Frost General Discussion

[Xzyj]

I've been trying to get better at Flawless block (Fb)~U2 and I get 290 dmg with Liu Kang for a total of 3 bars (1 def, 2 att)

So I've been trying to do the same with Frost only to realize you might as well not waste the bars doing an U2 after a Fb because her dmg is sub-par, and it has a high chance of dropping since it's a tight link.
I HOPE someone here has found something better but thus far, using some inspiration from @Xzyj, I got this after a flawless block:

U2 > quick dash > B3~DB4(amp) > dash > JiK > D2

Congrats, you used a total of 3 bars (1 def, 2 att) and got a mind blowing 219 dmg......but it probably dropped anyway so at least you looked cool doing the U2

i think you can do 13~drill as an ender instead of D2 for more damage, but ye she's not geras

 

[JSF]

I honestly thought cassie was here worst match up but I'm thinking Jaqui takes the cake. I can't press any buttons on her and she easily steals her turn back from frost once you start doubting if you should poke or tech.

Jacqui is really rough since her being -2 means nothing when she has a 9f mid and 7f d3 lol but since we outrange her and have the zoning option she has to respect i cant call it worst. her worst matchup is Scorpion or Cassie imo. Against Jacqui you kinda have to block until she goes for something unsafe or at least more negative. she doesnt have low/oh mixes so just wait for the throw. its definitely a bad MU tho

 

[Kindred]

i think you can do 13~drill as an ender instead of D2 for more damage, but ye she's not geras

Works seldomly because by the time they freeze, they are very low to the ground
I sure wish we had an easy 310 KB that just requires the opponent to stand block........

 

[Xzyj]

Works seldomly because by the time they freeze, they are very low to the ground
I sure wish we had an easy 310 KB that just requires the opponent to stand block........

you have 2 of those... kind of

 

[Kindred]

you have 2 of those... kind of

The grabs? In all my time of playing frost I never landed 2 in a match lol But Ive seen geras use 2-3 in a round lol

 

[Wigy]

It's weird. With the frame data and lack of safety it's like frost was designed to have a low special.

She has all these unsafe overhead enders which bring absolutely no mix and are like -18 on block.

Like if you have a string that's unsafe slow startup and has gaps it has to bring more to the table

B32d1 if it catches jumping will not capture them and will get you blown up on whiff. Has a pokeable and flawless blockable gap and ends unsafe.

I know you can't compare characters but I just don't think b22 and her zoning even nearly justifies how ass all her strings are.

I feel if 90% of your normal useage isn't d4 b22 and 13 you're playing her wrong and none of those tools are particularly amazing.

 

[JSF]

It's weird. With the frame data and lack of safety it's like frost was designed to have a low special.

She has all these unsafe overhead enders which bring absolutely no mix and are like -18 on block.

Like if you have a string that's unsafe slow startup and has gaps it has to bring more to the table

B32d1 if it catches jumping will not capture them and will get you blown up on whiff. Has a pokeable and flawless blockable gap and ends unsafe.

I know you can't compare characters but I just don't think b22 and her zoning even nearly justifies how ass all her strings are.

I feel if 90% of your normal useage isn't d4 b22 and 13 you're playing her wrong and none of those tools are particularly amazing.

You are very correct. When i play frost 80% of my game is b22 but its so slow that jump happy players get away free, but thats when i use b1 but thats slow too, d4 is cool but they get pushed back on hit and can just jump and boom no more pressure. its really an uphill battle against anyone which is why i say she's the worst in the game.

 

[Kindred]

You are very correct. When i play frost 80% of my game is b22 but its so slow that jump happy players get away free, but thats when i use b1 but thats slow too, d4 is cool but they get pushed back on hit and can just jump and boom no more pressure. its really an uphill battle against anyone which is why i say she's the worst in the game.

When playing against someone decent, it's an uphill battle and the games are sooooo fucking slow because you can't open ppl up for shit and it's basically grabs or just waiting for your opponent to lose patience and try to whiff punish.
It's agonizingly slow.
Then it becomes agonizingly slow and angering when your opponent starts to flawless block your B22 and you're forced to do gimmicky stuff like B2~Arc projectile or B2~grab or B2~might-as-well-just-fuck-myself-for-choosing-this-character

 

[Wigy]

You are very correct. When i play frost 80% of my game is b22 but its so slow that jump happy players get away free, but thats when i use b1 but thats slow too, d4 is cool but they get pushed back on hit and can just jump and boom no more pressure. its really an uphill battle against anyone which is why i say she's the worst in the game.

Yeah the jumping back after d4 on hit is annoying. D4 grenade is good for that.

In general. Grenade a lot so they're scared to jump. But can't do it in matchups where they have a good zoning check. So they're kinda free to just jump

She's got the foundations for a good character and has some individual tools, she just needs some actual strings to threaten with that don't revolve around just entirely forcing mistakes.

 

[JSF]

When playing against someone decent, it's an uphill battle and the games are sooooo fucking slow because you can't open ppl up for shit and it's basically grabs or just waiting for your opponent to lose patience and try to whiff punish.
It's agonizingly slow.
Then it becomes agonizingly slow and angering when your opponent starts to flawless block your B22 and you're forced to do gimmicky stuff like B2~Arc projectile or B2~grab or B2~might-as-well-just-fuck-myself-for-choosing-this-character

i get a timeout round win against every good player i run into lol i've literally thrown someone 6 times in a round because i couldn't open him up. you have to somehow get a life lead to force mistakes but with no way to open them up.
I do a lot of b2 stagger into another b2 or b2 dash up throw and if they red that b2 dash up b2 b3 or b2 b12 to catch them neutral ducking but its all gimmicks. If they're jump happy then i cant even approach i just try to zone, if they have a teleport im fucked lol just wait for an opportunity.

 

[JSF]

Yeah the jumping back after d4 on hit is annoying. D4 grenade is good for that.

In general. Grenade a lot so they're scared to jump. But can't do it in matchups where they have a good zoning check. So they're kinda free to just jump

She's got the foundations for a good character and has some individual tools, she just needs some actual strings to threaten with that don't revolve around just entirely forcing mistakes.

i use grenade well from mid/long range but from about round start range its really risk any any closer than that they can kinda jump for free, d2 is awful, s1 is awful, i know d3 anti airs but jump ins are just strong because you can do the early or later to beat anti air buttons that aren't that strong and sometimes combo you for trying it

 

[MashiroTamigi]

I feel if 90% of your normal useage isn't d4 b22 and 13 you're playing her wrong and none of those tools are particularly amazing.

Until we play the opponent that flawless the b22, then, we're at early concept character phase xD
When it happens (and it's happening more and more often with people exploring Frost) it feels sooooooo bad, it's like i have no character anymore,.

 

[Kindred]

All these strings are flawless bloackable at the hit in parenthesis.

1, 3, (2)
B2, (2), 1, 2
3, 4, 4, (2)
B3, (2), (D1)
1, 3, (4)

Although If you dont need to Fb the D1 in B32D1 since it's -16 anyway and the 134 string has enough pushback to keep it safe.

The rest though, is fucked. All her main strings can be flawless blocked, Goldstar NRS.

 

[Wigy]

i use grenade well from mid/long range but from about round start range its really risk any any closer than that they can kinda jump for free, d2 is awful, s1 is awful, i know d3 anti airs but jump ins are just strong because you can do the early or later to beat anti air buttons that aren't that strong and sometimes combo you for trying it

I spin at people when I think a jumps coming but I'm not 100%. It's very hard to whiff punish as you can meterburn. Generally worst you eat is a projectile. Covers coming in with mids or jumps.

Round start I just back off into d3.

Ghetto af but what isn't with frost.

 

[MashiroTamigi]

All these strings are flawless bloackable at the hit in parenthesis.

1, 3, (2)
B2, (2), 1, 2
3, 4, 4, (2)
B3, (2), (D1)
1, 3, (4)

Although If you dont need to Fb the D1 in B32D1 since it's -16 anyway and the 134 string has enough pushback to keep it safe.

The rest though, is fucked. All her main strings can be flawless blocked, Goldstar NRS.

It's crazy how many bad things she has, and i see videos on youtube with people saying "you could make her op in just 2 moves!!".. wtf, she's a mess of a character.

 

[Xzyj]

All these strings are flawless bloackable at the hit in parenthesis.

1, 3, (2)
B2, (2), 1, 2
3, 4, 4, (2)
B3, (2), (D1)
1, 3, (4)

Although If you dont need to Fb the D1 in B32D1 since it's -16 anyway and the 134 string has enough pushback to keep it safe.

The rest though, is fucked. All her main strings can be flawless blocked, Goldstar NRS.

let's be honest though the only important one here is b22 being flawless blockable on the second hit, 1,3 string you can just end in a spin to blow up FB attempt until they respect it and allow you to use continuations (not that they are particularly insane, although i like to use +frames a lot).
3,4,4,2 you're not ever suppsoed to do that last overhead anyway, there's a huge gap before it, people can just full combo you if you commit to full string, same for B32d1 string, it's a combo string, not a pressure tool (besides occasional -16 b3 staggers when they expect second hit too much)

Basically don't forget to blow up FB attempts with moves that come out faster, spin does wonders in that regard

 

[Wigy]

let's be honest though the only important one here is b22 being flawless blockable on the second hit, 1,3 string you can just end in a spin to blow up FB attempt until they respect it and allow you to use continuations (not that they are particularly insane, although i like to use +frames a lot).
3,4,4,2 you're not ever suppsoed to do that last overhead anyway, there's a huge gap before it, people can just full combo you if you commit to full string, same for B32d1 string, it's a combo string, not a pressure tool (besides occasional -16 b3 staggers when they expect second hit too much)

Basically don't forget to blow up FB attempts with moves that come out faster, spin does wonders in that regard

I mean everyone knows this. It's the fact you have to cover your ass on some of your only useful strings.

Meanwhile erron can b2222222 hur dur geras f212 hurrr duuuurr Cassie f42huuuurrrrr durrrrrrr

You get punished on hit with b32d1 if they roll out immediately. Let that sink in.

 

[JSF]

I spin at people when I think a jumps coming but I'm not 100%. It's very hard to whiff punish as you can meterburn. Generally worst you eat is a projectile. Covers coming in with mids or jumps.

Round start I just back off into d3.

Ghetto af but what isn't with frost.

i like the way you think. And i'll be honest my anti airing in MK isnt the best (which is weir because its godlike in SF lol).

let's be honest though the only important one here is b22 being flawless blockable on the second hit, 1,3 string you can just end in a spin to blow up FB attempt until they respect it and allow you to use continuations (not that they are particularly insane, although i like to use +frames a lot).
3,4,4,2 you're not ever suppsoed to do that last overhead anyway, there's a huge gap before it, people can just full combo you if you commit to full string, same for B32d1 string, it's a combo string, not a pressure tool (besides occasional -16 b3 staggers when they expect second hit too much)

Basically don't forget to blow up FB attempts with moves that come out faster, spin does wonders in that regard

i only disagree about the b32d1 string. there is no reason that should have 2 gaps and if it could become a stagger string it would be SOMETHING lol not amazing but it would be an option. or fix b1 so she doesnt step back and make it -3 so we can stagger that lol i want some damn offense

 

[Kindred]

i only disagree about the b32d1 string. there is no reason that should have 2 gaps and if it could become a stagger string it would be SOMETHING lol not amazing but it would be an option. or fix b1 so she doesnt step back and make it -3 so we can stagger that lol i want some damn offense

So fucking frustrating when you hit confirm a D1 and try to follow it up with your fastest mid (B1) only to be poked right back. This alone has made me rage so fucking much.

 

[MashiroTamigi]

I saw randomly Stabs playing shang yesterday in Eleague i think, yeah...

 

[Wigy]

So.. Kano seems to really kill frost?

Am I tripping here?

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Kano doesn't kill Frost take your free grab after f3 and keep him out

 

[Wigy]

Kano doesn't kill Frost take your free grab after f3 and keep him out

How do you keep him out.

Both grenades and bf3 get beat by f3. Reversal grabs are hardly reliable and he's like -7 which means he can mash out of any mid checks.

Without the threat of those frost is easy to get in on. Also he gets the same as Kung lao with free jump in because of Kano ball. Which is a nightmare to punish with frost.

 

[Kindred]

i think you can do 13~drill as an ender instead of D2 for more damage, but ye she's not geras

Ok So I tried again and played around a bit and the highest I found after a flawless block, was this:

U2 > Dash > B3~DB4(amp) > cross JiK~D2 = 249

13~BF4 instead of the D2 gives 248 dmg so you might as well uppercut
You also can't do BF4(amp) for more dmg since you've already used up all your meter

The problem is that this combo is heavily influenced by the pushback of the flawless block. So far I've tried it on Jax and it works for all his Strings that can be flawless blocked. Will test the rest of the cast but man what a hard link.

Also it's amazingly shitty how you are restricted when you pop up an opponent.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

How do you keep him out.

Both grenades and bf3 get beat by f3. Reversal grabs are hardly reliable and he's like -7 which means he can mash out of any mid checks.

Without the threat of those frost is easy to get in on. Also he gets the same as Kung lao with free jump in because of Kano ball. Which is a nightmare to punish with frost.

You use bf3 to bait him into doing f3 which is -13 and guarantees you a reversal grabs same with a blocked kanoball. You don't really need the grenade in that match up. Just use bf3 from time to time to bait him and make him impatient. The rest is just general Kano knowledge like this