For Honor

[Nexallus]

Chip, or more chip, seems to be the general consensus. Still, unless the out of Stam state becomes more damning (some just dash away), health dmg seems to be a better option imo.

In exhaustion state, you CAN'T:
Roll away, Safely Parry, or Safely Attack

The only safe option you have in exhaustion is blocking (dogding can be guard broken), and adding stamina damage on block makes blocking more of a neutral tool, rather than a get-out-of-jail free card.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

In exhaustion state, you CAN'T:
Roll away, Safely Parry, or Safely Attack

The only safe option you have in exhaustion is blocking (dogding can be guard broken), and adding stamina damage on block makes blocking more of a neutral tool, rather than a get-out-of-jail free card.

Are you suggesting you can't block when you are staminaless?

 

[Nexallus]

Are you suggesting you can't block when you are staminaless?

Not at all. My idea is that if an attack is blocked while in exhausted state, it should interrupt the exhaustion recovery (maybe even take off some of the stamina being regenerated) to give the aggressor more time to play their game. I feel like this would make the game much more fun than adding health chip damage (then again, I could always be wrong).

 

[Red Hood MKX]

We HAVE been opening players up without an unblockable (unparryable) that guarantees free damage.

I meant open up good players not your average online scrub

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Not at all. My idea is that if an attack is blocked while in exhausted state, it should interrupt the exhaustion recovery (maybe even take off some of the stamina being regenerated) to give the aggressor more time to play their game. I feel like this would make the game much more fun than adding health chip damage (then again, I could always be wrong).

But this doesn't solve anything once the opponent loses and stays stamina less they still will not be penalized they can just continue blocking

 

[Nexallus]

But this doesn't solve anything once the opponent loses and stays stamina less they still will not be penalized they can just continue blocking

Well that's when the aggressor puts them in their character-specific exhaustion mixup. For example, Raider's Unblockable/feint mixup or conqueror's shield bash mixup. Same with Berzerker and his dash feint mixups.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Well that's when the aggressor puts them in their character-specific exhaustion mixup. For example, Raider's Unblockable/feint mixup or conqueror's shield bash mixup. Same with Berzerker and his dash feint mixups.

You're assuming every character has one. Only the top tier and raider have a mixup, the rest can't do anything and so this is pointless, they either have to give everyone at least one or increase the chip a lot there's no way around this

 

[Nexallus]

You're assuming every character has one. Only the top tier and raider have a mixup, the rest can't do anything and so this is pointless, they either have to give everyone at least one or increase the chip a lot there's no way around this

Well it's a rough idea that I have been thinking about for awhile, but I do enjoy discussing it. Now that I think about it characters that don't really work with this idea are Shugoki, Peacekeeper, and Orochi so back to my theory-crafting I go.

Edit: the theory was that with stamina-chip, blocking would only put the opponent back in the mix-up.

 

[GAV]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of bickering. If anyone wants to team up and play Dominion on XB1, hit me up. My GT is GAV60.

 

[Kroaken]

In exhaustion state, you CAN'T:
Roll away, Safely Parry, or Safely Attack

The only safe option you have in exhaustion is blocking (dogding can be guard broken), and adding stamina damage on block makes blocking more of a neutral tool, rather than a get-out-of-jail free card.

While true, some characters can dash away. A very far dash. Too far, imo.

Out of stamina is meaningless without an unblockable to open them up. Health chip opens up the turtle problem. Being out of stamina isn't scary save for vs a few characters (warden, shoguki, etc.). I can just safely block and tech without risking anything.

 

[Kroaken]

I meant open up good players not your average online scrub

And I meant... We HAVE been.

Regardless. We can agree turtling is too strong. And that's a widely held opinion within the community. Chip is THE way to fix that. More people going for parries due to not wanting to eat chip allows for more mind games, more skill required mix-ups, and reactions.

As long as nobody is here to spread the "Warlord is dead now" dribble, we're good.

 

[Kroaken]

One last sentiment.

Safe to nearly safe, damage guarantee-ing, "unparryables" as I call them (headbutt, shoulder, shield bump will, in my opinion, always take from the skill and fun of the game. I am 100% for unparryables that are unsafe. I am for giving tools or a system that opens turtles up.

My favorite example is Valk sweep. Is it a good tool? Yes. Is it unparryable and fast? Sure. But it's unsafe. She RISKS something to use it. Something reasonable. Perfect balance, imo.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Just a personal thought here, if it were made so once out of stam , additional blocked attacks stopped regen and/or removed regened stam, characters that specialize in stam damage would just keep you exhausted forever, and even those that didn't could significantly increase how long you stayed grey... I'm just speaking from PERSONAL opinion, but this sounds like the absolute least amount of fun humanly possible. Like enough that it would actively chase me from the game.

I know it was just a rough sketch, I'm just adding in my usual bullshit where I feel like balance decisions should be made with enjoyment in mind when possible. Ultimately it's just not fun to lose, and you can't make everyone happy, but I feel like considering the, I dunno, enjoyment factor? Of changes is always important.

I don't know what stops the turtle meta, except chip damage maybe, but that starts to skew things in and off itself. It means characters that don't have ways to open you up are risking getting parry'd more often trying to pick and poke at you. I know the emphasis then leans more towards feinting and that's helpful, but I think there would need to be additional balancing at the same time. I'm not against the idea at all. I want everyone to be viable.

 

[GAV]

So yesterday, I finished work early and had the night off. No one was on, so I solo'ed Dominion.

I started off getting put into games where my team was already down big. I went .500 in these games and lost. Then, I got in a game from the beginning - and the right song came on Pandora. That, mixed with a little angst from losing and I was just able to lose myself in the game. I went 24-0 and we just rolled the other team. The other team even had some good players. They were feinting, using mixups and ganking intelligently, but I just slipped and parried everything. Over the next five games, I didn't die once. I went right around 10-0 in them. Then, I cooled off and kept winning - but would die here and there and wasn't quite on like I was. I still was playing OK, but I wasn't focused like I had been. Still, it was a really fun stretch.

Even when I lose, this game is fun - but when everything clicks, this game is the most fun I've had gaming since Def Jam Fight for New York on Ps2.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Went back to mkx yesterday and honestly feels so much better. It actually feels like a complete game and at this pace, it's going to be a long time till for honor feels the same

 

[GAV]

Jump to 3:33 to see the new emotes.

 

[Juggs]

Went back to mkx yesterday and honestly feels so much better. It actually feels like a complete game and at this pace, it's going to be a long time till for honor feels the same

MKX has had years of patches and balance changes.

R6 Siege was dog shit at first now it's apparently amazing. There's plenty of examples of games having a rough start but being good in the end. These days for multiplayer games, WE are the beta testers.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

MKX has had years of patches and balance changes.

R6 Siege was dog shit at first now it's apparently amazing. There's plenty of examples of games having a rough start but being good in the end. These days for multiplayer games, WE are the beta testers.

I completely understand this but in mkx the devs were almost always moving in the right direction. These devs have not made any right calls so far and theyre game is much less playable than mkx was.

R6 siege is still garbage I hate that game

 

[GAV]

Am I really hearing positive things about the changes in MKX?

Either anyone happy stays silent or you just REALLY hate the decisions made by the FH team.

On every change in MKX, all that followed was pages upon pages of salt.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Am I really hearing positive things about the changes in MKX?

Either anyone happy stays silent or you just REALLY hate the decisions made by the FH team.

On every change in MKX, all that followed was pages upon pages of salt.

Thats definitely not true
The majority of the community were very positive with the last patch of mkx

 

[Juggs]

I completely understand this but in mkx the devs were almost always moving in the right direction. These devs have not made any right calls so far and theyre game is much less playable than mkx was.

R6 siege is still garbage I hate that game

Oh is it? I stopped playing Siege but heard all the patches made it way better. But that's the problem. No one wants to wait a year after the release of the game for it to be complete/playable. So For Honor will more than likely suffer the same fate.

 

[GAV]

 

[GAV]

Thats definitely not true
The majority of the community were very positive with the last patch of mkx

Your post made me think of this...

I dunno about the last one, but I remember salt flying everywhere over Quan, Kenshi, Mileena, Tanya, Sub Zero, Triborg, Erron Black, Jason, Raiden, Sonya, Johnny Cage, Kano, Takeda, D'Vorah, Jacqui, and Cassie - over them being too weak or strong after a patch. I probably missed a few too.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Your post made me think of this...

I dunno about the last one, but I remember salt flying everywhere over Quan, Kenshi, Mileena, Tanya, Sub Zero, Triborg, Erron Black, Jason, Raiden, Sonya, Johnny Cage, Kano, Takeda, D'Vorah, Jacqui, and Cassie - over them being too weak or strong after a patch. I probably missed a few too.

Of course the game still had issues but the game was almost always moving in the right direction. For honor is different, the patches arent doing anything and the devs mentality is all wrong

 

[GAV]

Of course the game still had issues but the game was almost always moving in the right direction. For honor is different, the patches arent doing anything and the devs mentality is all wrong

I think I'm not alone in liking unreactable attacks being at a minimum. I like a game we play, not plan.