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Calling all Scorpion experts, please respond!

Right, so I've been including the use of Scorpion's f2 1 4 (the one where he slashes twice with his swords and then ends with a flip-kick for those who don't recall this string) as part of my pressure game and I saw it gives good spacing after it hits on block. Does this make for sufficient pushback and a nice edge to Scorpion's game in case we lose faith in his pressure? What are your thoughts on this?

Do note that this string isn't completely safe, as there are some specials - such as Reptile's Elbow Dash - that can punish Scorpion.
what exactly are u using it for? do u hit confirm it into a teleport? if that is the case it might be useful. But how do youplan on connecting the first hit? after a jump in punch?
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
RedRaptor10 has been using it to some success, but the only time you can effectively use it (thanks to its horrendous startup) is after ji.P, which would happen after a Teleport hits a standing opponent. This introduces some more questions concerning viability, as why would you waste time doing this instead of 1,1,1 pressure, B2/F4xSpear first hit mix-ups, 2,1+2xxTeleport, 2,1+2xxTakedown, and 2xxTakedown safe mix-up, or even Demon Fire for free damage.

If it had as much advantage on block as Ermac's F2, however, one could easily use this to set-up checks much like how Ermac can check with TKP/TKS after F2 for most characters.

*PS: Not bashing TC or Red; exploration is always g o o d ^_^

EDIT: "some success" as in I rarely get to see him play :(
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
Calling all Scorpion experts, please respond!

Right, so I've been including the use of Scorpion's f2 1 4 (the one where he slashes twice with his swords and then ends with a flip-kick for those who don't recall this string) as part of my pressure game and I saw it gives good spacing after it hits on block. Does this make for sufficient pushback and a nice edge to Scorpion's game in case we lose faith in his pressure? What are your thoughts on this?

Do note that this string isn't completely safe, as there are some specials - such as Reptile's Elbow Dash - that can punish Scorpion.
Scorpion's fire backflip is -15 on block, the same as Reptiles elbow dash. Thus it is full combo punishable (I've been full combo punished for using it).
 

ryublaze

Noob
I'm not that good with Scorpion but I like to play a safe Scorpion so usually after f2, 1, teleport I do f2, 1, 4. If the opponent jumps in after that then you can catch him with a d1 anti-air. Also if f2, 1 ,4 hits then the opponent is knocked fullscreen, which is where I want them to be for my playstyle.

I'm not sure but I think 1, 1, 1 and d4 give decent pushback on block and they are safe. Not as much pushback as f2, 1, 4 though.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
Can anyone share some advice on how to land this consistently? I can't seem to tame the negative edge in my favor; been driving me nuts! I'd love to start incorporating d1~spear into my gameplay on a regular basis.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
For AA? Go with d1db3 instead: more damage, and easier to work with. To practice the timing, try landing d1db4 on the practice dummy til you cancel the d1.

typed using OSK and a mouse.
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
I'm pretty sure he means in the double teleport combos, after the second teleport you D1~Spear.
Personally I press D+B+1 twice.

Good advice is to practice this out of combo a few times just to get your cancel timing down.
Then during the combo, make sure you watch the TV, and when you see Scorpion land from the second teleport, press D+B+1 twice.
 
Can anyone share some advice on how to land this consistently? I can't seem to tame the negative edge in my favor; been driving me nuts! I'd love to start incorporating d1~spear into my gameplay on a regular basis.
You can also do D1 teleport 11 spear, standing 1 teleport 11 spear, JIP 1 dash 1 teleport 11 spear, he has tons of Anti air haha its awesome!
 

ryublaze

Noob
Earlier I've been inputting it like how it is supposed to (D1, B, B, 1) and I was landing it consistently. You can also press it like D1, B, B1. One way to practice this (and his anti air D1) is to set the AI to "Jump", do D1, Teleport, dash, 2, Teleport, D1, B, B1, vortex.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
I'm pretty sure he means in the double teleport combos, after the second teleport you D1~Spear.
Personally I press D+B+1 twice.

Good advice is to practice this out of combo a few times just to get your cancel timing down.
Then during the combo, make sure you watch the TV, and when you see Scorpion land from the second teleport, press D+B+1 twice.
Hadn't thought of trying D+B+1 twice, thanks for that suggestion; should help. It's weird, that's the ONLY issue I have with him but it's crucial for big damage.
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
So... why doesn't this work? I connect with the f 43 spear after doing a spear earlier in the combo and no b2 yet they just lay there and the f4 or b2 miss as they're on the ground. I've seen it work before, why doesn't it now?
 

ryublaze

Noob
First of all, I would like to say that this is very matchup dependent. This is just something I've been experimenting with and has won me a few matches online. Basically what you do is after an Air Throw, dash backwards halfway and throw a Spear. If the opponent tries to jump out or if he ducks too late (which is a mistake in the video), he'll be caught into another 30%+ combo. If it gets blocked (high or low), you get 1% chip damage and you're most likely safe since it's fullscreen. However, there are instances where the opponent can stay on the ground, get back up and punish with a teleport. Once your opponent knows their safest option is to stay still, you can mix it up with Hellfire for an additional 7% damage (the timing for this is to make a full backwards dash then use Hellfire).

Tech Rolling: For those who don't know, the opponent can't tech roll after Air Throw, but what he can do is stay on the ground for a split second then press a button to tech roll (like the Back button). This tech roll is different because the opponent can't use a wake-up attack after it. If the opponent does this kind of tech roll, the Spear does whiff and the opponent recovers just a little bit faster than Scorpion, but since it's fullscreen you should still be able to block in time.

The only problem with this is wake-up attacks, and even then, the Spear can snuff out some wake-ups. It doesn't work too well against armored wake-ups. I doubt an opponent will be willing to use an armored wake-up after an Air Throw anyways (unless the opponent can react to Spear). If the opponent doesn't armor the wake-up, then I'm pretty sure Spear will beat moves like Reptile's Elbow Dash. It's not something you should do every time, so sometimes you can block instead of using Spear and punish wake-up attacks.


Works good against:
Scorpion, Ermac, Kitana, Sektor, Sonya, Shang Tsung, Kenshi

Doesn't work good against:
Kung Lao, Mileena, Cyrax, Smoke, Kabal, Raiden, Skarlet, Rain, Freddy Krueger

You can still do it against every other character since their wake-up attacks don't lead to full combos.

And before I get replies like "Why risk eating a wake-up attack?" or "Why not use Vortex/Void?" well I just think this is another one of Scorpion's "risks". Scorpion can't be punished by full combo (besides the characters it doesn't work good against) and the opponent will have to use meter so IMO the reward is higher than the risk, a.k.a. low risk high reward. If you do use it against characters like Kung Lao, it becomes high risk high reward.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
I've experimenting with this as well but also finding alternative ways to punish that which avoids Spear. And it turns out, B2 will catch a lot of armored EN specials such as Mileena's Roll, Scorpion's Takedown, Nightwolf's Shoulder, even Kabal's Nomad Dash etc. if timed and spaced right.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
I usually just teleport to reverse inputs on wakeup and apply pressure.
Problem with that is they can just block the Teleport (or possibly AA poke you out of both regular and EN) and punish you. With this, you're at a safe distance for a good portion of the cast, you get either meter and chip from a blocked special, or you get a whole 'nother combo.

At the very least, it gives us a new tool in the Kitana matchup since this works against her wake-ups so well.
 

ryublaze

Noob
Problem with that is they can just block the Teleport (or possibly AA poke you out of both regular and EN) and punish you. With this, you're at a safe distance for a good portion of the cast, you get either meter and chip from a blocked special, or you get a whole 'nother combo.

At the very least, it gives us a new tool in the Kitana matchup since this works against her wake-ups so well.
Actually Scorpion teleports safely before the opponent can stand up and block. However, if the opponent crouch blocks, Scorpion's teleport will get blocked (I just tested).
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
That vid was really good. I like the fact you showed what characters its good against and what characters its not. Thanks for info dude.
 

ryublaze

Noob
Thanks for the compliments...really surprising lol.

I'd like to add that a smart opponent would probably just block or stay on the ground every time...so I guess mix it up with Hellfire or something? Idk.
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
Thanks for the compliments...really surprising lol.

I'd like to add that a smart opponent would probably just block or stay on the ground every time...so I guess mix it up with Hellfire or something? Idk.
I'm confused. You have a Reptile avatar, but you play as Scorpion...
Reptile is the only guest character Nintendo was able to sneak into the game after all.