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Fatal Blows must be changed

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DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
I hate Fatal Blows so bad. Whenever I win a round with raw Fatal Blow I just dont feel good about it. For some characters it's practically a Win-the-Game button. I get so salty when I conditioned them to expect something and properly mix them up but they jam on their 32% two button move with frame five armor.
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
I hate Fatal Blows so bad. Whenever I win a round with raw Fatal Blow I just dont feel good about it. For some characters it's practically a Win-the-Game button. I get so salty when I conditioned them to expect something and properly mix them up but they jam on their 32% two button move with frame five armor.
it's the cooldown mechanic that fuck up FB .... if you could use FB just one single time, hitting the spot with or totally missing, and so, after that FB is gone, ok , that's it ... but once, if you miss it, you just happen to manage and survive 10 more seconds and FB come again active , the whole match just turn it into a frenzy "cat catching mouse" guess game : "who gonna poke first and link with that FB to win ?" see it ? it's boring, hehe :p
 

grandabx

The Flameater
it's the cooldown mechanic that fuck up FB .... if you could use FB just one single time, hitting the spot with or totally missing, and so, after that FB is gone, ok , that's it ... but once, if you miss it, you just happen to manage and survive 10 more seconds and FB come again active , the whole match just turn it into a frenzy "cat catching mouse" guess game : "who gonna poke first and link with that FB to win ?" see it ? it's boring, hehe :p
It's application is still bad. It's slows down the game because it's automatic and on the final round, it's the focus point. Traits would be better.
 

Lex Luthor II

Lord of Lightning
THE BIGGEST problem with fatal blow is in this situation: you have 33% life and your opponent has 27% life, now they have fatal blow locked and loaded but you don't because you did better so far. Now they hit you once game over no chance for using defensive meter.

If fatal blow becomes available to one player, the OTHER player should get access to it as well. Its annoying hitting that spot where you are upset you have more life than them, when they have fatal blow.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
THE BIGGEST problem with fatal blow is in this situation: you have 33% life and your opponent has 27% life, now they have fatal blow locked and loaded but you don't because you did better so far. Now they hit you once game over no chance for using defensive meter.

If fatal blow becomes available to one player, the OTHER player should get access to it as well. Its annoying hitting that spot where you are upset you have more life than them, when they have fatal blow.
lol wot....I disagree .
If you have 33% and your opponent is at 27%, I would call it pretty even. I wouldnt say you did better just because you are a poke away from being at the same health meter :rolleyes:. Moments like these you gotta become vigilant and that's it.

Now, imagine you get your opponent to 27% and you're at 95% health. Suddenly, u get a FB because your opponent has one....that's a terrible idea and essentially brings their chances of a comeback to 0. Especially since FB recharge if they miss.

The biggest problem with FB is that it should be heavily punishable for everyone, without a pushback that makes it safe. And to those who have a long range one (ex: Frost and Erron), then it should take longer to recharge. It should be a high risk/high reward move.
 
I feel that one or the other should happened to fatal blows tell me if you agree with one of them or not. ONE, every single FB that is blocked should be EASY to punish but it still recharges like normal and it can only be preformed once. TWO, when a FB is attempted it should take all your DEF and OFF to be preformed and still can only be preformed once but some are still safe and have knock back. If you don't have full OFF and DEF it will not be performed. (kind of like an mkx x-ray)
 
FB should be -10000 on block, do we really need to remember how to punish every single one of them based on the pushback? Like one thing are moves that can be used any time in the game, so you can learn it by just playing, but this is pure tedious labing time consuming bs...
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
No I mean specifically the very last bullet. I've had a few times where I caught someone jumping and hit the FB, but somehow they landed on the ground before it was done. So I'm guessing only the last bullet in his startup actually triggers it.
 

cavemold

BIG D POLE .
No I mean specifically the very last bullet. I've had a few times where I caught someone jumping and hit the FB, but somehow they landed on the ground before it was done. So I'm guessing only the last bullet in his startup actually triggers it.
hmmm really thats intresting...
 
It may have already been mentioned, but another solution is to lower FB from 30% life to maybe 15% life. Like others are mentioning, missing it should now allow you to use it again at all.

FB animations are starting to get tiring. Especially peeves me when someone does it instead of the fatality after I already lost.
 

Wigy

There it is...
It's stupid on some characters.

Geras or erron on 30% hp. Better not even think of pressing a button.
 

HeavyNorse

#BlackLivesMatter
I can agree that FB's could be more punishable if they whiff or are blocked, but otherwise they're fine as is, imo.
 
This is not to encourage a debate. This is reserved for everyone who wants to shut their console off every time they see one of these things and loudly express their discontent.
Well, this stipulation technically precludes my responding to this thread (NB: PC must'tard racer)... HOWEVER, I think I'm well past qualified to throw my two Vietnamese Dong's worth into this dumpster fire:

How to fix MK11's super mechanic ("Fatal Blows"):

1. Lower the activation threshold to [a base] 10%

2. Restrict FB's use to the FINAL ROUND ONLY -- i.e., if Player-2 has lost the first round of the match, their FB will become available at 10% HP in that second round (and the subsequent round, if unused and the third round is reached -- see below...)

3. Tie Fatal Blow to the game's meter system, where if the super move is used, it drains 100% of both defensive and offensive meters, PERMANENTLY -- i.e., players must sacrifice their meters (and all the mechanics tied therewith) for the rest of the match, if they want to avail their Fatal Blow super move; making the FB's true, Hail Mary "desperation" moves.

4. Increase FB damage output to a base ~50%/500pts (raw / un-comboed), to balance their cost.

5. Within a ±10%/100pt damage window, tweak ("balance") FB damage to reflect character archetype (big/small, male/female, humanoid/monster), FB potency and efficacy (combo viability, exposure to damage-scaling, frame data, armour properties) and FB look/style (animations).

6. Increase the FB QTE timing window to something reasonably and consistently attainable -- e.g., 10-frame window.

7. Increase the damage increase / mitigation properties of successfully timed FB QTE's -- e.g., ±10~15% damage increase / decrease per successful input -- i.e., x5 successful QTE inputs = ±50~75pts base FB damage (*opponent's actions and individual char. FB damage properties notwithstanding).

8.
Provide an option (AN OPTION) for non-universal, individualised, more traditional input command schemes for FB's -- e.g., 2141236 + two button; 4646 + one button.

9.
Tie thus "Alternate" input scheme to FB properties, in some positive manner (in order to incentivise their use, at least a competitive level) -- e.g., alternate input configuration yields an overall +5% damage boost -OR- earlier HP activation threshold -OR- better armour properties -OR- better frame properties (combo potential).

10.
MAKE THE FATAL BLOWS THE "DESPERATION ATTACKS" THAT THEY WERE, AT LEAST NOTIONALLY CONCEIVED TO BE.

NB: All such changes should be applied in concert, relative to one another and balanced as such. No, one hereinbefore change, on its own, will necessarily work for the better -- ALL of the changes are designed to interplay with one another to achieve a sound mechanic.

Disclaimer:
I do not care whether people "like" the ideas I've proposed, nor whether they 'think' the Fatal Blows are the bee's knee as is. The extant system is unequivocally GARBAGE -- evinced by the incessant cries for its overhaul and overwhelming hatred for it, and all immediately proceeding the game's release.

I have played fighting games for longer than most who play MK11 today have been alive. I know what a "super" or "desperation" attack should look and operate like, and MK11's Fatal Blows are NOT an example of this. Defending such an obnoxious and obvious non fighting game 'gamer' titillating mechanic, demonstrates nothing but the irrelevancy of one's opinion--where a fighting game's gameplay system is concerned.

My expertise in this department is unquestionable. I do not even consider the opinions of casual players, whose majority MK11 play-time comes from feckless, mindless grinding of the game's gated content, in its insulting non-core game modes. I could not care less what "Smash", "MvC" or "BB Cross Tag Battle" do. Apple-orange analogies have no place here... if MK11 is to be considered a genuine fighting game, and not just some "brawler" wherein combat mechanics are merely incidental.

If you are too blind to see the sheer wisdom in what I have so generously imparted upon you, that is your shame and, indeed, loss. I am not here to cosset your feeble feelings and fragile ego. If you are "offended" by my suggestions and/or forthright candour, that is a psychological problem that you, yourself must grapple with. Although I could act as your ad hoc shrink, I have no desire to do so; and nor will I. Grow a spine / some balls and deal with it™.

Most great people in history are only recognised posthumously. I, for one, will NOT go so gently into that dark night. My opinion supersedes yours. My ideas are better than yours. Your contribution pales in comparison to mine. What you wrought on your best day, is of lesser worth than what I barf up on my worst.

The field of expertise must be respected -- failing to do so, risks chaos. I promote logic and order. Ignorance strives only for entropy. If you are ignorant, you are the enemy. The enemy must be fought and expunged--with extreme prejudice.

Do not be my enemy -- be my friend. Reject death. Choose life. Choose a better Fatal Blow system.

 

Lex Luthor II

Lord of Lightning
lol wot....I disagree .
If you have 33% and your opponent is at 27%, I would call it pretty even. I wouldnt say you did better just because you are a poke away from being at the same health meter :rolleyes:. Moments like these you gotta become vigilant and that's it.

Now, imagine you get your opponent to 27% and you're at 95% health. Suddenly, u get a FB because your opponent has one....that's a terrible idea and essentially brings their chances of a comeback to 0. Especially since FB recharge if they miss.

The biggest problem with FB is that it should be heavily punishable for everyone, without a pushback that makes it safe. And to those who have a long range one (ex: Frost and Erron), then it should take longer to recharge. It should be a high risk/high reward move.
Point flew totally over your head, and that was just a fake solution to a very real problem.

Why should your opponent be rewarded for doing 6% worse than you? They are CLEARLY at a huge advantage; how'd they get there? By doing worse so far.

If you cannot see the utter ridiculousness in that system then truly I say this unto you now: you are lost.
 
If fatal blow becomes available to one player, the OTHER player should get access to it as well. Its annoying hitting that spot where you are upset you have more life than them, when they have fatal blow.
It's the same as any comeback meter as far as i'm aware. The more you die the more meter you get.

The way you describe it, then in previous games if one player gets a full bar for x-ray/super, then the other should get one as well? It doesn't work like that. The way i see it you have to earn it. You get meter by being aggressive and on the offense, but that's risky as you can get blown up. FB you "earn" by giving up your life. So while you may get that as a bonus, you're at the end where any decent combo might take you out.

but another solution is to lower FB from 30% life to maybe 15% life.
Why would you bother? Anyone that even picks up the game for a day can pull off a 15% combo 100% of the time.

It's there as a comeback mechanic, and works well when one player is 70% and the other is 30% to even things up, but doesn't seem so fair when it's 35%/25%.

Maybe it should scale somehow? So take MAX 50% of whatever the opponent has left? Problem with that is you potentially can take 50% if you haven't hit your opponent, which will probably annoy people even more - but does even out the match rather quickly, which is the point after all.

Seeing as some people want it tied to meter, possibly something like this: first attempt is free, 2nd attempt you lose 1bar off/def meter, 3rd attempt you lose both bars. 4th you lose both bars and they don't regen. That way you have to make the first one count, otherwise every attempt afterwards you risk being stuck with less options as you've got less or no meter. Will definitely add to the risk of throwing it out especially more than twice.

Doubt they're going to re-jig much of it though. But so long as they balance them out so they're not overpowered/speed etc, then they'll get figured out in time.
 

Ayx

Omnipresent
Some of these suggestions for Fatals are ridiculous. It's like no one has ever played against a char w/ armor moves or invincibility frames ever. Comeback mechanics have been around since SF4.. in 2008..... you really think this is "that" broken? I think one of the only nerfs it really needs is add 3 seconds to the cooldown so people can't turtle that much. (adds more pressure to the player who failed it) and make recovery frames a guaranteed punish even for slower mid attacks regardless of range (basically adding more recovery frames). Yes they're fully punishable now but you can tell a lot of people have no idea how to punish them properly and if FB is noob friendly, punishing them should be noob friendly as well IMO.
 
SPOLIER ALERT!!
Nothing so substantive as a Fatal Blow overhaul would ever happen in an already-released NRS fight game. Little Beyond "nerf" patches will be forthcoming, and short of a "Super" or "Ultra" reboot of M11 -- something as likely as people getting the chars. they actually want, or the core gameplay engine changing: BUCKLEY'S AND SNOWFLAKE'S -- FB's will remain as is... for better or (rather) for worse.
 
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