Enter the Bane: General Discussion

[M.D.]

I am having a hard time picturing how in the walkback meta footsies you would actually hit a d1, since the main problem of this character as I see it is not being able to keep people staying put, as he could in inj1 with the threat of double punch.

I also cheered for every bane at Evo and every major I have the privilege to see on stream, but they are always overwhelmed by the other characters so much that I can't see how they could even apply that pressure. Ok, they get it once or twice per match, then get destroyed.

Why? My oppinion is that the options are too fragmented and there are too much guesses to guess right to get things going.

The tech you posted is really good, don't get me wrong, and you are really bringing out the best of the character out. What I'm saying is that I don't think it's enough for him to push up the ranks.

Bane will always be a newbie killer, but when put up on the big scene, he simply does not have enough. He didn't have enough even in inj1 with double punch and safe dp, I can't see how he has enough now.

Sure, I'm an useless casual who only comments what he sees from pro players, but I find it hard to believe that the character is godlike and nobody is playing him right. It couldn't be that easy could it really?

 

[Wetdoba]

The fact that D1 is a low is what stops them from walking back.... you know how Lanterns B1 is so good in footsies because it catches people walking back. Thats what lows do, they arent just 1 of 2 options in a 50-50.

And no it is not easy playing Bane, it is god damn satisfying though. I beat Tyrants Superman in igau at nec in tournament and that was back when I was a scrub and igau was my first competitive fighter. Ill be at summer jam and I plan on showing Bane off then

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

So the response to me showing how to beat every option on knockdown except 1 is to complain about how hard it is to condition people to do what you want lol. Not to mentiom the entire point of the buffs was to give us better risk reward on armor and make our safe pressure easier to start...

@16 Bit you better not be listening to these retards, they dont deserve Bane

You don't have to be a dick, considering all I was doing was trying to foster more discussion about the upcoming patch. Clearly, my angle was that OTHER characters got some huge changes, and my prediction is that these changes for Bane won't do much to improve our current and future matchups, though I'm still hopeful and will keep griding the character.

Unless you weren't directing that response towards me.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I would direct you and any other Banes complaining about his conditioning and safety to this tech instead

https://testyourmight.com/threads/jailing-pressure-off-d1-on-hit.64651/

Gaurunteed safe pressure off D1 on hit. Think you can handle playing footsies for 5 seconds and hitting them with 1 long range low poke before getting gaurunteed armored mix up attempts and plus frames or is that too much to ask? Not to mention the buffs will make this easier to do. Any Bane not doing this is playing the character wrong, period.

Of course I do this, I've been playing Bane since Inj1 and I already knew how valuable his d1 was in that game.
Serious problems to consider:
1. Atrocious defense without venom, defensive options WITH venom are generally punishable, even with a sped up s1, he's still going to have problems because it's a high. This wasn't a problem in Injustice 1 because he had venom all the time and he had 2 safe specials, one of which was also fast. What he should've been given is a quick fast d1, and his old d1 with a different d+f1 input just like Brainiac.
2. Oki really isn't that special. Backdash covers everything on knockdown except for d1 check and yolo elbow, after getting hit by the yolo elbow that's even more - on whiff than Kenshi's teleflurry, you'll be so far back that the neutral is reset.

His awful defense is a massive problem, it's not like Bane is this offensive powerhouse that just MAULS you when he gets in, like the Flash who just lmoa 50/50s like a retard. Bane thrives off of his oki, which really isn't that dirty.

 

[Wetdoba]

You don't have to be a dick, considering all I was doing was trying to foster more discussion about the upcoming patch. Clearly, my angle was that OTHER characters got some huge changes, and my prediction is that these changes for Bane won't do much to improve our current and future matchups, though I'm still hopeful and will keep griding the character.

Unless you weren't directing that response towards me.

That wasnt for you, i didnt even see your comment until now, must have posted at the same time. Im also curious about Banes match ups coming up as some are certain to shift around a bit but none of that is even certain. Supes and bladam probably even now because they get reduced damage while we get more damage and health and now supes is as free on knockdown as bladam. Atro will probably be cleanly in our favor as it just going to be even more tine without trait for him when Bane bodies him. Aqua may be a 7-3 now lol. Canary probably wont change much but faster S1 means easier punish on canary drop. WW I am worried about tho because she already danced around us in the nuetral and will even more now while still negating Banes best oki options. Batmam match up probably not going to change either really. Overall though it looks very good on the horizon, I just get heated when people claim that he should just be able to loop safe overhead meterless armor on block again rather than put in the work and learn how to use all his tools.

Of course I do this, I've been playing Bane since Inj1 and I already knew how valuable his d1 was in that game.
Serious problems to consider:
1. Atrocious defense without venom, defensive options WITH venom are generally punishable, even with a sped up s1, he's still going to have problems because it's a high. This wasn't a problem in Injustice 1 because he had venom all the time and he had 2 safe specials, one of which was also fast. What he should've been given is a quick fast d1, and his old d1 with a different d+f1 input just like Brainiac.
2. Oki really isn't that special. Backdash covers everything on knockdown except for d1 check and yolo elbow, after getting hit by the yolo elbow that's even more - on whiff than Kenshi's teleflurry, you'll be so far back that the neutral is reset.

His awful defense is a massive problem, it's not like Bane is this offensive powerhouse that just MAULS you when he gets in, like the Flash who just lmoa 50/50s like a (soap bar in my mouth). Bane thrives off of his oki, which really isn't that dirty.

1. His defensive options are designed to be this way, hes not suppose to just 6 frame poke his problems away on debuff. He actually has to, you know, BLOCK every once in awhile. That was one of the reasons he was busted in igau along with safe just do it armor, he never had to block because like you said, he basically always had venom. He still has safe/plus armor with mb f3 and still has pushblocks, and bane is one of the least meter dependant characters in the game, save meter for debuff.

Also his venom armor absolutely has to be unsafe. He has the ONLY standing reversal in the game. He is the only character that can blow up certain gaps while others cannot. And he has probably the best anti air options in the game. His armor just needs to be used on reaction more when theres no risk of being punished. Obv you can still yolo armor on a read but he doesnt have to do that everytime.

2. Whatthe hell are you talking about here? Command grab catches backdashes all the time and always has. Bane players know this and non-Bane players know it even better because they get salty AF when they get grabbed out of backdash lol. What makes his oki so great is that he can cover multiple optiins at once. Example against Dr Fate would be just raw commans grab, beats both wake up glyph, wake up back dash, and blocking and then puts him back in the same situation afterwards. You really dont understand Bane much if you think he doesnt have good oki or mixing on Flashes level...

 

[thlityoursloat]

His defense is already crippled when he's in debuff, a 6 frame poke wouldn't be too powerful considering he's in a weakened state, and that he wouldn't get full combos off of them like a good chunk of the cast. Push blocking is also a HORRIBLE thing to do because that resets the neutral and gives your opponent room to zone and lame him out.
Are you also telling me that's Bane's oki, tick throw setups and corner setups are comparable to that of the Flash? Who has standing 50/50s and +1 crossups into 400-500 damage? For the record, I didn't say his oki is BAD, I just said it isn't exceptional enough to warrant risky defense, his offense is already risky enough and difficult to establish with the strength of zoners.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

That wasnt for you, i didnt even see your comment until now, must have posted at the same time. Im also curious about Banes match ups coming up as some are certain to shift around a bit but none of that is even certain. Supes and bladam probably even now because they get reduced damage while we get more damage and health and now supes is as free on knockdown as bladam. Atro will probably be cleanly in our favor as it just going to be even more tine without trait for him when Bane bodies him. Aqua may be a 7-3 now lol. Canary probably wont change much but faster S1 means easier punish on canary drop. WW I am worried about tho because she already danced around us in the nuetral and will even more now while still negating Banes best oki options. Batmam match up probably not going to change either really. Overall though it looks very good on the horizon, I just get heated when people claim that he should just be able to loop safe overhead meterless armor on block again rather than put in the work and learn how to use all his tools.

Yeah I feel ya. He's definitely a decent character, just not the absolute bully he was post-buffs in IJ1 so we've all had to adjust. My outlook isn't quite as optimistic as yours though; our buffs were good, but almost everyone else's are better. Brainiac, Robin, Dr. Fate, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Black Canary, Flash, Ivy being able to combo off d1, even Grodd with his new trait cancels might be tougher, Cheetah with her added pressure, etc etc. We'll see how it all shakes down though.

Faster S1 is definitely my favorite of the buffs though. That move and the strings following it are pretty key to our success considering how much worse some of our specials are compared to IJ1.

 

[ChoseDeath]

This is exactly what you get when you remove double punch from the character.
Patch will change nothing, as long as there's no safe low damaging, non combo-able move you can spam in them until they finally understand to stay put, he will still be bullied around.

People go ape shit about him being god tier in inj1 (where he also had the safe uppercut mind you) but I didn't see him wrecking batgirl mmh adam superman aquaman bla bla same old 10 more years characters.

I respectfully disagree with us needing the Double Punch back. I do think you should read that thread Wetdoba suggested, as I feel Bane can condition people well.

Now, that being said, I also have gotten many good laughs at all the people who said Bane was god tier in IGAU. They're smoking all the crack. I also think that in this game, there are just some matches Bane isn't gonna win. Our guy has got some vicious 6-4 matches, and I'm sure there are some that are worse than that. But I think the patch will help us, we'll see.

 

[ReD WolF]

I respectfully disagree with us needing the Double Punch back. I do think you should read that thread Wetdoba suggested, as I feel Bane can condition people well.

Now, that being said, I also have gotten many good laughs at all the people who said Bane was god tier in IGAU. They're smoking all the crack. I also think that in this game, there are just some matches Bane isn't gonna win. Our guy has got some vicious 6-4 matches, and I'm sure there are some that are worse than that. But I think the patch will help us, we'll see.

That double punch was fuckin' tasty though... I alt Bane in this game and did so in the previous inj, he definitely has some uphill battles that are frustrating, but I'm optimistic about his future in this game.

 

[M.D.]

I just get heated when people claim that he should just be able to loop safe overhead meterless armor on block again rather than put in the work and learn how to use all his tools.

So basically you'd dig a hole with a shovel instead of an excavator, while others use explosives and still dig the hole faster than you would with the excavator, but it's just that the fact you like physical workouts and you don't mind.

And yes, bringing back safe non stop overhead meterless armor would still have him lose to the top 5.
I'm also fine doing the elbow -10 with pushback so they'll be able to jump or backdash the second one.

On an unrelated note, I also get heated when people claim that ELBOW IS FINE BEING MORE MINUS THAN HIS FREAKIN DP.

 

[ChoseDeath]

That double punch was fuckin' tasty though... I alt Bane in this game and did so in the previous inj, he definitely has some uphill battles that are frustrating, but I'm optimistic about his future in this game.

Oh my god, it so was And I agree, I'm feeling good about him in this game! I think he'll be alright.

 

[Wetdoba]

His defense is already crippled when he's in debuff, a 6 frame poke wouldn't be too powerful considering he's in a weakened state, and that he wouldn't get full combos off of them like a good chunk of the cast. Push blocking is also a HORRIBLE thing to do because that resets the neutral and gives your opponent room to zone and lame him out.
Are you also telling me that's Bane's oki, tick throw setups and corner setups are comparable to that of the Flash? Who has standing 50/50s and +1 crossups into 400-500 damage? For the record, I didn't say his oki is BAD, I just said it isn't exceptional enough to warrant risky defense, his offense is already risky enough and difficult to establish with the strength of zoners.

And he would still have that 6 frame move in venom too which epuld be busted... its not something he needs whatsoever. And resetting the nuetral in debuff is exactly what you want as Bane lol. Would I rather reset the nuetral against cheetah or flash when in debuff or keep them on my ass mixing me into full debuff combos? If someone wants to zone bane in debuff ill let them any time, ill eat chip while i recharge venom over a risking 50% debuff combo anytime.

And yes his corner game is easily as good as flashes. Plus on block armored overheads that can also tick and break super armor while anti airing, safe lows, lows with ticks, low overhead 50-50s into hard knockdowns, 50% unclashable combos and constant unclashable armored specials, plus on block low to overhead block strings, plus on block cross up set ups, ambiguous body splashes...yeah its the best corner control in the game

 

[Wetdoba]

So basically you'd dig a hole with a shovel instead of an excavator, while others use explosives and still dig the hole faster than you would with the excavator, but it's just that the fact you like physical workouts and you don't mind.

And yes, bringing back safe non stop overhead meterless armor would still have him lose to the top 5.
I'm also fine doing the elbow -10 with pushback so they'll be able to jump or backdash the second one.

On an unrelated note, I also get heated when people claim that ELBOW IS FINE BEING MORE MINUS THAN HIS FREAKIN DP.

More like you should understand that you chose to play the big body grappling character not the jack of all trades character. If youre going to pick a character whose archetype is as specific as Banes you just need to understand what you are signing up for. I do

 

[M.D.]

That's called accepting your fate, but fate can be changed you know.

Except the bazzilion-0 bane fate matchup in this game , ofc.

 

[Wetdoba]

That's called accepting your fate, but fate can be changed you know.

Except the bazzilion-0 bane fate matchup in this game , ofc.

That match up is even

 

[Wetdoba]

Ah what so he beats bane 5 out of 10? weird, I thought he lost 10-0

Fates think its the other way around and Fate wins, I thought thats what you were saying. I think its even

 

[M.D.]

Fates think its the other way around and Fate wins, I thought thats what you were saying. I think its even

Well I thought it was 10-0 because with tools like these:

Plus on block armored overheads that can also tick and break super armor while anti airing, safe lows, lows with ticks, low overhead 50-50s into hard knockdowns, 50% unclashable combos and constant unclashable armored specials, plus on block low to overhead block strings, plus on block cross up set ups, ambiguous body splashes...yeah its the best corner control in the game

I can't see how he's not god broken tier top 1 in the game

Sorry couldn't resist setting you up


On a serious note now, I hope they give him a 6 frame standing 1 so he can be broken again with infinites and whatnot.

 

[Wetdoba]

Well I thought it was 10-0 because with tools like these:



I can't see how he's not god broken tier top 1 in the game

Sorry couldn't resist setting you up


On a serious note now, I hope they give him a 6 frame standing 1 so he can be broken again with infinites and whatnot.

Haha ok, well he does get 10-0'd in the corner to be fair

Ill take the 6 which would be rediculous but itll probably be 7, i doubt they would let Bane blow up all the gaps that 6 frame moves can blow up without having to armor

 

[thlityoursloat]

Eh, maybe I'm just being a salty down player, either ways, he's getting buffed so I guess I'll just shut up and keep grinding him out.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Any peeps here familiar with the Robin MU?

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Am I blind or is there no Match up discussion thread? I'll make one, on my next off day, if there isn't.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

Any peeps here familiar with the Robin MU?

With robin you're mainly concerned with what to do when you get him on the ground. Our 11 strings can blow up his uppercut wakeup (don't know the name), or if your just block it when he MB's it just reversal command grab.

His running forward wakeup (don't know the name) can't be beaten by 11 but can be punished on block by 11 I believe, but online its tough so I usually bait it, block, reversal command grab.

In netural I spam d1's and command grab until they get desperate and jump in which you make some reads with d2 or an armored db2. It can be a tough MU when against a good Robin, but it's not bad.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

With robin you're mainly concerned with what to do when you get him on the ground. Our 11 strings can blow up his uppercut wakeup (don't know the name), or if your just block it when he MB's it just reversal command grab.

His running forward wakeup (don't know the name) can't be beaten by 11 but can be punished on block by 11 I believe, but online its tough so I usually bait it, block, reversal command grab.

In netural I spam d1's and command grab until they get desperate and jump in which you make some reads with d2 or an armored db2. It can be a tough MU when against a good Robin, but it's not bad.

Thanks. My main thing is I feel I respect his pressure and offense too much, and don't know when it's "my turn"

 

[Ramuans]

Is it possible to tech roll banes command grab?

 

[Boss Savage]

I've been thinking about picking up Bane. He was my main back in Inj1. How is the patch treating him?