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For Honor

Well the only characters they changed were those of the top 5, except for Warden who barely got touched.

I wouldn't say offense for everyone was killed, but offense for most of the top 5 most likely won't be free/safe anymore.
You don't understand top 5 are only characters that have any offense thats why they are top 5. Head butt was nerfed to death and pk zone nerf could be disastrous if it's too slow (I'll need to see for myself). Conq nerfs were good. All buffs are just buffs to defense or pointless
 

Nexallus

From Takeda to Robin
You don't understand top 5 are only characters that have any offense thats why they are top 5. Head butt was nerfed to death and pk zone nerf could be disastrous if it's too slow (I'll need to see for myself). Conq nerfs were good. All buffs are just buffs to defense or pointless
I think you mean that they were
the only characters with a (soap bar in my mouth) safe offense where they could use safe offensive tools over and over again (shield bash, zone attack, headbutt).

Compare this to the other characters like Raider for example who still has a good offense with his side-heavy/ top-light mix-up but he can still be punished if the opponent picks up on it (if he uses it too much).

It seems offense should only be safe when the opponent is exhausted, which makes parrying risky and unrewarding. (I may be wrong here, but it feels like the game revoles around the stamina bar).
 
I think you mean that they were
the only characters with a (soap bar in my mouth) safe offense of using safe moves over and over again.

Compare this to the other characters like Raider for example who still has a good offense with his side-heavy/ top-light mix-up but he can still be punished if the opponent picks up on it (if he uses it too much).

It seems offense should only be safe when the opponent is exhausted, which makes parrying risky and unrewarding. (I may be wrong here, but it feels like the game revoles around the stamina bar).
No head butt was not safe that's why the changes were not justified. I'm fine with zone not being plus and being minus but I was saying it could potentially be reactable now. Conqs nerfs were just. However, all of the buffs are either pointless or help defense, these buffs mean nothing in competitive play except law is another good turtle
 

Nexallus

From Takeda to Robin
No head butt was not safe that's why the changes were not justified. I'm fine with zone not being plus and being minus but I was saying it could potentially be reactable now. Conqs nerfs were just. However, all of the buffs are either pointless or help defense, these buffs mean nothing in competitive play except law is another good turtle
Well I didn't say that all the changes were justified, but Ubisoft is at least being responsive (which is a good sign). We will have to actually test most of these changes before me make any more conclusions.

As for turtling, that's more of a universal problem rather than a character-specific problem.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook


So they reverted some Beta changes as well as making predictable buffs to his Side Lights. Not excited to pick up Kensei again but maybe this will make him not be absolute trash anymore.
 
Reactions: GAV

Yojimzo

One of many Bat-Breakers.
*decides to check if we got the LB patch, see we did* Welp. Time to get back into practice.
AD MORTUM INUMIKUS!
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
yea and i was saying this earlier they only encouraged even more defensive play with this patch

Yeah im not certain gonna have to test it but im pretty sure warlord is shit bag character now. his design was bad they gave him one option on offense now he doesn't even have that.

So i guess ill see you guys whenever season 2 comes out. hopefully the ninja is a better designed character
 
Yeah im not certain gonna have to test it but im pretty sure warlord is shit bag character now. his design was bad they gave him one option on offense now he doesn't even have that.

So i guess ill see you guys whenever season 2 comes out. hopefully the ninja is a better designed character
Definitely not hes still very good and top tier but the decision to nerf headbutt but not full guard is beyond me.
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
Definitely not hes still very good and top tier but the decision to nerf headbutt but not full guard is beyond me.
How do you open people up now ??

Why ever headbutt its too unsafe for a tiny bit off damage, the risk reward is not worth it.

How could you posibly open anyone up with this character now im curious?
 
How do you open people up now ??

Why ever headbutt its too unsafe for a tiny bit off damage, the risk reward is not worth it.

How could you posibly open anyone up with this character now im curious?
you use his unlocked play thats pretty much it. trust me thats a lot more than 85% of the rest of the cast plus you still have fullguard bullshit
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
you use his unlocked play thats pretty much it. trust me thats a lot more than 85% of the rest of the cast plus you still have fullguard bullshit

Lol like i said a shit bag character. Or you can just sit there and never ever attack just wait to full guard but that sounds like aids to me i actually want to play a fighting game were im actually fighting

Another shit bag character conq Jesus did they hit him hard RIP WARLORD RIP CONQUEROR. shields were never meant to live
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
How do you open people up now ??

Why ever headbutt its too unsafe for a tiny bit off damage, the risk reward is not worth it.

How could you posibly open anyone up with this character now im curious?

I mean, he has superior on lights, armor on heavies, he had good damage off a GB, he has all the options every other character had to open someone up and I mean, HB is still there, it's just more reactable. Maybe I'm just the worst ever, but I felt like it wasn't a terrible nerf.

I kinda like Kensei changes, going to mess around on him some.
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
I mean, he has superior on lights, armor on heavies, he had good damage off a GB, he has all the options every other character had to open someone up and I mean, HB is still there, it's just more reactable. Maybe I'm just the worst ever, but I felt like it wasn't a terrible nerf.

I kinda like Kensei changes, going to mess around on him some.

Do me a favor go and try and open decent players up without using headbutt then come back and tell me how it went.
 
Lol like i said a shit bag character. Or you can just sit there and never ever attack just wait to full guard but that sounds like aids to me i actually want to play a fighting game were im actually fighting

Another shit bag character conq Jesus did they hit him hard RIP WARLORD RIP CONQUEROR. shields were never meant to live
Again they are still the best characters they just killed their offense because they hate when you play their game. You are now just a little bit higher on the offense level compared to the rest of the cast but you still have better defensive options, welcome to the club, sort of
 
I aint joining that club waiting on season 2 lol the ninja looks sick as hell he might revive my interest in this game
no one wants to be in this club, not even the devs, but they just dont know what they are doing.

All it really takes is two quick switches and itll fix everything
1. make chip 400% more with heavies and 200% more for lights
2. make parries be done with lights

there everythings fixed.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I like the changes. The only thing I would have done different is I would have fixed the Shugoki bug and removed his armor when he's going for his backbreaker.
 
I like the changes. The only thing I would have done different is I would have fixed the Shugoki bug and removed his armor when he's going for his backbreaker.
yea you like them because the only offense in the game got nerfed with no buffs to any others offense
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Do me a favor go and try and open decent players up without using headbutt then come back and tell me how it went.
What you're missing is that almost every other character in the game outside the top 5, have been having to open decent players up with out HB. My point is not that WL isn't weaker than he was, or that the HB nerf was what he 'needed' or warranted or whatever. My point is that 7-8 other characters have been opening people up without HB - which made them lower tier obviously - since the beginning, and even without it, WL has superior tools in many situations.

Also, I havent had a chance to test but..

  • Stamina cost increased to 15 (from 12).
  • Dodge window increased by 200ms.
  • Miss Recovery reduced to 700ms (from 800ms).
  • Miss Recovery branching into Attack delayed by 200ms.
Thats what they listed.. am I missing something here because it looks like it still starts up the same speed, which is very fast and IS going to catch people. You just cant spam the thing 6x in a row. I see Dodge Window increased, but that doesnt sound like they are talking about it starting up any slower. Dodge window sounds like there is some interaction between the move and your ability to dodge it, and, well, you now have more time. And, wouldnt Miss Recovery be a buff? Sounds like you recover faster if you whiff it, but you cant attack for a little longer after.

Like I said, I havent been able to test this, but just from reading the changes I dont see how the entire character is now shit tier worthless because you have 200ms longer to dodge a move that appears to start up just as fastr as it used to, unless this dodge window thing is a terrible way of wording 'start up' and if he whiffs it entirely (something you absolutely SHOULD be heavily punished for) you have a net loss of 100ms before you can attack (100ms faster recover kinda eats up 100ms of the new attack delay when you think of it). I mean, am I missing something here or misunderstanding the patch notes? How the hell does this kill a character with as much shit as WL has.. I mean jesus, if you parry a heavy you can steal an entire stamina bar and land a side heavy of your own AND daze them.. If you parry a light you get essentially the same thing minus the entire stam bar unless they are low.

Yes, I get it, he cant open people up now, but the strength of defense is a game-wide issue. WL still has significantly more shit than most characters AND HB seems like it still has a place, you just cant do nothing but HB and win.

If Nobu can land that damn kick on players and Warden can land his shoulder (without a cancel or anything), two moves with almost glacial frame data, HB should still have a place.