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F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I'm the new dad, where I wear khaki shorts with a tucked in polo and some sweet sandals. Or my ironic t-shirt showing off my arrested development.
Jesus sandals and khakis shorts with a polo are like a timeless dad thing though, you're already fitting in with the other dads. Now you just need to drink IPAs or Belgian Whites and drive a Corvette and you're solidified in dadhood
 

Marlow

Champion
Jesus sandals and khakis shorts with a polo are like a timeless dad thing though, you're already fitting in with the other dads. Now you just need to drink IPAs or Belgian Whites and drive a Corvette and you're solidified in dadhood
My new hobbies are wine tasting, brewing my own beer, and complaining about how sports stars just aren't as good nowadays as they used to be.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
My new hobbies are wine tasting, brewing my own beer, and complaining about how sports stars just aren't as good nowadays as they used to be.
Swap brewing beer with watching all the old early 2000's shows we never got to watch back then, and this is what me and my Poppa do on a regular basis.

Our generation of Dadhood is going to be the new best generation. All of the dad jokes and sandals over socks, none of the institutional prejudice or dysfunction.
Give me a bottle of Prosecco and someone well-versed enough in baseball to argue the merits of the late 90's Yankees dynasty with, and I will dad myself to death.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Not every problem is a result of virulent anti-blackness, but your first instinct probably shouldn't be "lol what victims".
Albeit people have largely conducted themselves appropriately in this thread, neither should be nefarious intent or accusations of prejudice and racism for suggesting certain solutions. Most of us have been a part of this diverse community for almost two decades. If any of us were surreptitiously racist, I would assume that the word would have come out by now.

Edit: Could anyone please with some experience in or connection to Chicago please explain to a white guy who lives in a safe suburb why incidents such as this one and this one keep occurring on a daily basis? What are some solutions to fix the violence? I read stories of dads walking their daughters to school getting shot and murdered, which is painful to read.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Edit: Could anyone please with some experience in or connection to Chicago please explain to a white guy who lives in a safe suburb why incidents such as this one and this one keep occurring on a daily basis? What are some solutions to fix the violence? I read stories of dads walking their daughters to school getting shot and murdered, which is painful to read.
Highly concentrated poverty, compressed into certain neighborhoods (mostly the South Side and West Side) and lots of gang retaliation/territorial warfare.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-shooting-chicago-violence-police-20180807-story.html
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Highly concentrated poverty, compressed into certain neighborhoods (mostly the South Side and West Side) and lots of gang retaliation/territorial warfare.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-shooting-chicago-violence-police-20180807-story.html
It's like that on the rez too, high poverty and substance abuse rates are a natural breeding ground for violent crime. Even in the less densely populated areas of the rez that seems to ring true, it is very easy for serial killers to operate out there, there are always several straight up disappearances of people, they're just randomly gone. Scary shit.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Albeit people have largely conducted themselves appropriately in this thread, neither should be nefarious intent or accusations of prejudice and racism for suggesting certain solutions. Most of us have been a part of this diverse community for almost two decades. If any of us were surreptitiously racist, I would assume that the word would have come out by now.
I didn't accuse anyone of that. Bad faith, yes, but being deliberately anti-black, no. That said, you can be part of a diverse community, not actually feel superior to black people, and still express anti-black sentiment. FChamp did just that.
 

MrArcher15

Kombatant
turns out thomas lane, the officer some people were saying deserves the least punishment because he was a "rookie" and was "just following orders" pulled a gun on george floyd, cursed at him and touched him multiple times. Oh he also forced him out of his vehicle. None of this with any explanation might I add. I hope they all rot in jail.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
I didn't accuse anyone of that. Bad faith, yes, but being deliberately anti-black, no. That said, you can be part of a diverse community, not actually feel superior to black people, and still express anti-black sentiment. FChamp did just that.
He did, but does expressing anti-black sentiment for the sake of humor make someone a racist? Dave Chappelle has made a fortunate out of stereotyping Whites, Blacks, Latinos, and Asians and nobody believes that he is a racist. There is obviously an audience that enjoys this type of comedy. Filipino Champ has always been a provocateur who loves assuming the role of a villain. After being a part of this community for more than two decades, he was eventually going to say or do something that led to severe consequences, and the watermelon picture that he posted was the last straw that broke the camel's back. Do I think he despises black people? No. Do I think what he posted was ignorant and insensitive? Obviously. Do I think he should be exiled from the community and banned perennially? No.

There is also a lack of consistency as far as consequences are concerned. Mike Z, whom, and please correct me if I am mistaken, you and Sonic Fox have defended for making the "he cannot breathe" comment, has only been banned from Combo Breaker 2021 while Filipino Champ has been barred from all Capcom-sponsored tournaments. I see a double standard, especially when anyone can make an apology seem sincere.

Edit: Any comments on Nick Cannon's recent anti-Semitic and anti-white comments?

"In Cannon's hour-plus podcast, he and Griffin contend that Black people are the true Hebrews and that Jews have usurped their identity.

Cannon then segues into a discussion of skin color — “And I’m going to say this carefully,” he begins — to allege that people who lack sufficient melanin are “a little less.”

Those without dark skin have a “deficiency” that historically forced them to act out of fear and commit acts of violence to survive, he said.

“They had to be savages,” Cannon said, adding that he was referring to “Jewish people, white people, Europeans,” among others
."

LOL!

I say let the man go. He should not have been fired from ViacomCBS.
 
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KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
He did, but does expressing anti-black sentiment for the sake of humor make someone a racist? Dave Chappelle has made a fortunate out of stereotyping Whites, Blacks, Latinos, and Asians and nobody believes that he is a racist. There is obviously an audience that enjoys this type of comedy. Filipino Champ has always been a provocateur who loves assuming the role of a villain. After being a part of this community for more than two decades, he was eventually going to say or do something that led to severe consequences, and the watermelon picture that he posted was the last straw that broke the camel's back. Do I think he despises black people? No. Do I think what he posted was ignorant and insensitive? Obviously. Do I think he should be exiled from the community and banned perennially? No.

There is also a lack of consistency as far as consequences are concerned. Mike Z, whom, and please correct me if I am mistaken, you and Sonic Fox have defended for making the "he cannot breathe" comment, has only been banned from Combo Breaker 2021 while Filipino Champ has been barred from all Capcom-sponsored tournaments. I see a double standard, especially when anyone can make an apology seem sincere.

Edit: Any comments on Nick Cannon's recent anti-Semitic and anti-white comments?

"In Cannon's hour-plus podcast, he and Griffin contend that Black people are the true Hebrews and that Jews have usurped their identity.

Cannon then segues into a discussion of skin color — “And I’m going to say this carefully,” he begins — to allege that people who lack sufficient melanin are “a little less.”

Those without dark skin have a “deficiency” that historically forced them to act out of fear and commit acts of violence to survive, he said.

“They had to be savages,” Cannon said, adding that he was referring to “Jewish people, white people, Europeans,” among others
."

LOL!

I say let the man go. He should not have been fired from ViacomCBS.
I think for Champ, a lot of the reactions to his comments are the chickens coming home to roost. Champ has made it his entire goal to build a brand off of being offensive, and it's clear that many organizers in the community have no tolerance for it anymore. I think Capcom put themselves between a rock and a hard place because they have made it clear that anti-black comments are worth indefinite bans. I don't agree, and I think the tournaments that chose to say he wasn't wanted at their tournaments for at least a year was a stronger response, but I recognize the difficult position they were put in. Indefinite bans for everything is not the answer, but until there is guidelines and process for determining that, it will be in this messy middle area

As for the second thing, I have never defended that, and I know that that is some horseshit you and others have been saying, so no, that never happened. What I was critical of was the onus that SonicFox needed to performatively end his personal friendship with Mike after having condemned him and saying he would agree with whatever punishment the community decided. The idea that the ultimate measure of whether or not Mike "got away" with what he was saying hinged on whether or not a close personal friend publically told people that they were totally not besties anymore was distracting and odd.

What Mike said was really bad, worse than what Champ said by far, but I know he's not in the same position as Champ. Champ is a frequent tourney goer with aims to compete for the biggest prizes, while Mike is a developer who really only shows up to Combo Breaker for its Skullgirls tournament and very little else. Capcom saying he would be banned would just be performative, because it would effectively mean nothing. The Skullgirls community, on their own, all agreed that he will have nothing to do with any of those events, which are the events he actually does attend. Arguably, they've had equal punishment when it comes to what parts of the community they actually engage with. The fact that Mike is also dealing with a long history of making women uncomfortable is just more icing on the cake. I don't know why that's a "double standard," both are not going to be participating in their FGC circles for some time.

I think Nick Cannon invited a known anti-semite on his show, that him and his guest engaged in anti-semitic banter and sharing of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, and if a corporation decided that wasn't befitting what they wanted to have on their platform that is their decision. Nick Cannon is worth $60,000,000 and still felt he could be publicly and loudly anti-semitic, so I think he will be alright.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I think for Champ, a lot of the reactions to his comments are the chickens coming home to roost. Champ has made it his entire goal to build a brand off of being offensive, and it's clear that many organizers in the community have no tolerance for it anymore. I think Capcom put themselves between a rock and a hard place because they have made it clear that anti-black comments are worth indefinite bans. I don't agree, and I think the tournaments that chose to say he wasn't wanted at their tournaments for at least a year was a stronger response, but I recognize the difficult position they were put in. Indefinite bans for everything is not the answer, but until there is guidelines and process for determining that, it will be in this messy middle area

As for the second thing, I have never defended that, and I know that that is some horseshit you and others have been saying, so no, that never happened. What I was critical of was the onus that SonicFox needed to performatively end his personal friendship with Mike after having condemned him and saying he would agree with whatever punishment the community decided. The idea that the ultimate measure of whether or not Mike "got away" with what he was saying hinged on whether or not a close personal friend publically told people that they were totally not besties anymore was distracting and odd.

What Mike said was really bad, worse than what Champ said by far, but I know he's not in the same position as Champ. Champ is a frequent tourney goer with aims to compete for the biggest prizes, while Mike is a developer who really only shows up to Combo Breaker for its Skullgirls tournament and very little else. Capcom saying he would be banned would just be performative, because it would effectively mean nothing. The Skullgirls community, on their own, all agreed that he will have nothing to do with any of those events, which are the events he actually does attend. Arguably, they've had equal punishment when it comes to what parts of the community they actually engage with. The fact that Mike is also dealing with a long history of making women uncomfortable is just more icing on the cake. I don't know why that's a "double standard," both are not going to be participating in their FGC circles for some time.

I think Nick Cannon invited a known anti-semite on his show, that him and his guest engaged in anti-semitic banter and sharing of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, and if a corporation decided that wasn't befitting what they wanted to have on their platform that is their decision. Nick Cannon is worth $60,000,000 and still felt he could be publicly and loudly anti-semitic, so I think he will be alright.
Not that I disagree with f Champs ban, but it would be hard to come up with guidelines for something subjective like what is offensive or too far, no? I'm not saying you're suggesting otherwise even, just curious what you think about that.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
As for the second thing, I have never defended that, and I know that that is some horseshit you and others have been saying, so no, that never happened. What I was critical of was the onus that SonicFox needed to performatively end his personal friendship with Mike after having condemned him and saying he would agree with whatever punishment the community decided. The idea that the ultimate measure of whether or not Mike "got away" with what he was saying hinged on whether or not a close personal friend publically told people that they were totally not besties anymore was distracting and odd.
Fair enough. I will correct the record on the next podcast.

I think Nick Cannon invited a known anti-semite on his show, that him and his guest engaged in anti-semitic banter and sharing of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, and if a corporation decided that wasn't befitting what they wanted to have on their platform that is their decision. Nick Cannon is worth $60,000,000 and still felt he could be publicly and loudly anti-semitic, so I think he will be alright.
I understand and agree. However, first of all, I would argue that Nick Cannon has no political power. He represents no one. Second of all, the fact that the company fired him does nothing but promote cancel culture. He still believes what he believes. He is merely sorry that he was caught. Third of all, he is partially right. Europeans have acted like "savages" in the past killing each other and those who look different from them for thousands of years. He is ignorantly omitting the inconvenient fact that other races have done the same, though. Finally, one of his ex wives, Mariah Carey, has Irish ancestry because of her mother. She is half white. Nobody can possibly believe that the man is a racist. In a discussion, conversation, and debate, people sometimes make ignorant claims, which does not mean that they should always face severe consequences. The culture and mentality on this issue must change.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Not that I disagree with f Champs ban, but it would be hard to come up with guidelines for something subjective like what is offensive or too far, no? I'm not saying you're suggesting otherwise even, just curious what you think about that.
It would be very difficult, and putting together guidelines or a code of conduct is a difficult process that requires lots of people of different backgrounds to really get the best sense of what is necessary to include. The only hard line you could draw at is people publicly using slurs, and after that it would get dicier. I think ultimately the safety of the community should be first and foremost; a person who stupidly says a slur but is equally quick to apologize for it is likely not someone who would continue to harm a community through their actions. If you pull a CeroBlast or a Champ, however, and apologize but then just as quickly double-down on what you said or dispute the response to what you did after you apologize for it, that's typically a bad sign
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
I would argue that Nick Cannon has no political power. He represents no one. Second of all, the fact that the company fired him does nothing but promote cancel culture. He still believes what he believes. He is merely sorry that he was caught. Third of all, he is partially right. Europeans have acted like "savages" in the past killing each other and those who look different from them for thousands of years. He is ignorantly omitting the inconvenient fact that other races have done the same, though. Finally, one of his ex wives, Mariah Carey, has Irish ancestry because of her mother. She is half white. Nobody can possibly believe that the man is a racist. In a discussion, conversation, and debate, people sometimes make ignorant claims, which does not mean that they should always face severe consequences. The culture and mentality on this issue must change.
Nick Cannon doesn't have political power to actually affect policy, but he is one of the more well-known celebrities in the world and has about 5 million Twitter followers alone. It's safe to say that given his wealth and status, his platform reaches far more ears than 99% of the population. To say that he has no power is ludicrous.

No corporation or even organization can "force" a change of heart. Life is not Persona 5. All they can do is decide whether or not they want someone like that associated with their organization, brand, etc. Viacom is an awful company and for as much money they have invested in the prison-industrial complex it is profoundly foolish to believe they are turning over a new leaf or something with this performative gesture. Nevertheless, I agree that anti-Semitic remarks such as what Cannon said have no business being on the airwaves, and it would be bad for business for anyone.

It is very childish to assume that hateful rhetoric stops and starts with complete separation of the races. There is a fallacy that many people believe where racist behavior immediately can be answered by whether or not someone "has black friends," as an example, or marries a woman of mixed race. Racists have been doing that since Thomas Jefferson took his slave to his bed and fathered her six children. Jefferson was a racist by any stretch of the imagination: he believed that the black race was inferior and although he disagreed with their enslavement (despite participating in it his whole life with literally hundreds of them), he did not think they should ever be on the same level as whites. Racism is not as simple as the Klan member who doesn't believe the races should be mixed, it comes in a variety of forms, and even racists can be hypocrites.

Cannon is a grown man with access to Google, much like all of us. The fact that he has been a devout fan of Louis Farrakhan, whom him and his guest took their rhetoric from, and was incapable of knowing Farrakhan's reputation as an anti-Semite as well as the anti-Semitic origins of many of the conspiracy theories he clearly believes in, is ridiculous. This is not a teenager making a dumb tweet, this was a man with a very large audience who was very aware of the bullshit he was saying and still felt the need to peddle theories that have literally gotten people killed. There is a body count associated with the kind of rhetoric that Cannon was spewing, and that can't be just be waved away with "but he didn't know."

I won't even acknowledge the "but many non-European nations were savages" bit because you're walking into the territory that a lot of morons make and I'd advise you to cut it out before you piss someone off.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Since we're mentioning Nick Cannon's comments, it feels relevant to bring up Desean Jackson. Jackson is a veteran NFL wide receiver who isn't known for political takes. Recently, he posted quotes from Louis Farrakhan(popular black civil rights activist but unabashed anti-semite) before posting misattributed Hitler quotes from whatever book he was reading: (not full page he shared, just what he personally highlighted)

"Because the white Jews knows that the Negroes are the real Children of Israel and to keep Americas secret the Jews will blackmail America. They will extort America, their plan for world domination won’t work if the Negroes know who they were. The white citizens of America will be terrified to know that all this time they’ve been mistreating and discriminating and lynching the Children of Israel.”

Other players defended Farrakhan and Jackson if not defending the actual comments, Malcolm Jenkins was criticized for a dismissive video about it, some players and talking heads criticized the lack of outrage. Jackson has apologized, been fined(possibly more to come) by the Eagles and has promised to do things such as educate himself, visit Auschwitz, he's since talked to Holocaust survivors, etc. So rather then fire the guy in response, they demanded reparations of sorts, and it seems like he's educating himself. This issue also shined light on the surprising amount of anti-Semitism in the black community, particularly surrounding the troubling figure of Farrakhan.

I think the Eagles decision was the right one, they gave a guy without a bad history a second chance and his situation brings awarenesses to the issue. But on the other hand, if Desean Jackson was a third string guard, a less important player at a position they are more comfortable with, then would they have been willing to make this decision? And it's not unfair to say that these comments would have been received even more poorly if Desean was white.

I think the Eagles, though motivated by financial reasons, made the right choice here. We should encourage repentance in those who are willing to try.
 

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
It's like that on the rez too, high poverty and substance abuse rates are a natural breeding ground for violent crime. Even in the less densely populated areas of the rez that seems to ring true, it is very easy for serial killers to operate out there, there are always several straight up disappearances of people, they're just randomly gone. Scary shit.
Need to leave a note for Hector.