For Honor

[GAV]

Would anyone be willing to help me with how the Valkyrie vortex works or just some tips for her in general? I main Shugoki and he's fairly straightforward and easy to understand. I do well with him, but I've been trying to play Valkyrie. I have no idea how she's supposed to open people up. All the guides I've seen on YouTube are fairly shitty. I feel like she takes sooooo much work to win a round. My buddy plays Nobushi and I'm having a hell of time trying to deal with her.

The good Valks I have faced all played super defensive. They would use their shield bash to bait attacks. Then, land the one hit they need to start their combo. They have a pounce after a knockdown that I don't know how to do, but it seems to separate the finishers from the try-hards. I don't play Valk, but I'm sure a player of your calibur just needs a little time to sort everything out.

Valk is fundamentally different from Shugo though. With Shugo, initiating offense is how to start. That just isn't the case with Valk. With Valk, you just want to poke or prod carefully to get them to come after you.

 

[GAV]

Lawbringer has no offense. None. A good player will take little to no damage from Lawbringer. I don't understand how some think he's stronger than raider. His command grab leads to shit damage and all the shove does is hurt your feelings.

Feelings are my only weakness.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

I was watching petemoos stream last night he is the best warlord player. he faced a million pks in a tournament each game was close as nails thats a good match up to watch good offence against a good defense every match was close nothing looked out of balance. Could all this warlord is broken talk be a super good player is using a good character and winning nit so much the character is broken by himself. i mean its only petemoos warlord thats winning no other warlords are winning like him just a thought

 

[deathblooms2k4]

I was watching petemoos stream last night he is the best warlord player. he faced a million pks in a tournament each game was close as nails thats a good match up to watch good offence against a good defense every match was close nothing looked out of balance. Could all this warlord is broken talk be a super good player is using a good character and winning nit so much the character is broken by himself. i mean its only petemoos warlord thats winning no other warlords are winning like him just a thought

Could be, except the example you listed (Petemoo) has said himself that Warlord is OP and needs a nerf lol. Could it be your adamant defense of the class is a result of you maining it? Petemoo is indeed an amazing player 8/8 tournament wins, but the thing I respect about him most is he looks at the game objectively and can admit when something is out of balance.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I was watching petemoos stream last night he is the best warlord player. he faced a million pks in a tournament each game was close as nails thats a good match up to watch good offence against a good defense every match was close nothing looked out of balance. Could all this warlord is broken talk be a super good player is using a good character and winning nit so much the character is broken by himself. i mean its only petemoos warlord thats winning no other warlords are winning like him just a thought

Petemoo doesn't have to work nearly as hard as the other pks in the tourney it's that simple. I honestly don't think petemoo is that good but he is very hard to beat because of warlord. It's no mere coincidence that every big tourney that's been won was won with a warlord. You seem to be awfully quick to defend warlord (pun not intended) and how good he is without really looking into why he is so good.

 

[Juggs]

Some notes on Warlord and Shugoki. Can anyone add to these, and add notes for Peacekeeper and Conquerer? As well as Valkyrie? Thanks in advance.

Warlord:
- Has the most winning matchups in the game.
- Has no true losing matchup, his worst matchups are 5-5 (aka even)
- He has the best defense in the game
- He has the 2nd best offense in the game
- He can avoid mixups altogether with his 'all guard', and once he's attacked in 'all guard', he gets a guaranteed light punish. He can also guardbreak out of 'all guard', meaning he can GB tech while in 'all guard'
- His headbutt has very little downside, the reward outweighs the risk. After headbutt connects, the headbutt riposte is guaranteed. Yes, you CAN dodge the headbutt.
- He has one of the best throws in the game. If your guardbroken, the chances are very high you're going off a cliff or into an environmental

Shugoki:
- Highest heath in the game
- Has one hit of armor by default. The armor goes away upon hit, but recharges after a few seconds
- Shugoki is virtually unpunishable when armor is activated. There are some punishes, such as guard break and two quick hitting lights, but both require you be right next to him.
- On punishing, you can't guard break punish him off a parry consistently. Some times he's too far for the guard break to connect. This forces long range poke punishes. Which when he has armor, he can just eat it on purpose to get his own free punish, usually a guardbreak.
- Off of a guardbreak, if you're near a wall, Goki can throw you into a wall and get a free Devil's Embrace. This does decent damage and also heals the Goki's health. He also gets the baseball bat hit off of a GB, which can send you off the edge or into an environmental easily.
- He has an unlocked unblockable run that knocksdown on impact. After knockdown he gets a free heavy. There's very little downside to "spamming" this, other than the stamina cost.
- He has several unblockable setups, with and without his unblockable heavy charge attack.

 

[John Grizzly]

The good Valks I have faced all played super defensive. They would use their shield bash to bait attacks. Then, land the one hit they need to start their combo. They have a pounce after a knockdown that I don't know how to do, but it seems to separate the finishers from the try-hards. I don't play Valk, but I'm sure a player of your calibur just needs a little time to sort everything out.

Valk is fundamentally different from Shugo though. With Shugo, initiating offense is how to start. That just isn't the case with Valk. With Valk, you just want to poke or prod carefully to get them to come after you.

Thanks for the reply, man.

Yeah, I have no issue baiting people into the shield bash. It's the follow-ups after I have issues with. I think the the pounce is dash into overhead light, but I'm not sure.

And you're right about the difference. It's night and day playing these two characters as mains. I have to be so patient as Valkyrie to get any damage. With Shugoki, I don't really care what my opponent does as long as I have my super armor.

If anyone mains Valkyrie or is really familiar with the character, I'd love to know where she gets guaranteed damage. She has so many moves that do no damage that are simply a setup (Shield Bash, Charged Shield Bash, Spear Sweep, Headbutt). I just don't really know what my good options are after connecting these.

 

[Juggs]

Petemoo doesn't have to work nearly as hard as the other pks in the tourney it's that simple. I honestly don't think petemoo is that good but he is very hard to beat because of warlord. It's no mere coincidence that every big tourney that's been won was won with a warlord. You seem to be awfully quick to defend warlord (pun not intended) and how good he is without really looking into why he is so good.

@Red Hood MKX Yeah, it's not just petemoo. He's just the one winning right now. Take a look at my notes above on Warlord. Not having any losing matchups is the exact definition of god tier.

He doesn't need any huge nerfs. Just a slight nerf while buffing the bottom and mid tiers.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Can you guys give explanations/examples as to why you think Raider,Lawbringer and whoever else as bad? Someone said Lawbringer has no offense, but he sure has hell has more offense than Kensei.

 

[freerf245]

Can you guys give explanations/examples as to why you think Raider,Lawbringer and whoever else as bad? Someone said Lawbringer has no offense, but he sure has hell has more offense than Kensei.

LOL

 

[GAV]

Thanks for the reply, man.

Yeah, I have no issue baiting people into the shield bash. It's the follow-ups after I have issues with. I think the the pounce is dash into overhead light, but I'm not sure.

And you're right about the difference. It's night and day playing these two characters as mains. I have to be so patient as Valkyrie to get any damage. With Shugoki, I don't really care what my opponent does as long as I have my super armor.

If anyone mains Valkyrie or is really familiar with the character, I'd love to know where she gets guaranteed damage. She has so many moves that do no damage that are simply a setup (Shield Bash, Charged Shield Bash, Spear Sweep, Headbutt). I just don't really know what my good options are after connecting these.

This one is pretty good. Just jump forward.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Some notes on Warlord and Shugoki. Can anyone add to these, and add notes for Peacekeeper and Conquerer? As well as Valkyrie? Thanks in advance.

Warlord:
- Has the most winning matchups in the game.
- Has no true losing matchup, his worst matchups are 5-5 (aka even)
- He has the best defense in the game
- He has the 2nd best offense in the game
- He can avoid mixups altogether with his 'all guard', and once he's attacked in 'all guard', he gets a guaranteed light punish. He can also guardbreak out of 'all guard', meaning he can GB tech while in 'all guard'
- His headbutt has very little downside, the reward outweighs the risk. After headbutt connects, the headbutt riposte is guaranteed. Yes, you CAN dodge the headbutt.
- He has one of the best throws in the game. If your guardbroken, the chances are very high you're going off a cliff or into an environmental

Shugoki:
- Highest heath in the game
- Has one hit of armor by default. The armor goes away upon hit, but recharges after a few seconds
- Shugoki is virtually unpunishable when armor is activated. There are some punishes, such as guard break and two quick hitting lights, but both require you be right next to him.
- On punishing, you can't guard break punish him off a parry consistently. Some times he's too far for the guard break to connect. This forces long range poke punishes. Which when he has armor, he can just eat it on purpose to get his own free punish, usually a guardbreak.
- Off of a guardbreak, if you're near a wall, Goki can throw you into a wall and get a free Devil's Embrace. This does decent damage and also heals the Goki's health. He also gets the baseball bat hit off of a GB, which can send you off the edge or into an environmental easily.
- He has an unlocked unblockable run that knocksdown on impact. After knockdown he gets a free heavy. There's very little downside to "spamming" this, other than the stamina cost.
- He has several unblockable setups, with and without his unblockable heavy charge attack.

Shugoki takes more damage (I think it's 2x danage) when he has no armor. He's super slow (just cuz he has armor doesn't make this not bad) Quick double hitting attacks blow up his heavies (Warden Light, PK's double hit move thing don't know the input, Orochi top light) aaaaand I think that's it that you missed for Goki.

 

[CrazyFingers]

OH! And a bit off topic, in the Goki mirror match, Light+Headbutt is unpunishable unless parried. The other Goki can't hit again in time to not eat the headbutt.

 

[CrazyFingers]

@Juggs for Warlord don't forget his Zone Attack does one bar of damage and has huge range and is unreactable (might be included in his offense being so good)

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

LOL

Which is why I'm asking. Thank you very much for the input

 

[John Grizzly]

This one is pretty good. Just jump forward.

Thanks, man. Actually found one just now that includes the new version of her post update with her buffs. I'm going to stick it out with her. She's super fun once you get your momentum going.

For anyone interested, here you go:

It's not a guide, really. It's basically just this dude playing and trying to explain what he's doing as he goes. He demonstrates the vortex and comes back against a Warden being down to a small tick of damage.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Can you guys give explanations/examples as to why you think Raider,Lawbringer and whoever else as bad? Someone said Lawbringer has no offense, but he sure has hell has more offense than Kensei.

even if kensei has 1 option and no others, thats still more options than lawbringer. Lawbringer has nothing on offense to utilize besides shove which does basically nothing

 

[Snibbor]

I think Lawbringer is bad because he doesn't have any real options on offense to open people up. Someone else already put it very well, shove leads to literally nothing except a bit of stamina damage, his command grab is telegraphed and even if it does manage to hit, grants only a light. He's hella slow and doesn't really have anything else that I know of.

What do you guys think could be done to improve lawbringer? I think adding the ability to cancel his command grab would be a good buff, it would give him a chance to bait and parry the dodge attacks that would punish the command grab.

 

[GAV]

I think Lawbringer is bad because he doesn't have any real options on offense to open people up. Someone else already put it very well, shove leads to literally nothing except a bit of stamina damage, his command grab is telegraphed and even if it does manage to hit, grants only a light. He's hella slow and doesn't really have anything else that I know of.

What do you guys think could be done to improve lawbringer? I think adding the ability to cancel his command grab would be a good buff, it would give him a chance to bait and parry the dodge attacks that would punish the command grab.

Make his throws do some damage and give him something to utilize the reach of his weapon.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

even if kensei has 1 option and no others, thats still more options than lawbringer. Lawbringer has nothing on offense to utilize besides shove which does basically nothing

What is Kensei's option?

 

[GAV]

What is Kensei's option?

Kensei are good when they have numbers. Recognizing that overhead and parrying when it comes from the side doesn't ever happen. Its a kill for sure.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

What is Kensei's option?

hes got way better mix-ups than lawbringer, and just straight up better moves

 

[Juggs]

Recognizing that overhead and parrying when it comes from the side doesn't ever happen. Its a kill for sure.

What does this mean?

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Anyone interested in sitting down for some duels later today? (On PC). In a perfect world, we'd be able to play a couple hours and I'd be able to run through a handful of matches on a handful of characters and the focus is on me figuring out how they work some, ie, I'm asking someone to help me get s feel for a few classes without wiping me off the map in the first second of play. Maybe jump in voice chat.

 

[Snibbor]

What is Kensei's option?

Kensei can cancel his overhead unblockable which leads to a lot of mind games. If he suspects you will parry his unblockable he can parry your attempt to do so. He can also cancel into side attacks of some form but idk if they're heavy or light or anything. Or he can not cancel it at all and deal big damage if it hits.