FAQ & KAMEO FIGHTERS - Discussion

[chud_munson]

My personal hope is one of two things:

Every playable fighter is complete on their own, but there's a part of their kit that is replaceable by a kameo character. So for example, say Raiden has 30 "items" (between basic moves, special moves, grabs, whatever), 7 of those are marked as replaceable, and that's where the kameo comes in. It might be visually jarring to have a kameo pop in for a split second in the middle of a kombo though.

Alternatively, it might be cool to have somewhat of a tag experience where you can choose to spend some resource to have your kameo come in for you to control, and that kameo has access to a unique kombo or special moves or whatever. In that way you're not really forced to use a kameo, you just pay meter or something to give yourself options you wouldn't otherwise have.

I feel the same way others do though that I hope it doesn't effectively always require you to choose a kameo. I hope if you choose a kameo, there's some drawback to even that choice out.

 

[Law Hero]

My personal hope is one of two things:

Every playable fighter is complete on their own, but there's a part of their kit that is replaceable by a kameo character. So for example, say Raiden has 30 "items" (between basic moves, special moves, grabs, whatever), 7 of those are marked as replaceable, and that's where the kameo comes in. It might be visually jarring to have a kameo pop in for a split second in the middle of a kombo though.

Alternatively, it might be cool to have somewhat of a tag experience where you can choose to spend some resource to have your kameo come in for you to control, and that kameo has access to a unique kombo or special moves or whatever. In that way you're not really forced to use a kameo, you just pay meter or something to give yourself options you wouldn't otherwise have.

I feel the same way others do though that I hope it doesn't effectively always require you to choose a kameo. I hope if you choose a kameo, there's some drawback to even that choice out.

I hope kameos kind of work like bounds in TTT2. Calling in your tag to extend your combo, but doing so gives your opponent resources. Also, maybe the breaker resource will be tied to kameos.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

I wonder if the KF is gonna have it's own meter or if it's gonna be tied to your ex meter

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Its probably a cooldown like most tag games, but they might have Ex Kameo moves.

 

[Pterodactyl]

And that would be perfect. I want the kameos to esstienally be filler. Want a extra fireball? Ok pick this kameo. Want a slight extension on your already crazy combo, pick that one.

An extra fireball gives you pressure and safety utility, a slight extension to your combo means that its required for optimal combo damage.

You aren't making sense.

The only way for them to not cause such meta defining effects is to have them not do anything at all or make summoning them basically be so slow that the opponent can just kill you for even trying. And we all know there is no way in hell they're putting money and DLC toward a useless mechanic.

 

[liljay273]

An extra fireball gives you pressure and safety utility, a slight extension to your combo means that its required for optimal combo damage.

You aren't making sense.

The only way for them to not cause such meta defining effects is to have them not do anything at all or make summoning them basically be so slow that the opponent can just kill you for even trying. And we all know there is no way in hell they're putting money and DLC toward a useless mechanic.

Slight extensions for different combo routes and style. Not optimal damage. There are plenty of useless combo extenders that you wouldn't do. The extra pressure you get from a certain fireball is negligible, no one in MVC3 is putting OD pressure on anybody from Ryu's fireball assist.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Fuck all that. MK11 was way too boring. I hope this game shakes it up with some wild shit. I want Kameos to be crazy as fuck

 

[Pterodactyl]

Slight extensions for different combo routes and style. Not optimal damage. There are plenty of useless combo extenders that you wouldn't do. The extra pressure you get from a certain fireball is negligible, no one in MVC3 is putting OD pressure on anybody from Ryu's fireball assist.

A slight extension for a different combo route means that they will just be optimal situationally which is not uncommon for assists in fighting games.

the extra pressure a single fireball can give you is far from neglibile, an active moving hitbox that you throw out while independently moving your character opens up so much pressure and safety potential depending on the behavior of the projectile. We've seen this time and time again for decades. Be it raining missiles, a low hitting fireball, or something slow that creeps across the sreen, or even a straight beam, etc the utility cannot be ignored. Even if they did no damage, the fact that it causes any sort of hit or block reaction makes it super valuable by default.

You are living in fantasy if you think these assists will somehow have a function that is negligible, or that people would not find ways to make them required for optimal combos or setups or pressure or safety.

 

[liljay273]

A slight extension for a different combo route means that they will just be optimal situationally which is not uncommon for assists in fighting games.

the extra pressure a single fireball can give you is far from neglibile, an active moving hitbox that you throw out while independently moving your character opens up so much pressure and safety potential depending on the behavior of the projectile. We've seen this time and time again for decades. Be it raining missiles, a low hitting fireball, or something slow that creeps across the sreen, or even a straight beam, etc the utility cannot be ignored. Even if they did no damage, the fact that it causes any sort of hit or block reaction makes it super valuable by default.

You are living in fantasy if you think these assists will somehow have a function that is negligible, or that people would not find ways to make them required for optimal combos or setups or pressure or safety.

Like I said Ryu assist is trash and you aren't getting much pressure from it. You noted other assists which wasn't in the ballpark of what i was talking about. I refuse to believe we are getting something as oppressive as hidden missiles in this game assist wise

 

[Pterodactyl]

Like I said Ryu assist is trash and you aren't getting much pressure from it. You noted other assists which wasn't in the ballpark of what i was talking about. I refuse to believe we are getting something as oppressive as hidden missiles in this game assist wise

Ryu assist is trash with the context of other assists existing,

If it were the only type of assists in that game, like you're asking for in MK1, it would still be more useful to have it than to not. It would still be required for optimal play and be useful in general and effect the way matches play out.

Even if the only type of assist in the game was characters come out and throw a slow ass rock that did no damage but caused a hit reaction, people would learn to time the rock toss to cover their approach, or hit during their recovery frames to make them safe, or allow them to link two otherwise unlinkable attacks together for a long combo.

The only thing they could feasibly do to make it have no tanglible or competitive impact on a match is to make it a glorified taunt button like Leroy's dog. But I promise you that is not gonna be the case seeing as they are already advertising this mechanic and we know it will be monetized as well.

 

[Alec]

Guys, you should listen to what @Pterodactyl is saying.
You have every right to not like assist fighting games but, like it or not, this is, apparently, an assist game. So, I don't need inside info to know that what some of you are asking will not happen.
Even the chances of you being able to not choose a Kameo Fighter are close to zero. What is actually impossible is the Kameo Fighters being "essentially filler" or "not very important" in the game.

Kameo Fighters are THE gameplay mechanic of this game, there will be no escaping it. I don't know how "fully fledged" playable characters will be, but regardless, Kameo fighters will definitely "complete" them. This is the new mechanic to effectively change how your character will play through synergies.
Expect overheads and lows that will give main chars mixup potential; expect "hard-to-blockables"; expect combo extensions; restands; making strings safe; plus frames/block strings/pressure, etc.

Like I said, it's Ok not to like it. I'm not a big fan of tag games myself, and as such I don't know how I'll adapt to this game. My point is you better start accepting this, because it doesn't matter if you like it or "agree" or not, you'll be in for a rude awakening otherwise.

 

[Hara-Killer]

naruto accel 2 for ps2 has assist ,it was L1 button , u can chose manual (L1 to call and L1 to attack) and automatic (assist atack with 1 move only in that game)
the fanbase started to ban assist in competitive matchs , maybe that can be the case for later MK1 competitive scenario ? some gonna use assist and some gonna ban ?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

naruto accel 2 for ps2 has assist ,it was L1 button , u can chose manual (L1 to call and L1 to attack) and automatic (assist atack with 1 move only in that game)
the fanbase started to ban assist in competitive matchs , maybe that can be the case for later MK1 competitive scenario ? some gonna use assist and some gonna ban ?

I really hope NRS is done with the "competitive banned" moves. It was such a waste in MK11

 

[Vslayer]

Guys, you should listen to what @Pterodactyl is saying.
You have every right to not like assist fighting games but, like it or not, this is, apparently, an assist game. So, I don't need inside info to know that what some of you are asking will not happen.
Even the chances of you being able to not choose a Kameo Fighter are close to zero. What is actually impossible is the Kameo Fighters being "essentially filler" or "not very important" in the game.

Kameo Fighters are THE gameplay mechanic of this game, there will be no escaping it. I don't know how "fully fledged" playable characters will be, but regardless, Kameo fighters will definitely "complete" them. This is the new mechanic to effectively change how your character will play through synergies.
Expect overheads and lows that will give main chars mixup potential; expect "hard-to-blockables"; expect combo extensions; restands; making strings safe; plus frames/block strings/pressure, etc.

Like I said, it's Ok not to like it. I'm not a big fan of tag games myself, and as such I don't know how I'll adapt to this game. My point is you better start accepting this, because it doesn't matter if you like it or "agree" or not, you'll be in for a rude awakening otherwise.

This.

I personally don't mind assists, I played MVSC a whole lot. But we can't compare what NRS will do with assists to what other games have done. One, because we don't have all the info yet and two, it's NRS, it'll play like an NRS game. I think a lot of people are worried for things that very well might not work like they think. At this point we really just have to wait for the Kombat Kasts for more info on how this mechanic is going to work.

 

[chud_munson]

Ultimately, I'm open to whatever. In a perfect world, I would love if everything is balanced to the point that I could use my character alone or any of the eligible kameos and I can reasonably win with any configuration, but I also realize that this is the theme of MK1 and realistically it's hard to imagine a scenario where a character isn't improved by one of the many available kameos. But at the end of the day, I just want a fun game.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I'm anticipating filth from the depths of hell, positively putrid setups and assist combos that'll make ya jaw drop.

The only thing I'm worried about is the presentation. My biggest issue with tag and assist games is how weird the assists can look in action if you don't turn your brain off to them. Having someone completely off screen just show up then leave is a little weird when you think about it.

Anything from jumping down from nowhere, to straight up sprinting in from one side of the screen and jumping out. It often doesn't feel that fluid.

MK9 was actually one of the few games that alleviated some of the awkwardness of this by giving characters unique exit animations when you would tag out. They still had the janky run-in animation problem though. I can only hope characters get unique entrances for their assists too. I just hope they do more than run in, do an attack, then run out, constantly.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I get the feeling these will be more involved than just a single button static attack.

They might be building on this mechanic:

 

[Agilaz]

I'm becoming more optimistic the more I think about it. I feel like the mechanic is gonna be properly fleshed out without being overwhelming to the point of turning into chaotic MvC fuckery. It's still MK after all, and overcomplication isn't what's getting them millions of sales.

 

[Lord Snotty]

Kameo fights also give Mortal Kombat a chance to get fighters from other properties who have been squeamish about having DLC in this game because they don't want to see their characters disembowelled. You could see Chun Li as a Kameo fighter, for instance.

 

[Amirluc]

Kameo fights also give Mortal Kombat a chance to get fighters from other properties who have been squeamish about having DLC in this game because they don't want to see their characters disembowelled. You could see Chun Li as a Kameo fighter, for instance.

Yeah I’ve definitely thought about that since I’ve been playing the sf6 beta lol
Ryu or ken could be kameos and not get their heads ripped off

 

[Ilthuain]

I'm wondering how many moves a Kameo will have., how you activate them, and what the cost will be.

My guess is that there will be some type of resource, like the MK11 autofilling bar, that will be used exclusively for Kameos. Each Kameo will have ~3 abilities, some will be attacks, some will be buffs.

Hopefully there will be a good way to map Kameo to a button + direction, unlike the tower abilities in MK11.

Also, can Kameos be hit before they do their move? So many questions!

 

[Lord Snotty]

I hope Kameo Fighters are basically the same control style and moveset as fighters from the original MK Trilogy, with upper/lower punches and kicks, combos, special moves and a run button.

 

[superbn0va]

Why y’all always want characters that don’t fit the setting? Doom guy like wtf How does a doom guy fit the mortal kombat setting?

 

[BecomingDeath13]

Why y’all always want characters that don’t fit the setting? Doom guy like wtf How does a doom guy fit the mortal kombat setting? Lol

I want Patrick Star and he has a finishing move where he says "No This is Patrick"

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Why y’all always want characters that don’t fit the setting? Doom guy like wtf How does a doom guy fit the mortal kombat setting?

Mortal Kombat has ninjas, robots, gods, sci-fi soldiers, modern day soldiers, wizards, humans with metal arms, 4 armed dragon men and fucking horse people. There is nothing at all that doesn't fit the setting.