East Coast Throwdown Schedule and Discussion

[Trini_Bwoi]

VGY needs to accept that he is the resident Shao

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Shao beating CyRaiden brings joy and rest to my weary soul

 

[Eji1700]

Well, to be fair, the best Baraka player is not present at this tournament.

Raiden/Cyrax aside, the character diversity is good, especially for the initial version of the game. The kameo diversity, on the other hand, is really bad. According to data thus far, Cyrax and Kung Lao, respectively, have almost been used as much as the rest of the kameos combined. LOL.

I think this is what most people expected though.

Oddly, NRS is probably in a pretty good spot right now. It's really clear that yeah cyrax/lao need some tweaking (if just to get players to use their other options, let alone how they affect various matchups), and their top tiers aren't grossly crushing (i'm kinda rolling my eyes at the Raiden is Aquaman thing. I get it's similar but Aquaman was sooooo much worse).

After watching this, yeah raiden has to catch some sort of nerf outside of cyrax, but hopefully it's a few small ones not a leg breaking.

Baraka looks mostly fine to me? Again if cyrax gets hit and it takes 5-10% off some of his optimal punishes that will probably do it.

Glad to see characters like shao showing off that yeah they have the tools to hack it, and this does confirm that a few, like sub, are going to need some love if you want to see them in top 24.

Edit- haven't had a ton of time to watch so next match caught me off guard. Not shocked at all to see a Geras, but everyone seemed so certain nitara was trash but seems she's still in it.

 

[wsj515]

What are people's thoughts on coaching? It's getting brought up a lot across the various re-streams + the official stream itself - seems like a lot of people (myself included) think it shouldn't really be allowed.

I don't think we've seen many instances where coaching has actually had material effect on a match this tournament, but whenever it happens it feels really lame / wrong considering the nature of the 1 v 1 and adaption nature of FGs, as well as unequal "access" to coaching.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

You can tell BDGs choke rattled him.

 

[Tony at Home]

That was a heart breaker. Good stuff from BDG either way

 

[The Hex Man]

Dangggggggggggggggg. He had it in the bagggg

 

[CrimsonShadow]

What are people's thoughts on coaching? It's getting brought up a lot across the various re-streams + the official stream itself - seems like a lot of people (myself included) think it shouldn't really be allowed.

I don't think we've seen many instances where coaching has actually had material effect on a match this tournament, but whenever it happens it feels really lame / wrong considering the nature of the 1 v 1 and adaption nature of FGs, as well as unequal "access" to coaching.

Imo it's a part of every sport, and it's fine.

The only thing that makes me feel bad is when someone who is newer and maybe goes to their first tournament ends up with like, Sonic Fox walking up to coach their opponent in the set. I don't think that's necessary, and I can imagine how stressful that must be. But overall coaching is an important part of competitive play in nearly all e- and regular sports.

 

[Eji1700]

What are people's thoughts on coaching? It's getting brought up a lot across the various re-streams + the official stream itself - seems like a lot of people (myself included) think it shouldn't really be allowed.

I don't think we've seen many instances where coaching has actually had material effect on a match this tournament, but whenever it happens it feels really lame / wrong considering the nature of the 1 v 1 and adaption nature of FGs, as well as unequal "access" to coaching.

Personally, I've always hated it and would support a total ban on it.

It's not "my team vs your team". It's me vs you. Not you and your 10 closest friends. Or you and your buddies on twitter. Whatever.

You want to lab up before the tournament, be my guest, but the moment the rounds start it's you and me. If you didn't lab the matchup, sucks to be you, no phone a friend because gradma knows how to deal with reptile pressure or whatever.

And honestly thinking about it, it's more than just the knowledge check. Having someone sitting outside the game watching your play getting up and saying "yo man he's catching you with X every time" feels so stupid. It's now just optimal to have a buddy in the crowd who can point out patterns you missed while you were getting your shit rocked.

And yeah, finally, it's a waste of fucking time. It was forever ago, so I don't remember if it was MK or some other FG, but I swear there was a tournament where after every match they were having 2-5 minute sessions. Fuck that. Play the game. This isn't a casual.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

What are people's thoughts on coaching? It's getting brought up a lot across the various re-streams + the official stream itself - seems like a lot of people (myself included) think it shouldn't really be allowed.

I don't think we've seen many instances where coaching has actually had material effect on a match this tournament, but whenever it happens it feels really lame / wrong considering the nature of the 1 v 1 and adaption nature of FGs, as well as unequal "access" to coaching.

I find it very annoying. I have competed in some tournys where my opponent would get some coaching while I had to sit there just like "ok can this match start already?". And it's also always the guy losing that gets the coaching, as to get some outside advantage over the other player - who probably did his homework on the matchup and thus, was winning. In short: I think coaching should not be allowed.

 

[Eji1700]

Edit- haven't had a ton of time to watch so next match caught me off guard. Not shocked at all to see a Geras, but everyone seemed so certain nitara was trash but seems she's still in it.

Alright. Xombat showing it's a matchup knowledge thing.

 

[Immortal]

Coaching was always a part of MK tournaments, like since MK: DA or even earlier, so almost 2 decades old now. Imo it's fine, sometimes it spice things up or make for fun situations.

 

[Ptehu]

have watched some matches live and some matches from replays.

I literally wanted to skip all Raiden/Cyrax & Johnny/Cyrax matches because damn, it's not fun anymore.

Huge props to:

• Deo - playing Nitara on such level was such a breathe of fresh air. And the way he played her, he maked my jaw landing on the floor few times. Admire this guy, really
• BDG (?) - Best Smoke I've seen in my life. Even though half of the time I didn't know what he was doing because he was invisible xD
• Videogamezyo - TERRIFIC SET AGAINST RAIDEN AFTER SWITCHING TO SHAO. Hats off mate!
• Sonic and the other Rain player who unfortunately lost to Johnny/Cyrax - because it was something else than picking characters from S+++ tier and abusing this fucking Raiden's storm cell into Cyrax chip and constant pressure from JC (into Cyrax chip)
• Rewind - you don't need to drop 100 hit combos to win. Just pick Reiko and play smart

 

[wsj515]

Imo it's a part of every sport, and it's fine.

The only thing that makes me feel bad is when someone who is newer and maybe goes to their first tournament ends up with like, Sonic Fox walking up to coach their opponent in the set. I don't think that's necessary, and I can imagine how stressful that must be. But overall coaching is an important part of competitive play in nearly all e- and regular sports.

Group e/regular sports of course is a whole other thing and shouldn't really be considered. It is a part of some individual sports, but definitely not all. Professional tennis has long had a ban on coaching during matches for example, but has since allowed some hand signals / very limited conversation in-between points, but the rule change has been really contentious. All of those sports that do allow coaching have similar issues that we're seeing ourselves, where the less-resourced or newer players just don't have access to the same sort of coaching - even if other sports have this issue, it's still a problem, and the fact that it happens outside of the FGC doesn't mean that we should be ok with it.

There's also something inherently not right about tournament competitors coaching fellow competitors. For coaching to be ok, even with the above issue, I think players would need to have a dedicated non-competing coach that only coaches them, to avoid conflicts of interest / collusion / any other shenanigans, it all just seems not in the spirit of proper competition.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Coaching was always a part of MK tournaments, like since MK: DA or even earlier, so almost 2 decades old now. Imo it's fine, sometimes it spice things up or make for fun situations.

While this might be the case, I don't remember MKA tournaments having official, sponsored tournaments worth of couple thousand dollars on the line...

Of course the better player will eventually come out on top, but the coaching is distracting and annoying.

 

[Immortal]

Sonic and the other Rain player who unfortunately losed to Johnny/Cyrax

What? Sonic didn't lose and is WF.

While this might be the case, I don't remember MKA tournaments having official, sponsored tournaments worth of couple thousand dollars on the line...

Of course the better player will eventually come out on top, but the coaching is distracting and annoying.

Buddy, couple thusand dollars pots we had in MK9, so over a decade ago. We had tournaments which had like 100k and more on the line since then and coaching was just fine. As fas as money goes Pro Komp for MK1 is very subpar so that's not really a valid argument.

It's a matter of opinion ofc what somebody finds annoying or distracting but as it stands, (most)people compiting in those tournaments have no objection about it so it's here to stay for now.

 

[Ptehu]

Maybe i didnt make myself clear enough. There was this other Rain player, forgot his name, but something with 'blue' in the nickname maybe, and he lost to the guy who was using Johnny and Cyrax

 

[Immortal]

That's true, Bluelinkys, he also played very well.

 

[skahwt]

What are people's thoughts on coaching? It's getting brought up a lot across the various re-streams + the official stream itself - seems like a lot of people (myself included) think it shouldn't really be allowed.

I don't think we've seen many instances where coaching has actually had material effect on a match this tournament, but whenever it happens it feels really lame / wrong considering the nature of the 1 v 1 and adaption nature of FGs, as well as unequal "access" to coaching.

I’m unsure how I feel about it from a competitive standpoint, but as a viewer it extends an already long stream. I’d be happy to see it go.

Side note: I was watching through Foxy’s stream and he said when his opponent got coached he’d say to them; “I don’t know what he told you, mate, but it won’t help you win.” . The man is savage.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Buddy, couple thusand dollars pots we had in MK9, so over a decade ago. We had tournaments which had like 100k and more on the line since then and coaching was just fine. As fas as money goes Pro Komp for MK1 is very subpar so that's not really a valid argument.

It's a matter of opinion ofc what somebody finds annoying or distracting but as it stands, (most)people compiting in those tournaments have no objection about it so it's here to stay for now.

Yes, buddy, I know. Apparantly, I was not clear enough. I was refering to your quote, saying

"Coaching was always a part of MK tournaments, like since MK: DA "

because the coaching originated on small scale tournaments that had no real prize and thus were inconsequential. Obviously it stayed, while the games changed, got competitvely serious, got real prizes, got better players, etc.

It is indeed a matter of opinion, and it is indeed likely going to stay. but that is not at all what my point was when I replied.

 

[Wowbiggulps]

Pulling for Rewind just so we can say Darrius won a major

 

[Eji1700]

Group e/regular sports of course is a whole other thing and shouldn't really be considered. It is a part of some individual sports, but definitely not all. Professional tennis has long had a ban on coaching during matches for example, but has since allowed some hand signals / very limited conversation in-between points, but the rule change has been really contentious. All of those sports that do allow coaching have similar issues that we're seeing ourselves, where the less-resourced or newer players just don't have access to the same sort of coaching - even if other sports have this issue, it's still a problem, and the fact that it happens outside of the FGC doesn't mean that we should be ok with it.

There's also something inherently not right about tournament competitors coaching fellow competitors. For coaching to be ok, even with the above issue, I think players would need to have a dedicated non-competing coach that only coaches them, to avoid conflicts of interest / collusion / any other shenanigans, it all just seems not in the spirit of proper competition.

Yeah that's the other thing that rubs me the wrong way. Are there coaches in a sport like football? Sure. Are you allowed to have a coach from a team you're playing next week show up and say "oh yeah here's what you're doing wrong." Fuck no.

The fact there was coaching in games like Deception when the community was a fraction of what it was now just doesn't matter. The community is larger, and the barrier to entry to play in a tournament is a lot lower. It's dumb to punish people for not being "in the in" crowd. People want to talk between matches, fine. 0 way to control for that, but its such a bad look to waste 5 minutes while someone else competing in the tournament comes up and brushes someone up on an OS they don't know or whatever.

 

[Tony at Home]

Tournaments/Tours need to clarify coaching rules. This issue comes up every few years, something is decided on, forgotten, repeat.

 

[StormGoddess]

Top 8 has started.

https:// www.twitch.tv/netherrealm

 

[Juggs]

Idk how they’re going to play this entire set without fixing the sound…