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Match-up Discussion Doomsday Matchup Discussion

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Eldriken

Guest
We've had a tournament here pretty recently and this is some of my Doomsday that was played on stream. Any insights on matchup or gameplay I would love to hear it

http://www.twitch.tv/210fighters/b/440957709

3:37:00 - 4:02:00
It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who gets completely destroyed by a good Batman player. Jesus. I don't know what to do against 'em.

But other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed watching your DD. I think I've picked up a couple of things from you since I'm a new DD player. Would definitely watch more. :p
 
I noticed you can negate all of Deathstroke's wakeup game after a D3 knockdown. After the knock you have the time to dash up and perform a neutral instant air d3. This causes all his wakeups to whiff including sword flip. Also reverses inputs as well.

Super = whiffs
All gun moves = full combo punish
Sword spin = full combo punish
Sword flip = whiffs, offering free Venom hit
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
So for the Superman match up, make sure you learn either Batman, Aquaman, or Adam. That's how you win that match up.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Hey guys, who's Doomsday's worst match-up and what's the number approximately?
EDIT: except Superman.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Hey guys, who's Doomsday's worst match-up and what's the number approximately?
EDIT: except Superman.
In general his worst MU's are all 6-4's and they are all winnable if you play the MU carefully. Imo, his absolute worst is probably Batman or BA.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I noticed you can negate all of Deathstroke's wakeup game after a D3 knockdown. After the knock you have the time to dash up and perform a neutral instant air d3. This causes all his wakeups to whiff including sword flip. Also reverses inputs as well.

Super = whiffs
All gun moves = full combo punish
Sword spin = full combo punish
Sword flip = whiffs, offering free Venom hit


super= death
guns= never going to be done
spin= death
flip= death

instant air d3 will whiff if they dont wakeup and youll eat a d2 combo into oki setups

if you think deathstroke will wakeup you take a step back while blocking and f2 spin on reaction while blocking everything else
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
In general his worst MU's are all 6-4's and they are all winnable if you play the MU carefully. Imo, his absolute worst is probably Batman or BA.
His absolute worst match up is Superman. Superman is almost unwinnable. Batman is actually alright if they're rushing you down and you're patient. If they zone it gets a lot harder. You can actually jump before the explosion on b23 and go in on him, which makes things easier. Do a lot of jump splash into raw ES on his wake up, cause those are both unparryable. Still a 6-4 for sure. Adam is hard, but he doesn't really have many ways to get you off him if you're good at reading lightning cage.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
His absolute worst match up is Superman. Superman is almost unwinnable. Batman is actually alright if they're rushing you down and you're patient. If they zone it gets a lot harder. You can actually jump before the explosion on b23 and go in on him, which makes things easier. Do a lot of jump splash into raw ES on his wake up, cause those are both unparryable. Still a 6-4 for sure. Adam is hard, but he doesn't really have many ways to get you off him if you're good at reading lightning cage.
Yeah i know about this. What i hate about the Batman-DD MU is that DD can be parried while he is traited. I hope they fix that in the upcoming major patch. Against BA the hard part is getting in, not when up close. While DD starts getting in, he can easily do a far divekick to escape and that is hard to punish on reaction.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Yeah i know about this. What i hate about the Batman-DD MU is that DD can be parried while he is traited. I hope they fix that in the upcoming major patch. Against BA the hard part is getting in, not when up close. While DD starts getting in, he can easily do a far divekick to escape and that is hard to punish on reaction.
Yeah, not getting parryed while traited would be nice. Or just not being able to parry venom all together. Adam is a lot of correct reads. You have to read his divekicks, you have to read either backdash/jump after mb venom. As long as you get constant reads it's very hard for that Adam player, but that isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world.
 
super= death
guns= never going to be done
spin= death
flip= death

instant air d3 will whiff if they dont wakeup and youll eat a d2 combo into oki setups

if you think deathstroke will wakeup you take a step back while blocking and f2 spin on reaction while blocking everything else
Qwark you animal. I said you have to DASH forward after the d3 knock down then do an instant air d3. It doesn't whiff, causes an ambiguous crossup, reverses their input and all that jazz.

Why f2? Isn't that a little slow @ 21 frames?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Qwark you animal. I said you have to DASH forward after the d3 knock down then do an instant air d3. It doesn't whiff, causes an ambiguous crossup, reverses their input and all that jazz.

Why f2? Isn't that a little slow @ 21 frames?
didnt read it correctly, that setup is what i use all the time but vs deathstroke its easy to see coming

its the best thing to use, fastest and it will at least be blocked
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
superman is not that bad, in some matchups you dont NEED the trait.

not to mention that if you play it correctly youll cause neutral ground trait activations which you can venom in for free
 
superman is not that bad, in some matchups you dont NEED the trait.

not to mention that if you play it correctly youll cause neutral ground trait activations which you can venom in for free
The match up got a lot worse after the last patch. With the increased push back from Breath, Superman can walk back a little then whiff punish DD's d1 with another f23

So now, DD has no good options after blocking a f23. Doubly so in the corner where you can't even back dash and one f23 leads to 68%
 
The match up got a lot worse after the last patch. With the increased push back from Breath, Superman can walk back a little then whiff punish DD's d1 with another f23

So now, DD has no good options after blocking a f23. Doubly so in the corner where you can't even back dash and one f23 leads to 68%
Have any of the NRS gentlemen come out and said f23 would be addressed in the next balance patch?
 
Have any of the NRS gentlemen come out and said f23 would be addressed in the next balance patch?
Dunno about that, but they just announced that the next balance patch will take a few more weeks and won't be released with zatanna.

I'm gonna learn Flash or something. No other character, not batman, black Adam, or (my personal demon) green arrow, has made me want to seriously pick up a new main.

Superman is *that* bad, and will remain that way if they don't 1) reduce the push back on breath, 2) fix the second hit of Earth Shaker so that it stops whiffing on float-standing characters.
 

cyke_out

Noob
So day 1 feelings on the Zatana match-up? That teleport looks like she is gonna be a pain to keep in the corner. not too worried about her zoning, especially in trait. That might be one of the few times MB Supernova is a sure bet.
 

haketh

Noob
So day 1 feelings on the Zatana match-up? That teleport looks like she is gonna be a pain to keep in the corner. not too worried about her zoning, especially in trait. That might be one of the few times MB Supernova is a sure bet.
She can dash cancel out of the trait. Can't quite tell how good her BD is though.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
So day 1 feelings on the Zatana match-up? That teleport looks like she is gonna be a pain to keep in the corner. not too worried about her zoning, especially in trait. That might be one of the few times MB Supernova is a sure bet.
It's like the Martian match up. You'll be able to keep them in the corner until they figure out how to teleport with reversed inputs. For everything else you just trait and run at her. When you don't have trait either sit back, whiff air grabs, and wait, or use the bars you have to venom in and push her to the corner. Not a very hard match up right now, but I'm sure it'll end up being a lot harder than Martian once people figure out her levitate cancels into teleport.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Post NEC list.

Flash: 4-6
Nightwing: 4.5-5.5
Batman: 4-6
Lobo: 6-4
Joker: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 5-5
Cyborg: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Superman: 4-6
Martian Manhunter: 5.5-4.5
Zod: 4.5-5.5
Lex Luthor: 5.5-4.5
Catwoman: 6-4
Deathstroke: 6-4
Aquaman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 3.5-6.5
Zatanna: 5-5
Scorpion: 6-4
Ares: 6-4
Killer Frost: 3-7
Doomsday: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Shazam: 5-5
Green Lantern: 5-5
Batgirl: 4.5-5.5
Sinestro: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Bane: 4.5-5.5
Raven: 6-4

Advantage 10
Even 11
Disadvantage 9 (Most are very slight.)
 
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xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
You having bar or trait doesn't mean shit, at least in this MU.

KF controls the pace. I'm keeping you out and you have no choice but to come in. You can't jump at her because you gonna get AA'd, and yes, her D2 works against the body splash. Even if you trait up and do a jump in attack, I'll just AA you and you'll just fall in place, giving me an opportunity to just back away. If you want to get in with MB supernova, all I have to do is just slide or forward dash, and you're gonna get punished. If you wanna get in with MB venom, you'll just get parried if KF can react to it. It even parries DD while he's in his trait. Even after a blocked MB venom, the odds are still in KFs favor because of all the options she has.

Upclose, I DONT fear DD at all. Parry really fucks him over, especially when it comes to the D2 string.

All KF has to do is play patient and just let DD fuck up. Its definitely in her favor.

RiBBz22