Match-up Discussion Ducky's Raven MU Chart

[Smarrgasm]

The only thing that was stopping Raven/BA being even before was BA's amazing damage if he got a hit on her. Raven's zoning was always super strong against him and she could put him in the ambiguous setups. BA had options to escape them but they did not lead to Raven being punished. Most of his move nerfs didn't really change the MU, but when his damage dropped the disparity between the two pretty much vanished.

Also, you all made the silly mistake of trying to argue with Duckie on the internet. This isn't a discussion thread, it's Duckie's Statement of Fact.

Finally, why was a personal MU chart sticki... wait never mind, Statment of Fact


On a serious note, what made Lobo move up to 5-5? I have no idea of that MU so I'm assuming people have no figured out the various buffs and he's turned into a bit of a beast.

Im sorry but everything you said about the Adam Raven MU was pretty much wrong, even the part about his damage being nerfed.

First off, the movement nerf was huge in this MU. In trait Raven could not pillar into soul crush and catch Adam dashing pre patch meaning he could just dash in after anything on block. Now he has to fear the soul crush a lot more. On top of that after blocking a soul crush he used to be able to reversal lightning and she could not do anything meaning free chip much like adam used to do to Aquaman which has now also changed drastically. Now, with the aerial nerf to lightning she can simply jump after soul crush and punish lightning if it is attempted as a reversal since he is wide open for quite some time. She simply outzones him, equals him for damage in many cases and will almost always have meter to pushblock Adam if he ever gets in and tries to do trait cancel shenanigans.

Ive played this MU a ton with Glass Sword here in atlanta and Ducky some at NEC. Im not saying it couldnt be 5-5. But i think when you look at how the match should go, Raven definitely has some advantages Adam does not.

Lastly, Adams damage was never actually nerfed. Just cause you read something in patch notes doesnt make that the exact change that happened. He got scaling on Black Magic which only affects like 3 full screen combos.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Since your arguement is that nobody plays Raven right except you and that MUs shouldn't be decided over other Ravens, why aren't you getting the BA MU # from Rico Suave ?

lol

 

[Qwark28]

lol

u wot m8

 

[Smarrgasm]

u wot m8

I was laughing at your joke. Is there something wrong with that?

 

[Qwark28]

I was laughing at your joke. Is there something wrong with that?

How is it a joke

 

[Smarrgasm]

How is it a joke

Cause while it is true that there is only one, maybe 2 ravens at the highest level. There is a decent amount of Black Adams that i would consider to be at or close to the highest level. On top of that, Rico doesnt even play the game anymore so i doubt he cares.

Also, for someone who spouts MU numbers out his ass, including for Black Adam, i found the notion of your post quite humorous. Just saying.

 

[Sami]

stuff and things

BA's forward dash was actually less than 13 frames? I was playing against frauds lol. Fuck the rest of my arguments then, most of that was on the (apparently wrong) assumption that Raven could catch him in her full-screen zoning shenanigans.


edit: according to the patch notes the dash was 16 frames before it increased meaning pillar (+0 on block) to soul crush (13f start-up) catches him. So either pillar isn't +0 on block, soul crush isn't a 13f start up or the patch notes are wrong and his forward dash was quicker than 13 frames.

(or you didn't Soul Crush quick enough )

 

[Qwark28]

Cause while it is true that there is only one, maybe 2 ravens at the highest level. There is a decent amount of Black Adams that i would consider to be at or close to the highest level. On top of that, Rico doesnt even play the game anymore so i doubt he cares.

Fair enough

Also, for someone who spouts MU numbers out his ass, including for Black Adam, i found the notion of your post quite humorous. Just saying.

I don't spout matchup numbers out of my ass, you're free to correct me on Joker MU numbers you consider wrong with your expertise on the character. Just saying.

I haven't posted anything regarding the matchups of black adam in months, except 1-2 things, even if. Even though I still play and character and have since april.

 

[Qwark28]

BA's forward dash was actually less than 13 frames? I was playing against frauds lol. Fuck the rest of my arguments then, most of that was on the (apparently wrong) assumption that Raven could catch him in her full-screen zoning shenanigans.

It was 16.

 

[Smarrgasm]

BA's forward dash was actually less than 13 frames? I was playing against frauds lol. Fuck the rest of my arguments then, most of that was on the (apparently wrong) assumption that Raven could catch him in her full-screen zoning shenanigans.

The recovery was ridiculously good on his forward dash making it possible. Now he basically has to hold all that sadly.

 

[Sami]

It was 16.

Yep found the patch notes and edited my post

The recovery was ridiculously good on his forward dash making it possible. Now he basically has to hold all that sadly.

I don't understand how that makes sense. Assuming all the published frame data is correct, are you saying Black Adam could early block before his dash ended? Because if a 13f move starts at the same time as a 16f dash, the 13f move hits before the dash is over and BA can recover.

 

[Big Pampering]

There is a big gap between every other Raven player and me. I've played the mu enough, looked at each characters tools. It is 5-5. Sure its frost favor online but so is every mu against Raven.

AK Glass_Sword yo skill gap?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Oh okay, I see what you mean, yeah if done off of a mb pull I can see it happen there. Yeah, Raven's j3 combos are insane, and so satisfying to do.


You know, this thought popped into my mind and I wished to add to my previous proclamations, but you beat me to the punch- this situation is very similar to that of Killer Frost-Hawkgirl. Everyone and their mother thinks the MU is 10-0 Hawkgirl and even Hawkgirl players of varying skill levels "can't see how it could be anything other than advantage HG". Where as I, and as I'm sure other Frost players who do not desecrate her name, will swear up and down that it is 5-5. In fact now that I think of it, she is in the group of characters whose players send me the most death threats on XBL.

So perhaps the MU IS 5-5 and there are just so few Raven players who would ever make you see it that way. I dunno. I would say this is a legit point of discussion. Legit. Very legit. Too legit. Too legit to quit. And I know a thing or two about quitting...

Lol

Now post the 29 msgs he sent u where he threatens u and little raws

 

[Akromaniac27]

I don't get how its 4-6 Ravens favor against Harley. Harley out damages her and can end all of her combos in hard knockdowns. Plus blocked SC let's her reversal silly slide safely. When it comes to zoning, Harley can throw out pop pop to mess up with the timing for empty void and her MB cupcakes can't be absorbed. Idk. I don't see it 100% Harley's favor, but definitely not 4-6

 

[Blind_Ducky]

I don't get how its 4-6 Ravens favor against Harley. Harley out damages her and can end all of her combos in hard knockdowns. Plus blocked SC let's her reversal silly slide safely. When it comes to zoning, Harley can throw out pop pop to mess up with the timing for empty void and her MB cupcakes can't be absorbed. Idk. I don't see it 100% Harley's favor, but definitely not 4-6

Harley gets zoned out hard. Cupcakes get absorbed. Pop pop doesn't affect anything significantly enough to make a difference. The match up is 6-4 Raven.

AK SaltFace

 

[Akromaniac27]

Harley gets zoned out hard. Cupcakes get absorbed. Pop pop doesn't affect anything significantly enough to make a difference. The match up is 6-4 Raven.

AK SaltFace

I'd genuinely like to run this MU if youre intetested. I've played many Ravens(no names come to mind other than ReakBarker) and only his was keeping up the pace and even then Harley wasn't struggling to get in nor to stay in

 

[SaltFace NS]

Harley gets zoned out hard. Cupcakes get absorbed. Pop pop doesn't affect anything significantly enough to make a difference. The match up is 6-4 Raven.

AK SaltFace

Everything I do to approach Raven is a risk. It's almost like fighting Sinestro except she don't have a retarded trait like him. And my main zoning tools are useless if Raven is on point. I absolutely agree 6-4 Raven.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Everything I do to approach Raven is a risk. It's almost like fighting Sinestro except she don't have a retarded trait like him. And my main zoning tools are useless if Raven is on point. I absolutely agree 6-4 Raven.

Let's not call names lol. My little friend deserves respect.

 

[SaltFace NS]

Let's not call names lol. My little friend deserves respect.

What are you kidding me. I got more respect for you than anything bro. You earned that.

 

[RIF]

Everything I do to approach Raven is a risk. It's almost like fighting Sinestro except she don't have a retarded trait like him. And my main zoning tools are useless if Raven is on point. I absolutely agree 6-4 Raven.

Raven's trait is pretty damn OP.

 

[Qwark28]

Raven's trait is pretty damn OP.

Considering what she'd be without it, it's pretty fair. She's a very good character.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

What are you kidding me. I got more respect for you than anything bro. You earned that.

haha I meant respect for Sinestro's trait.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

I'd genuinely like to run this MU if youre intetested. I've played many Ravens(no names come to mind other than ReakBarker) and only his was keeping up the pace and even then Harley wasn't struggling to get in nor to stay in

Sure, we can play it.

 

[LEGEND]

Glad to see DS listed as 5-5 and not randomly listed as advantage for no reason

Bang bang

 

[Awkward Sloth]

I don't get how its 4-6 Ravens favor against Harley. Harley out damages her and can end all of her combos in hard knockdowns. Plus blocked SC let's her reversal silly slide safely. When it comes to zoning, Harley can throw out pop pop to mess up with the timing for empty void and her MB cupcakes can't be absorbed. Idk. I don't see it 100% Harley's favor, but definitely not 4-6

If your Harley is on Deg's and Saltface's level its a 6-4 Raven
If your Harley isn't then it's a 6.5-3.5 Raven's favor offline and a 7-3 online.

Playing Ducky is learning the hardway. ;~;