Enter the Bane: General Discussion

[Khaoz77]

Ive been following this thread closely and I pretty much agree. Bane is lacking just in terms of neutral. When we get in, we can force certain things but if the opponent doesn't care, the matchups become harder.

Current;y (I don't have the game), I'm having some problems with Batman and Scarecrow. I don't really know how to realiably punish them both other than a charged up B3 just to get them off me or a Desprate D1

 

[RWDY Nori]

Me personally, I truly believe he has a good neutral it just took a little while (for me at least, not sure about the rest of you) to put it all together (and even that is still a major work in progress). I'm winning a lot more than I'm not so far lol.

To me, it's all about conditioning them first with BF2 (with trait). This is THE "stop pressing buttons" move. Thanks to @Wetdoba for opening my eyes to how to use this move as I can't say enough good things about it.

This is a fast overhead in the neutral so you can't just duck D1 or B2 all day. Bane TRULY has scary 5050s now. He has one of the best dashes in the game, so there is that too.

 

[TheJaquio]

Anybody noticed the bug where on clash or getting super'd by an enemy your venom debuff will completely reset and you'll have to wait the time out again?

Super fun.

Bane has his problems sure, but this IMO needs to be fixed. It makes no sense that if you are in debuff and you hit a transition, have a super done to you, you clash, or your opponent clashes, then you are punished with a brand new debuff. God forbid any of these things happen at the end of a level 3 debuff, because then you are in debuff for 20 seconds straight.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

At first I thought you meant it puts you in debuff from the buff, which I think is by design. But it actually resets the debuff to its beginning? Oh my.

Yup, it resets on clash, transition, and supers. I had a match the other night where I was down quite a bit, got my opponent to the corner and went ham slowly using all levels of venom up to level 3 to try to clutch a comeback. Once it ran out, I was hitting them with multiple mixups and burning meter in them to waste time so I could get my venom back. With literally .5 seconds left till my venom came back (out of level 3 debuff) I got hit by a yolo batman super. When it was over trucking me with damage, it reset debuff back to the start. Cost me the match.

 

[big_aug]

The debuff refresh on clash, super, etc is a major problem. I think that needs to go.

The problem I have with Bane right now is that we can't spend meter on any specials for a combo. There isn't much incentive to really avoid them. It takes 2-3 specials to equal a full combo. The opponent gets multiple chances to guess right and eating a couple specials isn't that bad. I really wish we could mb bf2 for a combo being that it's completely unsafe.

His reach seems pretty poor to most other characters. Most of the cast seems to have a string that can whiff on the first one or two hits and still advances them far enough to make contact with the last hits in the string. B23 is the only advancing string we have and it's punishable on block.

I feel like I'm getting out reached by many characters. It feels like I'm playing against zoners when they don't even have projectiles because I have to be so cautious advancing. Our D1 range feels like the range others have on their normals. It feels hard to even stay at D1 range sometimes.

These are just some anectdotal observations and may not really be true. It feels tough though.

Edit: lots of feelings in this post lol

 

[RYX]

Bane has his problems sure, but this IMO needs to be fixed. It makes no sense that if you are in debuff and you hit a transition, have a super done to you, you clash, or your opponent clashes, then you are punished with a brand new debuff. God forbid any of these things happen at the end of a level 3 debuff, because then you are in debuff for 20 seconds straight.

This isn't unique to bane, FYI. Any trait that's active or on cooldown during transition/clash/super will get put on cooldown or reset on cooldown.

doesn't make it any less needing to be fixed, though.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

This isn't unique to bane, FYI. Any trait that's active or on cooldown during transition/clash/super will get put on cooldown or reset on cooldown.

doesn't make it any less needing to be fixed, though.

Ah really? Guess it just hurts us the most then. Good to know its most likely not a bug, just a design choice.

 

[chief713]

I feel like I'm getting out reached by many characters. It feels like I'm playing against zoners when they don't even have projectiles because I have to be so cautious advancing. Our D1 range feels like the range others have on their normals. It feels hard to even stay at D1 range sometimes.

These are just some anectdotal observations and may not really be true. It feels tough though.

D1 outranges most stuff in the game. It's hard to avoid it in neutral and it's +17 on hit which means you get a mixup between lows (B1, B2), overheads (F2D, BF2), command grab and 112.

The only punishable gap here is between D1 (+17 on hit) and F2D (24f startup) which is 7 frames. If they start abusing that and try to poke after D1, they're eating any of those other options free.

 

[big_aug]

D1 outranges most stuff in the game. It's hard to avoid it in neutral and it's +17 on hit which means you get a mixup between lows (B1, B2), overheads (F2D, BF2), command grab and 112.

The only punishable gap here is between D1 (+17 on hit) and F2D (24f startup) which is 7 frames. If they start abusing that and try to poke after D1, they're eating any of those other options free.

I'll have to work on it more. I didn't realize I can get a B2 in after a D1. I haven't tested enough shit so my experiences aren't worth much. Opponent blocking low then high or neutral jumping is very common after a d1. Obviously I'm conditioning them well with the bf2 and command grabs. The B2 or f2d mixup
should help a lot.

F2d is the best because you can freely cancel to command grab no matter what. Man, if only it had armor at level 1. That would be insane.

 

[chief713]

If they like to jump after D1, F2D catches them midair lolol. Abuse that shit man. And honestly, I've just about replaced BF2 with F2D. The only time I really use the former is if the opponent is waking up with something safe and unthrowable.

 

[TheJaquio]

This isn't unique to bane, FYI. Any trait that's active or on cooldown during transition/clash/super will get put on cooldown or reset on cooldown.

doesn't make it any less needing to be fixed, though.

I have noticed this with others too yeah. Scarecrow's trait even stops between rounds and then you have to reactivate. Poor design choice imo.

 

[RYX]

also let's talk about how the objectively best batman villain is getting ripped off in story mode

why is the criminal mastermind who put bats out of commission relegated to being a lackey jobber for 2 games and given zero character progression. this dumb bitch harley is gonna get shoved in my face non stop in every form of Batman media, but Bane is just the guy who peaked in high school and won't stop reminding everyone about it

come on NRS

 

[RWDY Nori]

Bane has his problems sure, but this IMO needs to be fixed. It makes no sense that if you are in debuff and you hit a transition, have a super done to you, you clash, or your opponent clashes, then you are punished with a brand new debuff. God forbid any of these things happen at the end of a level 3 debuff, because then you are in debuff for 20 seconds straight.

A Quick fix for this would be to extend the time of our venom if caught in a clash. Either way I agree it needs to be addressed, there is no logical reason for this

 

[big_aug]

Bane is the only character that has a negative applied to his trait use right? I see why it exists. Some characters are insane with trait and being able to clash and shit to get it up again right away would be a thing. Bane gets fucked though.

 

[RYX]

Bane is the only character that has a negative applied to his trait use right? I see why it exists. Some characters are insane with trait and being able to clash and shit to get it up again right away would be a thing. Bane gets fucked though.

Bane has the indisputably best trait in the game even with the drawbacks, fair that it has a drawback

 

[big_aug]

Bane has the indisputably best trait in the game even with the drawbacks, fair that it has a drawback

I don't know if it's indisputable. It's best for him for sure. With drawbacks and on his character, it certainly isn't objectively the best. He has to have it or he doesn't work as a character.

And I wasn't saying the drawback isn't necessary. I was saying he's the only one that can potentially be debuffed AND have that debuff extended with clash/super.

I think the trait should only have two of the three drawbacks. Pick two. All three is just too much.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Haven't played the game yet, but wouldn't an easy fix be to make the trait reset but with level 1 cooldown instead?

And isn't a stupidly punitive Level 3 cooldown deja vu from the first game? From what I've seen, the speed reduction isn't as bad, which is nice.

No overhead punch looked bad at first and you're all confirming how bad it really is. I guess the elbow isn't the magic OTG move I was hoping for.

 

[TheJaquio]

Haven't played the game yet, but wouldn't an easy fix be to make the trait reset but with level 1 cooldown instead?

And isn't a stupidly punitive Level 3 cooldown deja vu from the first game? From what I've seen, the speed reduction isn't as bad, which is nice.

No overhead punch looked bad at first and you're all confirming how bad it really is. I guess the elbow isn't the magic OTG move I was hoping for.

Cinematics resetting trait to level 1 debuff is exactly how it worked in Injustice 1, which I would be perfectly fine with.

 

[Legion DC]

Ok. So, I've been working on other characters since launch. Now, I'm ready to work on Bane.
However, I haven't played with him, yet. I just checked his data.
Tell me he doesn't really have a 20 start up frame command grab, bro. How are y'all tick throwing with that crap?! It's impossible. Opponents dont have to jump , duck or anything, they can simply stuff the grapple with a nice jab. Bane needs a buff. this is the slowest command grab I've ever seen. smh

 

[RYX]

However, I haven't played with him, yet.

this is really all you needed to say

bane's command grab is the slowest because it advances him and he can put armor on it. also he ticks just fine, he has more tick throws than anyone else in the game

 

[Legion DC]

Hmm. I've seen people play Bane and watched Bane videos but, I never checked out his data.
I'll continue to keep an eye on him and stuff. Anyhow, I'll see what Swamp Thing is like

 

[Zeugirdor]

Would you guys say bane is in a good spot?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Would you guys say bane is in a good spot?

No. But more due to other characters having things they shouldn't. Zoners should not be building meter as advantageously as they do over the defender. Characters with crazy backdashes should have some way to be punished harder. Cooldown on traits post super/clash/transition unfairly hurts him when he is level 2 or higher debuff.

I do wish that his damn elbow was better. I need to lab some time this week to figure out a flow chart for wake-up timings for punishing this stuff. Just been too busy lately to lab like I used to. Getting old .

 

[countrypistol]

What are your feelings on the following?

As I have issues getting confirming b23 tick into the command grab on block consistently online, I've been starting off matches with b21, and then doing b23-grab when they start blocking the overhead consistently. B21 is safe, and on hit you get a free dash, a lot of corner carry and a mix up. The same goes for f2d2. Of course, you get significantly less damage as these strings can't be canceled, but as conditioning tools (combined with d1xxbf2) and positioning tools, they're excellent.

Basically, I'm getting success using the low damage positioning tools and setting up my mix ups, but considering that b23-grab/combo is a doable confirm with practice, is this a less than optimal stratergy?

 

[big_aug]

What are your feelings on the following?

As I have issues getting confirming b23 tick into the command grab on block consistently online, I've been starting off matches with b21, and then doing b23-grab when they start blocking the overhead consistently. B21 is safe, and on hit you get a free dash, a lot of corner carry and a mix up. The same goes for f2d2. Of course, you get significantly less damage as these strings can't be canceled, but as conditioning tools (combined with d1xxbf2) and positioning tools, they're excellent.

Basically, I'm getting success using the low damage positioning tools and setting up my mix ups, but considering that b23-grab/combo is a doable confirm with practice, is this a less than optimal stratergy?

Probably better to do that. It's very easy to just jump out of the command grab or just jab Bane on the b23 tick throw. It's so risky using bf2 that if I were playing against me, I'd play to avoid the grab most of time. Eating a few elbows isn't that much damage.

Bf2 is just so damn risky. It feels really bad getting blown up off it. The risk/reward just doesn't seem to be there for that move and unfortunately it seems essential to use it.