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General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

KNX

KNX

Mortal
Take$$$ said:
Which also reminds me, I've seen a lot of D'Vorah matches lately and I rarely ever see people do 112 wc combos. I've heavily implemented them in my game. Its a 7 frame starter that does 36% meterless, is the easiest thing in the world to confirm, and is very very very safe. It punishes so many things and beats out so much stuff in this game, on top of being an amazing tool for getting out of pressure. I wonder why they're not used more.
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112 WC is super important pretty much for reasons you stated. 7 frame punish into big meterless damage. Also a great poke. I'd say it's not as popular because the focus on these forums and videos have been on conversions from f11 WC, f22 WC and b1 WC. I doubt it'll be long before it's utilized a lot more in matches.
 
BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
I'm finding 112~wgc, into 2 pretty tough. Cancel advantage window says 28 so should be easier than f22. Any tips?
 
Take$$$

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
BenGmanUk said:
I'm finding 112~wgc, into 2 pretty tough. Cancel advantage window says 28 so should be easier than f22. Any tips?
Click to expand...
Yeah thats wrong, no idea how that happened. Its all about speed so just practice df1, run, 2 until you have it down to the point where you don't/barely move from where you started.
 
chemist4hire

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
BenGmanUk said:
I'm finding 112~wgc, into 2 pretty tough. Cancel advantage window says 28 so should be easier than f22. Any tips?
Click to expand...
I found the easiest way to do it is to do 112, pause until you see the 2 about to hit and then do the df1. Doing it that way, it actually becomes as easy if not easier than f22 WGC. If you do the 112 df1 as a continuous string, the run cancel is almost impossible.
 
BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
Hmm will try that. Most WGC I'll dial the wasp into the string and THEN wait before doing the run cancel. It helps me break it down into two sections but doesn't work for me on 112. Gargh will keep plugging away thanks.
 
Take$$$

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
So I figured out the "trick" with hitting b1 wcs off of the f112 block string, though I still only hit it like 2/10 times on average. It's an improvement from 0/10 I guess. For pad users, basically all it is is when you press your forward+block, you hit the forward more towards the center of the pad then slide it back so your thumb is on back right as the run starts.
 
Altsa

Altsa

♦
Fuck EX ovi charge. Worst wakeup attack in the game. Would rather have Quan Chi's telestomp.

/rant

Seriously, though. There is absolutely no reason for my opponents to respect my wakeup. At all. My options are 1) Ex ovi charge 2) lay down. Just do a random overhead/low launcher, you cant lose.

Possible scenarios:

1) I use Ex ovi charge, it takes half a year(20 frames) to come out, I get knocked out of it, I lose a bar of meter, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor.

2) I use Ex ovi charge, somehow it manages to hit, you lose WHOPPING 11%, I likely lose 5% at least, I used a bar of meter, you are now on the floor, I have to respect your wakeup, you get up

3) I manage to block whatever string you used, I took some chip, I get up, advantage depends.

4) I quessed wrong, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor

While slightly extreme, scenarios like these happen very often in my games.

How are you guys dealing with pressure after you get knocked down?
 
Reactions: KNX
chemist4hire

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
Altsa said:
Fuck EX ovi charge. Worst wakeup attack in the game. Would rather have Quan Chi's telestomp.

/rant

Seriously, though. There is absolutely no reason for my opponents to respect my wakeup. At all. My options are 1) Ex ovi charge 2) lay down. Just do a random overhead/low launcher, you cant lose.

Possible scenarios:

1) I use Ex ovi charge, it takes half a year(20 frames) to come out, I get knocked out of it, I lose a bar of meter, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor.

2) I use Ex ovi charge, somehow it manages to hit, you lose WHOPPING 11%, I likely lose 5% at least, I used a bar of meter, you are now on the floor, I have to respect your wakeup, you get up

3) I manage to block whatever string you used, I took some chip, I get up, advantage depends.

4) I quessed wrong, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor

While slightly extreme, scenarios like these happen very often in my games.

How are you guys dealing with pressure after you get knocked down?
Click to expand...
Your best wake up options are Ex ovi, d2, throw and delayed wake up.

The only way to beat EX ovi is neutral jump, block punish or whiff punish. So throw it out once and see what your opponent does. Next time on knockdown see what your opponent does as you are falling, if they neutral jump, d2 and if they stand close go for reversal throw. If they are going for a meaty do delayed wake up. If they are respecting you, just stand up. You have to make them guess to better your chances, and condition them to decrease their options and increase your successful reads.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Altsa said:
Fuck EX ovi charge. Worst wakeup attack in the game. Would rather have Quan Chi's telestomp.

/rant

Seriously, though. There is absolutely no reason for my opponents to respect my wakeup. At all. My options are 1) Ex ovi charge 2) lay down. Just do a random overhead/low launcher, you cant lose.

Possible scenarios:

1) I use Ex ovi charge, it takes half a year(20 frames) to come out, I get knocked out of it, I lose a bar of meter, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor.

2) I use Ex ovi charge, somehow it manages to hit, you lose WHOPPING 11%, I likely lose 5% at least, I used a bar of meter, you are now on the floor, I have to respect your wakeup, you get up

3) I manage to block whatever string you used, I took some chip, I get up, advantage depends.

4) I quessed wrong, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor

While slightly extreme, scenarios like these happen very often in my games.

How are you guys dealing with pressure after you get knocked down?
Click to expand...
Your options are:

1. EX Ovi, not a great wakeup, definitely agree with you there.

2. Get up immediately and block. This wont be good until you condition your opponents with delayed wakeup

3. Delayed wakeup, let your opponent do the mixups, have them all whiff and get up hoping that you can either backdash or sneak a poke in.

4. Backdash. This is her best option when used sparingly. It can be beat on a read but if they think you are going to get up and block they will whiff and you can whiff punish them.

5. Assuming it isn't a HKD, tech roll. Same thing as backdash except it gets you farther away.

Her one glaring weakness is her wakeup game but since her offense is so strong I have no issue with it.
 
Take$$$

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Altsa said:
Fuck EX ovi charge. Worst wakeup attack in the game. Would rather have Quan Chi's telestomp.

/rant

Seriously, though. There is absolutely no reason for my opponents to respect my wakeup. At all. My options are 1) Ex ovi charge 2) lay down. Just do a random overhead/low launcher, you cant lose.

Possible scenarios:

1) I use Ex ovi charge, it takes half a year(20 frames) to come out, I get knocked out of it, I lose a bar of meter, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor.

2) I use Ex ovi charge, somehow it manages to hit, you lose WHOPPING 11%, I likely lose 5% at least, I used a bar of meter, you are now on the floor, I have to respect your wakeup, you get up

3) I manage to block whatever string you used, I took some chip, I get up, advantage depends.

4) I quessed wrong, I eat a full combo, im right back on the floor

While slightly extreme, scenarios like these happen very often in my games.

How are you guys dealing with pressure after you get knocked down?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty confident in saying D'Vorah has the worst wakeup in the game. Chemist and Zoidberg gave you the answers, but in truth none of them are good. Thats just the reality of this character.

We have absolutely insane damage and pressure, and the ONLY way thats fair and we will keep it is by having the worst wakeup game. Its a trade I'm more than happy to make, so my best advice is get very good at blocking on wakeup and use delayed wakeup frequently enough so they can't predict what you will do. On top of that, with the options Zoidberg and Chemist gave you, you will be able to catch them pressing buttons on your wakeup(ie not jumping) which will make the game even again or if they don't tech roll the ex ovi, you get to go on offense right away. Its still a gamble that is much worse for you if you lose, but that's how it is.

One thing you can do if they don't press a button immediately once you get up, is 112 and if it connects go into a full WC combo from it. 7 frame starter that does 35%-36% so they must respect it, which will make them more likely to press buttons on your wakeup so you can read your opponent further from there.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Take$$$ said:
I'm pretty confident in saying D'Vorah has the worst wakeup in the game. Chemist and Zoidberg gave you the answers, but in truth none of them are good. Thats just the reality of this character.

We have absolutely insane damage and pressure, and the ONLY way thats fair and we will keep it is by having the worst wakeup game. Its a trade I'm more than happy to make, so my best advice is get very good at blocking on wakeup and use delayed wakeup frequently enough so they can't predict what you will do. On top of that, with the options Zoidberg and Chemist gave you, you will be able to catch them pressing buttons on your wakeup(ie not jumping) which will make the game even again or if they don't tech roll the ex ovi, you get to go on offense right away. Its still a gamble that is much worse for you if you lose, but that's how it is.

One thing you can do if they don't press a button immediately once you get up, is 112 and if it connects go into a full WC combo from it. 7 frame starter that does 35%-36% so they must respect it, which will make them more likely to press buttons on your wakeup so you can read your opponent further from there.
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Quan chi's is much worse.

It is one of the worst though.
 
Take$$$

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Zoidberg747 said:
Quan chi's is much worse.

It is one of the worst though.
Click to expand...
Only reason I think ours is worse is because when Quan wakes up, if he happens to get a hit you get vortexed asap(possibly all the way to your death or he gets to zone you for a while), whereas D'Vorah just has 1 big damage combo if she gets a hit, then you have to hope they don't wake up with armor so you can f112 50/50 them

I think you might be right, though its very close imo. But yeah definitely bottom 3, though I think its more accurately 2nd worst or tied with Quan for worst in the game. Might even be worse than Quan, though that would be a harder argument to make than tied with Quan
 
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BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
Since 212 has no real safe options on block, are you guys doing WGC into more pressure or just WGC and back dashing? I had a quick test last night and maybe some forward advancing normals may tag you, it seems quite safe. Certainly safer than 212, 212~swarm or 212~ovi.
 
Take$$$

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
BenGmanUk said:
Since 212 has no real safe options on block, are you guys doing WGC into more pressure or just WGC and back dashing? I had a quick test last night and maybe some forward advancing normals may tag you, it seems quite safe. Certainly safer than 212, 212~swarm or 212~ovi.
Click to expand...
Are you just tossing out 212? Or are you talking about from b1/f22/112/etc?

If you're just tossing out 212 I recommend not doing that all together, I had that same bad habit when I first picked her up but stopped doing it.
 
BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
Just 212 but usually after a WGC to bait a button press. I know you can armour through it but almost no-one does this (yet).
 
chemist4hire

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
Zoidberg747 said:
Im having the same struggle with all of the cancels, the 1 keeps coming out instead of the 2. The few times I did get it I slid my finger from block to 2 right after the cancel. Pretty sure that is how you should do it.
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This may sound blasphemous but while trying to do b1 WGC cancels I felt I was not getting the 1 for df1 fast enough, and double tapping led to me throwing the wasp instead of holding. So I went back to the in game menu and turned negative edge on, so that I would only have to press 1 once. Since I could now input, b 1(hold) df and get Wasp grenade, I could now run cancel as soon as i hit forward on df. I was run canceling at the very first frame possible. This solved everything, I can now do the b1 wgc much more consistently. Since I had cleaned up my inputs in all my practice attempts, the negative edge being on does not really have a negative effect on my combos. Some of you may want to give this a try and see if it helps.

So my settings are:
release check: on
Alternate control: on (stick user)
Input shortcuts: on (stick user)
 
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Farpafraf

Farpafraf

Apprentice
Is it me or a blocked B1 has a slightly different timing on for the cancel (like F22)? Everytime someone blocks it I regally fu*k up the cancel.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
chemist4hire said:
This may sound blasphemous but while trying to do b1 WGC cancels I felt I was not getting the 1 for df1 fast enough, and double tapping led to me throwing the wasp instead of holding. So I went back to the in game menu and turned negative edge on, so that I would only have to press 1 once. Since I could now input, b 1(hold) df and get Wasp grenade, I could now run cancel as soon as i hit forward on df. I was run canceling at the very first frame possible. This solved everything, I can now do the b1 wgc much more consistently. Since I had cleaned up my inputs in all my practice attempts, the negative edge being on does not really have a negative effect on my combos. Some of you may want to give this a try and see if it helps.

So my settings are:
release check: on
Alternate control: on (stick user)
Input shortcuts: on (stick user)
Click to expand...
It sounds crazy, but it works. Having the negative edge really does make it more consistent. Especially now since my block button is a button and not a trigger.

If you are a pad D'vorah, I really recommend trying this.
 
BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
I have been using just 2 on it's own more now, along with the occasional 113 since it's also +2 and people like to press buttons after that.
 
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