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Match-up Discussion Doomsday Matchup Discussion

You have to explain why he loses to Shazam, that's the only number that hopped out at me. I also thought he lost to Aquamanas Aquaman does a good job of stopping his jump ins and using MB trident rush during Doomsdays trait so explain that one too.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
You having bar or trait doesn't mean shit, at least in this MU.

KF controls the pace. I'm keeping you out and you have no choice but to come in. You can't jump at her because you gonna get AA'd, and yes, her D2 works against the body splash. Even if you trait up and do a jump in attack, I'll just AA you and you'll just fall in place, giving me an opportunity to just back away. If you want to get in with MB supernova, all I have to do is just slide or forward dash, and you're gonna get punished. If you wanna get in with MB venom, you'll just get parried if KF can react to it. It even parries DD while he's in his trait. Even after a blocked MB venom, the odds are still in KFs favor because of all the options she has.

Upclose, I DONT fear DD at all. Parry really fucks him over, especially when it comes to the D2 string.

All KF has to do is play patient and just let DD fuck up. Its definitely in her favor.

RiBBz22
The hardest part it getting in. And mid screen I have to make reads, but as soon as she's in the corner she has to play my game. I can easily stop your parry by doing just raw earth shaker. And jumping is going to get you instantly air thrown because of how floaty her jump is. I'll leave it at 5-5 until I play it more. But I definitely feel like you have a lot of the right opinions.

You have to explain why he loses to Shazam, that's the only number that hopped out at me. I also thought he lost to Aquamanas Aquaman does a good job of stopping his jump ins and using MB trident rush during Doomsdays trait so explain that one too.
He loses to Shazam because Shazam doesn't have to respect any of his rushdown at all. You can literally get the life lead with Shazam and run away for the rest of the match. It does take reads from Shazam, but Doomsday honestly has no way to lock him down.

Aquaman is 5-5 because outside of trident rush, which isn't really that big of a deal, Aqua has no way to get me off of him. I'm free to do oki as long as I'm making decent reads, they don't even have to be perfect. He doesn't really have any way to get me off of him without throwing things out and putting himself in risky positions. Yes he can zone me out, but only for so long. Also Aquaman's triat is absolutely useless in this match up considering the only combos I'll ever be doing juggle after the first hit.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
The hardest part it getting in. And mid screen I have to make reads, but as soon as she's in the corner she has to play my game. I can easily stop your parry by doing just raw earth shaker. And jumping is going to get you instantly air thrown because of how floaty her jump is. I'll leave it at 5-5 until I play it more. But I definitely feel like you have a lot of the right opinions.

Fair enough. But DD pretty much fucks everyone over in the corner, not just KF.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Lol to losing against shazam. How is shazam even gonna get the lifelead?

joker is 6-4 doomsday, joker has decent answers to DDs shit.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Lol to losing against shazam. How is shazam even gonna get the lifelead?

joker is 6-4 doomsday, joker has decent answers to DDs shit.
This is completely open to discussion and I welcome any input. Except from Qwark28. <3
EDIT: Seriously though I put Shazam as a 6-4 as a joke for when I sent it to Legend and forgot to change it.

why is deathstroke 4 6
The fact that he's one of the only characters in the game that can effectively keep Doomsday out and the fact that his oki is generally nonexistant due to both of DS' wake ups. You can't even reverse them in the corner becuase he gets sword spin.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
EDIT: Seriously though I put Shazam as a 6-4 as a joke for when I sent it to Legend and forgot to change it.


The fact that he's one of the only characters in the game that can effectively keep Doomsday out and the fact that his oki is generally nonexistant due to both of DS' wake ups. You can't even reverse them in the corner becuase he gets sword spin.
How would DS keep out DD when he can't shoot? If he does M2Dave you get a free ex venom or trait, same with whiffed high M2Dave.

Basically this is how I see it.

One wrong gunshot vs doomday is a free ex venom at 3/4 screen.

DS has a very good up close game which is why i personally have it 5-5

basically DS doesnt have traditional zoning, he has a "punish you when i think youre gonna move" zoning which is flawed against a char that gets in so easily, then you have DSs wakeups ( which im currently finding good tech against ), 50/50s and frametraps of his own but add in your trait and its all cool.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
How would DS keep out DD when he can't shoot? If he does M2Dave you get a free ex venom or trait, same with whiffed high M2Dave.

Basically this is how I see it.

One wrong gunshot vs doomday is a free ex venom at 3/4 screen.

DS has a very good up close game which is why i personally have it 5-5

basically DS doesnt have traditional zoning, he has a "punish you when i think youre gonna move" zoning which is flawed against a char that gets in so easily, then you have DSs wakeups ( which im currently finding good tech against ), 50/50s and frametraps of his own but add in your trait and its all cool.
If you have trait it's not that bad. DS can mb his guns on reaction to your venom and hit you out of MB venom. That being said even once you do get in, it's not a good situation for you because of how good his up close game is. And even if you do knock him down or push him to the corner, he has sword flip/spin. Basically he doesn't really have to give a fuck about where you are or what you're doing because he has an option for everything. I honestly did think it was 5-5 for a while, but after grinding it out all I really see is more options for him, and less for me.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Deathstroke is probably 5-5 , i'm labbing this matchup hard and found out that DS can do the same thing doomsday does to him in the corner wich is good and how does deathstoke keep out Doomsday when he does have a good dash and EX venom , you block or duck a gunshot outside jump range you get a free Venom punish , even if you're wrong you can EX venom , jumping on him isn't reliable because Airthrow beats j3 100% , if he gets me in the corner and he's traited Sword spin is punishable , there's more and DS has some good things running for him but i wouldn't call it in anyones favour
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
SonicBoomBrad

I think Doomsday vs Arrow is 5-5..
It could be I guess, but I don't really see anything Arrow does better than Doomsday in that match up, and I have way better damage unless you have super. I guess the fact that I can't really oki him makes it better, but I can still read the savage blast and punish with Mb venom or something. It's honestly a weird match up.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
If you have trait it's not that bad. DS can mb his guns on reaction to your venom and hit you out of MB venom. That being said even once you do get in, it's not a good situation for you because of how good his up close game is. And even if you do knock him down or push him to the corner, he has sword flip/spin. Basically he doesn't really have to give a fuck about where you are or what you're doing because he has an option for everything. I honestly did think it was 5-5 for a while, but after grinding it out all I really see if more options for him, and less for me.
No, im not talking about seeing guns then venoming, im talking about letting guns whiff or lgs be blocked then venom, DS can't do anything, you can even wait just incase of a MB version and still get the free venom in. If they MB it's awesome because they wasted a bar while you can wait for MB and get a venom anyways.

In the corner spin is a free d1 and flip is full combo into insane wall carry, deathstroke also has no aerial and crossup game which means he cannot use J3 to be + in your face for f23 and other frametraps

you should always block high against his spin because even with the knockdown (untechable?) he still can't jump without being snatched on reaction, he's basically doomed to almost never jump

not to mention that if you do get an ex air snatch you have more setups, im working on punishing deathstrokes flip on hit out of that setup right now.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
It could be I guess, but I don't really see anything Arrow does better than Doomsday in that match up, and I have way better damage unless you have super. I guess the fact that I can't really oki him makes it better, but I can still read the savage blast and punish with Mb venom or something. It's honestly a weird match up.
savage blast is a free trait on whiff or block and also a free venom, its just that theres a guessing game of "if i dont hit you with savage blast you still have the option of getting in my face"
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Deathstroke is probably 5-5 , i'm labbing this matchup hard and found out that DS can do the same thing doomsday does to him in the corner wich is good and how does deathstoke keep out Doomsday when he does have a good dash and EX venom , you block or duck a gunshot outside jump range you get a free Venom punish , even if you're wrong you can EX venom , jumping on him isn't reliable because Airthrow beats j3 100% , if he gets me in the corner and he's traited Sword spin is punishable , there's more and DS has some good things running for him but i wouldn't call it in anyones favour
upload the sets we had, they can be helpful
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
No, im not talking about seeing guns then venoming, im talking about letting guns whiff or lgs be blocked then venom, DS can't do anything, you can even wait just incase of a MB version and still get the free venom in. If they MB it's awesome because they wasted a bar while you can wait for MB and get a venom anyways.

In the corner spin is a free d1 and flip is full combo into insane wall carry, deathstroke also has no aerial and crossup game which means he cannot use J3 to be + in your face for f23 and other frametraps

you should always block high against his spin because even with the knockdown (untechable?) he still can't jump without being snatched on reaction, he's basically doomed to almost never jump

not to mention that if you do get an ex air snatch you have more setups, im working on punishing deathstrokes flip on hit out of that setup right now.
That's all true, but I still feel like DS has way more options to deal with Doomsday than Doomsday does the other way around. I also don't really think you can call it even when I knock him down and put myself into a 50-50.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
It could be I guess, but I don't really see anything Arrow does better than Doomsday in that match up, and I have way better damage unless you have super. I guess the fact that I can't really oki him makes it better, but I can still read the savage blast and punish with Mb venom or something. It's honestly a weird match up.

Wait... How much damage does Doomsday do? lol.

I thought he just did like 12% each time with D1~Earth Shaker.

You kan oki Arrow it's just not free. Like you said, you have answers to his wake ups.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Wait... How much damage does Doomsday do? lol.

I thought he just did like 12% each time with D1~Earth Shaker.

You kan oki Arrow it's just not free. Like you said, you have answers to his wake ups.
Depending on the punish I get get 30-40% off of a punish. Not to mention once you get arrow in the corner it's like game over.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
upload the sets we had, they can be helpful
Yeah gonna do that , just gonna edit the whole clip and wait some hours for it to upload , i did get bodied but it's more about me not knowing the matchup , i know DS has options in this MU to call it 5-5
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
That's all true, but I still feel like DS has way more options to deal with Doomsday than Doomsday does the other way around.
well thats because DDs options are basically herpa derp i venom your face in.

its one option but its applicable in so many areas, the setup im working on relies on being hit by 1 flip from the sword flip then venoming on wakeup while the DS player is on recovery for not a punish but a free way in at + frames with decent chip and you can bait it out to let them either corner themselves in certain situations or block the JD3