd still seems weak/ bottom 5-10 and that tiny adjustment of getting rid of the gap would put him at a nice mid tier/viable placement imo

 

[Belial]

In my eyes Grodd is definitely VERY viable right now. Very likely he is top 10. His MU vs Aquaman has been also improved as Grodd neutral has been significantly buffed. Aqua is still bad MU, but Im more inclined to think its 4-6.

112 is great string, Idk why you would think otherwise. A lot of chars have worse stuff and still consider it good. Grodd 112 is pretty beastly in most MUs, getting rid of the gap would make his 112 absolutely insane +11 meter bulding string, as of now it would be over the top buff.

 

[Wigy]

In my eyes Grodd is definitely VERY viable right now. Very likely he is top 10. His MU vs Aquaman has been also improved as Grodd neutral has been significantly buffed. Aqua is still bad MU, but Im more inclined to think its 4-6.

112 is great string, Idk why you would think otherwise. A lot of chars have worse stuff and still consider it good. Grodd 112 is pretty beastly in most MUs, getting rid of the gap would make his 112 absolutely insane +11 meter bulding string, as of now it would be over the top buff.

Top 10, what now?!

Also does nobody else find the scarecrow matchup horrible as well?

 

[Belial]

Also does nobody else find the scarecrow matchup horrible as well?

Most MU that used to be bad are now way better mostly due to imrpoved mobility of Grodd. If you have solid neutral you have very good odds vs even the most far-reaching enemies, since Grodd normals are already pretty sick as they are, it is very easy to play footsies now. Its not WW step back still but then again grodd normals are better. Could be #1 char for footsies now, idk

Yeah I think he is now very, very strong, with imrpoved vortex off b2 and better fame data. Like d2 SC safe launcher, f2 safe plus launcher (makes his oki insane really), most cancels are now pretty sick, huge mobility buff overall(helps everywhere), also new SC animation is actually a buff both in neutral (easier to bait stuff) and in pressure (closer on hit and block , better pressure and easy to punish backdashes now). I just dont see any weakness left for Grodd. He still gets to keep one of the best WKA in the game, tons of damage and resets. Idk the char is now completely insane

 

[PND OmegaK]

Grodd could be top 10. There's a lot of characters in this game and a lot of unexplored matchups.

I think Grodd loses to Black Adam, Starfire and Batman, and with those being 3 of the most common characters in the meta It prevents Grodd from really shining.

 

[Wigy]

In the scarecrow matchup I'm finding that I do cancel pressures and he just blocks and then I get trait chip. I use grabs to force him to unblock which is fine but then his Oki off grab Is limited after a grab.

Outside d1 range scarecrow has the neutral advantage and can lock you out with f2 and j2's.

Grodd has no answer to his b3 like at all.

You can bait with sc but then u might get tagged with f2.

J3 oki crossup is a huge pain in the ass.

scarecrows footsies are good enough to compete with grodd which kind of messes his game. I don't see how it can't be loosing.

 

[dribirut]

In the scarecrow matchup I'm finding that I do cancel pressures and he just blocks and then I get trait chip. I use grabs to force him to unblock which is fine but then his Oki off grab Is limited after a grab.

Outside d1 range scarecrow has the neutral advantage and can lock you out with f2 and j2's.

Grodd has no answer to his b3 like at all.

You can bait with sc but then u might get tagged with f2.

J3 oki crossup is a huge pain in the ass.

scarecrows footsies are good enough to compete with grodd which kind of messes his game. I don't see how it can't be loosing.

A good strategy to use against sc is when you’re walking back outside of footsies range. Every now and then, take a big step forward. 9/10 a sc player will jump at that range. The step forward will allow for a clean d2..

It really makes them stop and think before jumping. The worst thing you can do against sc imo is just keep walking back.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

i wouldnt put him top 10, but top 15 or so now. I think he is going to be mid tier or so now. His damage output and pressure are great but his hard matchups are still there. Most of his bad MUs are because of the overall design of the character not something a couple of buffs would fix.

I really feel like this version of him is super solid now though. Most of the top tier dont have any hard loss matchups, they just differ on gameplan and damage output. Grodd has some really hard counterpicks that also happen to be pretty popular and easy to play. Without that grodd will stay mid tier.

He is oficcially top 8 viable though, lego help just won a set in northern arena top 8 as grodd vs slp as leonardo/green arrow. That dude has a serious grodd.

 

[Skedar70]

Like the risk reward for him doing his other cancels are barely even in cross favor..

B2 sc

lol you’re not going to condition them with a bounce cancel that requires two bars to do..

Cursa is right here. This is how you use his stampede cancel pressure in order to open the opponent up. You get them to respect your d1 and then you go for other options(throws, other strings, shimmy, lows, overheads, whiff punishes etc). You also don't need to use two bars for them to respect your cancel pressure you can also just cancel from a b2 and go for a regular mb b3/f3 that will catch them if they try to poke out and you will get a full combo.

Removing the gap in 112 is too much because that string is extremely plus when you cancel and it costs nothing to do so.

 

[Skedar70]

In the scarecrow matchup I'm finding that I do cancel pressures and he just blocks and then I get trait chip. I use grabs to force him to unblock which is fine but then his Oki off grab Is limited after a grab.

Outside d1 range scarecrow has the neutral advantage and can lock you out with f2 and j2's.

Grodd has no answer to his b3 like at all.

You can bait with sc but then u might get tagged with f2.

J3 oki crossup is a huge pain in the ass.

scarecrows footsies are good enough to compete with grodd which kind of messes his game. I don't see how it can't be loosing.

SC is a 5/5. I have no idea what you mean by "Oki off grab is limited after grab" Grodd has a throw loop.

In the neutral you can go for Stampede cancel in order to build meter. If SC jumps at you you can meter burn him and catch him mid air. if he uses f2 you can mb b3 and combo him.

What is your issue with b3? block it and move back.

j3 oki is a bitch you are right but every character suffers from this when facing sc its not like only Grodd has to guess and hold sc j3.

 

[Cursa]

Yea 112 gap removal will lead to a subsequent nerf of his plus frames off of it.

There's a reason most plus on block strings in the game have a gap

 

[dribirut]

Cursa is right here. This is how you use his stampede cancel pressure in order to open the opponent up. You get them to respect your d1 and then you go for other options(throws, other strings, shimmy, lows, overheads, whiff punishes etc). You also don't need to use two bars for them to respect your cancel pressure you can also just cancel from a b2 and go for a regular mb b3/f3 that will catch them if they try to poke out and you will get a full combo.

Removing the gap in 112 is too much because that string is extremely plus when you cancel and it costs nothing to do so.

Again, I’m not disputing that’s what cursa says in what you’re supposed to do. That’s not my point whatsoever..

Lol how would removing gap be “op”.. his only “50/50” would be grab or no grab..

Other characters have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger tools than a standing 10 frame jab string with weak range that doesn’t even move you forward. That leads into a grab or no grab scenario..

There’s a reason good players like goonie are still getting blown up by other good players and no top player have picked him up..

It would definitely be a strong tool don’t get me wrong but faaaaar from op..

Again this is my opinion and not stating as fact..

 

[Cursa]

I think he's alright. He has decent counter zoning, S2 is actually a pretty strong mid that's decently fast, has pretty good range, is hit confirmable and grants a full combo. His stagger game is pretty good. Damage and vortex have always been good. Wakeup game is pretty good. D1 is the best in the game, pretty good anti airs.

His jump is still a little floaty. He's a big boi too so it's easy to hit him (Sounds dumb but it's there). Has some pretty bad MU's still. Can be a little hard to get his vortex shit started. I have severe doubts about top 10.

I am just saying if they get rid of the 112 gap you can be 100% sure that his plus frames off it will also go, unless NRS decides to just change their mind on how plus strings work in the game. I can't think of an example of a truly gapless plus on block string that doesn't require setup or meter

 

[Skedar70]

Grodd is fine and he has been for a while. People continue to downplay him so he has been getting the Bane treatment. I doubt they will change anything else about him except maybe if sonicfox picks him up. Then they will nerf him.

 

[Wigy]

Any tips for the j3 b2 leap loop thing

I can get it on some characters and others it always drops after the first.

Is it just mega tight? I feel like I have a mental block or something cause I used to be able to do it.