Gorilla Grodd General Discussion Thread

[Skedar70]

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks he didn't need buffs or at least fixes has clearly not played a top player that plays the mu correctly.

Go play foxy and try to get away with your 22/ 112 pressure. Try catching him off guard with a slow ass leap..

Yeah those gaps definitely need to go. Most people don't exploit them (not even most top players), but I can see how a player like foxy would neutralize Grodd to the ground. After watching his match with Theo at eleague he is the type of player who would exploit any gaps.

 

[Belial]

I think gaps are overrated. 112 doesnt even matter And 22 only few chars can take advantage of. Even 6fr pokes have to block 2 standing to interrupt and you have to expect it. W/o gaps his pressure would be too strong

 

[Belial]

utilizing leap cancels can significantly improve vortex damage
for example instead of mid leap 2 you can do mid leap cancel f21~MC that will give you significantly more damage
Also if some people react (which i still dont believe is true but just in case) to jump arc of c.leap and m.leap you can use c.leap 1+3 and c.leap cancel into basically anything (22~MC, b2~MC) to punish this for massive damage again

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

utilizing leap cancels can significantly improve vortex damage
for example instead of mid leap 2 you can do mid leap cancel f21~MC that will give you significantly more damage
Also if some people react (which i still dont believe is true but just in case) to jump arc of c.leap and m.leap you can use c.leap 1+3 and c.leap cancel into basically anything (22~MC, b2~MC) to punish this for massive damage again

HEY MAN. I THINK WE GOT OFF ON THE WRONG FOOT, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF I DID OR SAID ANYTHING TO HURT YOU? ANYWAYS IM JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO WHAT UR SAYING HERE. DO U THINKU CAN UPLOAD A VIDEO SHOWING THIS?

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

while proper use of leap cancelling would increase damage and utility he is still the worst in the game because he needs super accurate gimmics simply to compete with characters who have solid strings and built in safety. I get the idea that a input perfect grodd might be op, but that is a literal impossibility. Anyone who has the input skill to play like that would literally never pick up grodd in tournament. leave the gap in 22(gap) 3 but take out the one in 22 and 112. or at least reduce it so you cant straight up d2 the thing, make it so they have to backdash it or something.

On top of all that, his f3 is hella slow and has the worst range ive seen in a move period. They need to make it hit twice or something to account for its atrocious frames and range. it reaches further above his head than it does in front of him.

And b1grab is inherently busted. terrible frames, little range, and if the opponent is blocking high(meaning walking away) the grab wiffs ON THE PEOPLE WHO WERE BLOCKING WRONG. You cant even do mb f3 on it unless its in the corner because it pushes them away so far. That b1 needs to like vacuum the opponent in like standing 3 does.

 

[Wigy]

B1 as it stands only seems like a tool to open up bad players who cant react in 24 frames.

Essentially no point in it even being a low as you cant use it outside of combos or vortex and the vortex is a total gimmick.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

while proper use of leap cancelling would increase damage and utility he is still the worst in the game because he needs super accurate gimmics simply to compete with characters who have solid strings and built in safety. I get the idea that a input perfect grodd might be op, but that is a literal impossibility. Anyone who has the input skill to play like that would literally never pick up grodd in tournament. leave the gap in 22(gap) 3 but take out the one in 22 and 112. or at least reduce it so you cant straight up d2 the thing, make it so they have to backdash it or something.

On top of all that, his f3 is hella slow and has the worst range ive seen in a move period. They need to make it hit twice or something to account for its atrocious frames and range. it reaches further above his head than it does in front of him.

And b1grab is inherently busted. terrible frames, little range, and if the opponent is blocking high(meaning walking away) the grab wiffs ON THE PEOPLE WHO WERE BLOCKING WRONG. You cant even do mb f3 on it unless its in the corner because it pushes them away so far. That b1 needs to like vacuum the opponent in like standing 3 does.

GRODD IS DEF NOT WORST IN GAME. THATS RAIDEN.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

B1 as it stands only seems like a tool to open up bad players who cant react in 24 frames.

Essentially no point in it even being a low as you cant use it outside of combos or vortex and the vortex is a total gimmick.

I feel like the b1 is supposed to be for stampede cancel pressure, but it is too slow to make safe and is a pain in the ass to convert off of, if that's even possible. This could all be fixed by giving grodd a decent f3. Just replace it with the animation for primitive pound. He doesnt need a lot to be pretty scary. B1 would still be a gimmick but his whole moveset makes you want to block low, having a f3 that reached out past his nuts maybe 4 or so frames faster and he is terrifying.

I've been playing cheetah for the last couple of days and its like grodd on easy mode. its so weird to be able to hit f3 and like move foreward, and break armor. its redicc

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

I feel like the b1 is supposed to be for stampede cancel pressure, but it is too slow to make safe and is a pain in the ass to convert off of, if that's even possible. This could all be fixed by giving grodd a decent f3. Just replace it with the animation for primitive pound. He doesnt need a lot to be pretty scary. B1 would still be a gimmick but his whole moveset makes you want to block low, having a f3 that reached out past his nuts maybe 4 or so frames faster and he is terrifying.

I've been playing cheetah for the last couple of days and its like grodd on easy mode. its so weird to be able to hit f3 and like move foreward, and break armor. its redicc

B1 IS GUARANTEED OFF A J2 AND IS +4/+5 WHEN CANCELLED SO IDK WHAT UR COMPLAINING ABOUT. UR LACK OF MIX??? GRODD IS NOT A MIX CHARACTER, HES A PRESSURE ONE.

 

[Belial]

I dont think Grodd is worst in the game, just hardest. If executed well and if you play a year in the game he could very well get high or even top tier especially considering upcoming patches. the problem is that NRS games life span dont last that long and its a poor investment for pro players.

 

[ChoseDeath]

I dont think Grodd is worst in the game, just hardest. If executed well and if you play a year in the game he could very well get high or even top tier especially considering upcoming patches. the problem is that NRS games life span dont last that long and its a poor investment for pro players.

Excellent points. Playing this game casually is way different. When I nail my cancels, and hit a few resets, I feel like a million bucks! But if I miss them and it costs me a game, big whoop. It's just a game. I want to win, but it's all in good fun. Let me miss a top 8 or not get out of pools due to execution errors? Whole other game.

I was watching a set on K and M's channel between OmegaK and Irish Mantis and one of the brothers remarked that Omega has execution errors in tournament (while he is hitting cancel after cancel mind you), and I'm thinking "well fucking duh! You try it." Which I feel just proves your point.

 

[Wigy]

B1 IS GUARANTEED OFF A J2 AND IS +4/+5 WHEN CANCELLED SO IDK WHAT UR COMPLAINING ABOUT. UR LACK OF MIX??? GRODD IS NOT A MIX CHARACTER, HES A PRESSURE ONE.

If you somehow land a j2 by some miracle. It just doesnt seem that useful?

Either way, theres still no point in it even being a low cause of how reactable the mix is? In which case why is it 24 frames?

Also its mega unreliable midscreen on hit.

I think if they were going to give grodd some quality of life buffs later in the game that string could use some changes.

 

[The chosen puddle]

I dont think Grodd is worst in the game, just hardest. If executed well and if you play a year in the game he could very well get high or even top tier especially considering upcoming patches. the problem is that NRS games life span dont last that long and its a poor investment for pro players.

This times 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[PND OmegaK]

Even with perfect execution Grodd has too many poor matchups to be top tier.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

B1 IS GUARANTEED OFF A J2 AND IS +4/+5 WHEN CANCELLED SO IDK WHAT UR COMPLAINING ABOUT. UR LACK OF MIX??? GRODD IS NOT A MIX CHARACTER, HES A PRESSURE ONE.

Its not enough mix. A pressure character means nothing with no mix, you just block until he messes up and punish. You have to have some degree of mix, or you cannot open people up. I feel like grodd is designed to be all l/r/grab mix rather than low/overhead/grab but he still needs some sort of half decent overhead to make any mix work. Im not hating, i just think if grodd got a better f3 he would be a much stronger character. As it stands his f3 is more of an anticrossup than an overhead.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

Like omegak said, he will likely never be top tier, even with perfect execution. That doesn't bother me, i dont really care for being high tier, upper mid might be achievable though. Also in general we are talking tournament mode. As he stands grodd would have a damn hard time winning any match in a top 8, and anyone who can play grodd at that level would be doing themselves a favor to play an easier/safer character. Even Oakiess was asking if his followers would hate on him for developing a pocket supergirl to cover counterpickers.

 

[Skedar70]

Ok so who are his really bad mu? Wonder Woman, Robin, Dr Fate? Who else?

 

[PND OmegaK]

Wonder woman is the only one that I think is 3-7 or possibly even 2-8.

But other characters I think Grodd struggles with:
Robin - Better neutral, punishes stampede free for big dammy, interrupting mb sword flip is big risk small reward for Grodd.

Joker - Teeth make it incredibly hard to approach him and his setplay is absurd. Saving grace was he had no good wake-up but lol patch. Not awful but bad.

Batman - I just fucking hate this potato ass character, j2 nerf made no difference cause grodds hitbox is huge and he still pretty much always has a bat. Our projectile immunity is great in the MU but its far too hard to get out and doesn't last long enough to be massively effective and can easily be stalled out.

Cheetah - Grodd struggles to deal with her leap and constantly has to play at her pace, this one is potentially not bad but I can't say I look forward to fighting her.

Supergirl - yeah

Catwoman - yeah

Black Adam - Very good at taking advantage of how unsafe Grodd is, I don't hate this matchup because it's kinda fun even though it's difficult.

The Flash - He is basically just a much better version of Grodd, j1 is very difficult to deal with and Grodd can't nj out b22 pressure.

MUs that I'm too stubborn to admit are bad but probably are (especially post patch): Atro, Blue Beetle, Dr Fate, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Harley, Scarecrow

MUs I think we win: Darkseid, Deadshot, Black Canary

The rest of the cast are matchups that are even or I don't play enough.

I go through phases of up playing and down playing Grodd so maybe I'm just in a downplaying phase cause I'm tired of all the dumb shit in this game

Also latest patch was pretty bad for us since a lot of our even or winning MUs got buffed. Batman nerf wasn't significant in the Grodd MU apart from the meter build change, Deadshot nerf was welcome but Grodd handled him well anyway, and I have no idea about the Red Hood matchup outside of ranked.

 

[Belial]

Its not really just execution. Mostly footsies and MU knowledge that isnt available at this stage of the game. If you look from long perspective Grodd tools are really good if you can react to everything and never fall to "dumb shit". If you have very good footsies etc. Those are things that only come in the later stages of the game. NRS games are not built to last, thats why Grodd is unlikely to see high level play and high placings. But I dont agree with your MU evaluations.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

i feel like wowo is the worst matchup for grodd. Maybe worst matchup in the game. Everywhere he has to be, she covers extremely well with fast mid special projectiles that grodd cannot trait out of. plus she has better buttons. If you play grodd and beat a wowo player they either didn't know the matchup or you just straitght up out played them.

i feel like blue beetle is a terrible matchup too but only if their trait use is on point.

dr fate isnt that bad. Immunity stops every projectile except ankh, breaks like 4 of his strings, and leap3/j3 hits behind wakeup ankh. I don't know if i would call it a winning matchup though.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

FUNNY I DONT FIND THE WOWO MU TO BE BAD AT ALL. DO U HAVE TO PLAY VERY PATIENT YA, BUT DEF NOT 7-3. IMO HIS TOUGHEST MU'S ARE AQUAMAN, ATROS AND ADAM. THE ONLY MU I CAN SAY FOR SURE HE WINS IS VS SUB ZERO

 

[Skedar70]

FUNNY I DONT FIND THE WOWO MU TO BE BAD AT ALL. DO U HAVE TO PLAY VERY PATIENT YA, BUT DEF NOT 7-3. IMO HIS TOUGHEST MU'S ARE AQUAMAN, ATROS AND ADAM. THE ONLY MU I CAN SAY FOR SURE HE WINS IS VS SUB ZERO

I think Aquaman is no longer a losing MU. The nerf to tentacle strike just makes approaching him patiently more easy since he no longer does the same damage. His trait makes him drop out of our combos but now you can just go into stampede pressure and he takes full damage while being traited. I think Atrocitus is a winning MU for Grodd since his trait cancels out Dex-starr and what is atro without dex-starr. I don't struggle against Black Adam either and his lack of wake up forces him to hold Grodd pressure on oki.

Wonder woman is terrible you just can't get near her. She has this specific range where she easily punishes any leap attempt with her d2 She outrages grodd with her back 2 she can IAS you constantly and she can ji3 at you for free and she gets away from anything you try to do with her solid back dash.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

I think Aquaman is no longer a losing MU. The nerf to tentacle strike just makes approaching him patiently more easy since he no longer does the same damage. His trait makes him drop out of our combos but now you can just go into stampede pressure and he takes full damage while being traited. I think Atrocitus is a winning MU for Grodd since his trait cancels out Dex-starr and what is atro without dex-starr. I don't struggle against Black Adam either and his lack of wake up forces him to hold Grodd pressure on oki.

Wonder woman is terrible you just can't get near her. She has this specific range where she easily punishes any leap attempt with her d2 She outrages grodd with her back 2 she can IAS you constantly and she can ji3 at you for free and she gets away from anything you try to do with her solid back dash.

I KEEP SEEING PEOPLE SAYING WHAT IS ATROCITUS WITHOUT DEX. WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?? ATROS HAS SOME OF THE BEST NORMALS IN THE GAME AND A VERY STRONG NEUTRAL. DEX IS JUST THE CHERRY ON TOP.

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

atrocitus is a bad mu, but grodd does better than most people. I think this is how you haveto judge grodd matchups. For example, the mu v atrocitus isn't very goodfor groddbecause his buttons are better than grodds, and bloodnado is not a projectile that we can immunize against. Grodd pretty much neutralizes dexstarr if you get to activate at about the same time that atro does. He still dominates in the neutral, so its not a positive matchup but i feel like its pretty good as far as atrocitus's matchups go.

 

[SamZ]

Grodd is really fun. What does he need to be competitive though? Is he already competitive?