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Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
If timed correctly, yes. Use MB stomp too. Also use the Explosive Parademon. The more options you use the more difficulty your opponent will have guessing what is coming.
with the exploding demon, u can mess with them a bit before actually going for the mix am i right?

and from full screen, if you think their just gonna dash away from the demon u can insta explode while you teleport in and land an instant air mb stomp combo too.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
honestly, im starting to think the best way to use darkseids trait is to use the explosive parademon, and attempt ambiguous crossups via ji3, or ji2. the HTB with overhead demon works best in the corner.

best of all, you can condition your opponent to stand there and take the crossup by simultaneously teleporting and detonating your demon, since if their pressing buttons they'll be launched right into you.
 

SE1Z3

Noob
So to clarify, if I do charging Parademon + teleport B1 is that a crossup?

For simplicity's sake: Just tested this, yes the above setup is indeed a crossup if timed properly.

In regards to Invincible Salads last post, Explosive Demon is such a underutilized tool right now, at least for me and many of the Darkseid players I come across online. I think he may tie with Teleport Parademon for MVP (Most Valuable Parademon) :couldn't resist:


Xbox: SE1Z3 PSN: Gorvesk Twitter: @franciscapra
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Can someone give me some basic trait use.
Using what with the right demon

Flying Parademon
- only useful full screen away
4 - the fireball technically hits mid but its hitbox starts off very high and gradually arcs down causing whiffs unless your opponent is really far away. However, the fireball provides the most block advantage out of any other Parademon attack. A blocked full screen fireball is at least +60 on block so you can teleport and mix up your opponent using MB b+1,u+3 or an instant aerial MB stomp.
f+4 - the flying attack technically hits mid but whiffs on all crouching opponents. Treat this move as an anti-aerial attack, which guarantees a grounded omega beam if you hit your opponent airborne. An additional benefit is that the move can connect after 2,2,1+3 for combos.

Charging Parademon - the most versatile Parademon, particularly in footsies and zoning
4 - the dive is a slow overhead attack. You can perform MB low omega beam when far away or an instant aerial MB stomp when close to create hard-to-blockable set ups.
f+4 - the charge is arguably the most versatile Parademon attack. You can use the charge to create safe zoning scenarios that would otherwise be highly unsafe, such as using grounded omega beams in footsies and having the Parademon punish any retaliations. Likewise, you can use the the charge to force 50/50 mix ups by teleporting behind the opponent and taking advantage of MB b+1,u+3 and an instant aerial MB stomp. The charge also starts up in only three frames and can punish MB forward dashes if positioned properly. The charge can anti-air too but has the least block advantage out of any other Parademon attack.

Explosive Parademon - best used offensively, specifically in the corner
4 - the Explosive Parademon allows you to safely perform combos from various attacks. In the corner, summon this Parademon in the middle of the combo and finish the combo with d,f+2 in order to acquire the maximum frame advantage. Then force your opponent to guess between b+1, d+3 or low laser, and throw and have the Parademon explode to juggle or make your move safe on block.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
We got ambiguous crossup setups too bruh :)


you get more damge with the charging demon, but you can do this with the exploding demon as well.

you could probably wait to do the charge and keep it for safety just go for ambiguous ji3~mb stomp, or Ambigous ji2, b1u3 MB as well.
 
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Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
people are saying, oh you can just zone out characters like harley, etc, yet can't zone if they're just duck walking their way in, blocking your mb lasers and being patient, then once they do then what? i don't get how im supposed to zone these characters that he supposedly zones out :/
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
people are saying, oh you can just zone out characters like harley, etc, yet can't zone if they're just duck walking their way in, blocking your mb lasers and being patient, then once they do then what? i don't get how im supposed to zone these characters that he supposedly zones out :/
All high level players duck and walk to minimize the effectiveness of the zoning. If you put a Charging Parademon on the screen, you can punish this strategy with the charge. Simply zone using grounded and aerial omega beams and have the demon charge the opponent if you anticipate punishment or movement. If the charge hits, you can usually combo with a grounded omega beam, which knocks the opponent away allowing you to reset your zoning. If the charge does not hit, a grounded omega beam usually jails the opponent because of the charge's block stun, making the omega beam safe on block against the vast majority of characters.

If trait is unavailable, you may have to engage your opponent and play footsies. Of course, playing footsies with Darkseid frightens us Darkseid players because of the character's mediocre normal attacks. However, if you poke with d+3 at the appropriate range, you are generally in a safe zone against most characters. Nonetheless, you attentively have to watch out for jumps and you consistently have to be prepared to anti-air using MB b+3. Sometimes you also have to be ready to take risks and do the jumping yourself or use instant aerial teleports and stomps. Playing footsies is intricate because of the all the variables, but feeling adequately comfortable to engage your opponent mid range will be essential for any Darkseid player, particularly as the game progresses.

By the way, the first post has been updated with match up information. If anyone has any advice on how to fight Black Adam with Darkseid, please share.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
All high level players duck and walk to minimize the effectiveness of the zoning. If you put a Charging Parademon on the screen, you can punish this strategy with the charge. Simply zone using grounded and aerial omega beams and have the demon charge the opponent if you anticipate punishment or movement. If the charge hits, you can usually combo with a grounded omega beam, which knocks the opponent away allowing you to reset your zoning. If the charge does not hit, a grounded omega beam usually jails the opponent because of the charge's block stun, making the omega beam safe on block against the vast majority of characters.

If trait is unavailable, you may have to engage your opponent and play footsies. Of course, playing footsies with Darkseid frightens us Darkseid players because of the character's mediocre normal attacks. However, if you poke with d+3 at the appropriate range, you are generally in a safe zone against most characters. Nonetheless, you attentively have to watch out for jumps and you consistently have to be prepared to anti-air using MB b+3. Sometimes you also have to be ready to take risks and do the jumping yourself or use instant aerial teleports and stomps. Playing footsies is intricate because of the all the variables, but feeling adequately comfortable to engage your opponent mid range will be essential for any Darkseid player, particularly as the game progresses.

By the way, the first post has been updated with match up information. If anyone has any advice on how to fight Black Adam with Darkseid, please share.
alright, ill try using charging parademon more in my zoning, its just, usually if i have trait up, i feel obligated to go in and try to mix, or i wasted my trait. but i guess i could try using it to actually zone more.

also, as far as BA is concerned, theres a sweet spot with air omega lasers, if you do it at the correct height, black magic will wiff, but your laser will still connect with Black adams head.
 

kcd117

Noob
All high level players duck and walk to minimize the effectiveness of the zoning. If you put a Charging Parademon on the screen, you can punish this strategy with the charge. Simply zone using grounded and aerial omega beams and have the demon charge the opponent if you anticipate punishment or movement. If the charge hits, you can usually combo with a grounded omega beam, which knocks the opponent away allowing you to reset your zoning. If the charge does not hit, a grounded omega beam usually jails the opponent because of the charge's block stun, making the omega beam safe on block against the vast majority of characters.

If trait is unavailable, you may have to engage your opponent and play footsies. Of course, playing footsies with Darkseid frightens us Darkseid players because of the character's mediocre normal attacks. However, if you poke with d+3 at the appropriate range, you are generally in a safe zone against most characters. Nonetheless, you attentively have to watch out for jumps and you consistently have to be prepared to anti-air using MB b+3. Sometimes you also have to be ready to take risks and do the jumping yourself or use instant aerial teleports and stomps. Playing footsies is intricate because of the all the variables, but feeling adequately comfortable to engage your opponent mid range will be essential for any Darkseid player, particularly as the game progresses.

By the way, the first post has been updated with match up information. If anyone has any advice on how to fight Black Adam with Darkseid, please share.
Been having success in the BA matchup lately, I think I figured some things out.
Insta air lasers are the most important tool in this matchup. If you do then right there is not much BA can do to avoid them, he can't dash in between since you can fire another omega beam as soon as you land, he can't trade bacause if you do them at the right height both black magic and lightining strike whiff and he gets hit, he can't dive kick because you recover fast enough to mbb3 on reaction. If you can keep him honest with the threat of another omega beam as soon as you land you should be able to estabilish a very powerfull zoning game in the MU.

The footsie range is a struggle but d3 is a godsend in this matchup, it makes f1 whiff and gives darkseid room to create some space or go for a mix. And unless BA is really close, mbb3 is a great answer for his divekick. his anti air game is not very strong, and you can do some very low air lasers to bait a projectile and teleport for a full punish.

Blocking against black adam can be tricky, but I noticed that darkseid has an actually easier time doing it on his divekick mixups. DS is a tall character, and unless black adam is literally on top of you his dive kicks are not going to cross you up if he goes for an air normal first, so if he is trying to bait your wakeup by neutral jumping in front of you just hold back, and if he dashes foward to mix you up you can either delay wakeup or mix tech roll wakeup knee with normal wakeup knee. I just think that the fact that black adam has to do the divekick at a different angle to cross darkseid up kinda helps in the matchup.

I think that's all I have to share for now. I play two very very good black adams regularly and it goes mostly even or in my favor. If I find something else that can hel in that MU i'll share here.


Now I just wanna bring up that Flash is a terrible matchup for darkseid. Whoever sold that bill that flash struggles against zoners has no clue. He basically still has the mkx run mechanic, and at least 12 different ways to destroy you on knockdown. Darkseid can't check his negative frames at all because his d2 low profiles ALL his normals, from d1 to b1 overhead and even the charging parademon. DS can't keep flash out, gets outfoosied by flash, he can't deal with his pressure even when he is negative, he can't mix flash because if timed correctly his d2 gets rid of every situation you can put him and he is one of the few characters that outdamages darkseid. I never felt more helpless against a rushdown character tbh.
 
I would like the impressions of everyone prior to the balance patch dropping soon. How would you rate Darkseid in your perspective during this timeframe. Do you regret maining him, how enjoyable do you find using him?

I started using Darkseid on Midnight during release date, I love the character his voice acting is great and animations are impressive. Nothing is more satisfying than landing a stomp and destroying your opponent's lifebar. Now as stated by other DS mains, his abhorrent normals leave plenty to be desired, but it forced me to evolve as a player and embrace his mix more than sit back and zone. My Darkseid play style has changed drastically and I'm very happy that this community has such great people will to help and make suggestions to improve our game.

I have zero regrets with this character and hope he isn't butchered. I would love it if they slightly adjusted the top tiers and left him as is currently.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I have zero regrets with this character and hope he isn't butchered.
I am honestly not certain what NRS could butcher without destroying the character's core gameplay design. The zoning is very good yet punishable. The 50/50 mix up is strong but full-combo punishable. The teleport serves as the primary mobility tool because the backdash is average while the MB forward dash covers the least distance in the game. The normal attacks are evidently bad, which I think is the reason why he has access to top tier damage output.

To answer your original question, I have wanted to play Darkseid since Injustice 1. I love the character and the gameplay style. They fit perfectly. NRS did an excellent job. I am very likely biased, but I believe Darkseid has more depth than the average Injustice 2 top tier character (i.e., Aquaman, Black Adam, Superman, etc.)
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I am honestly not certain what NRS could butcher without destroying the character's core gameplay design. The zoning is very good yet punishable. The 50/50 mix up is strong but full-combo punishable. The teleport serves as the primary mobility tool because the backdash is average while the MB forward dash covers the least distance in the game. The normal attacks are evidently bad, which I think is the reason why he has access to top tier damage output.

To answer your original question, I have wanted to play Darkseid since Injustice 1. I love the character and the gameplay style. They fit perfectly. NRS did an excellent job. I am very likely biased, but I believe Darkseid has more depth than the average Injustice 2 top tier character (i.e., Aquaman, Black Adam, Superman, etc.)

tbh, i think they need to make his f2 much faster.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Now I just wanna bring up that Flash is a terrible matchup for darkseid. Whoever sold that bill that flash struggles against zoners has no clue. He basically still has the mkx run mechanic, and at least 12 different ways to destroy you on knockdown. Darkseid can't check his negative frames at all because his d2 low profiles ALL his normals, from d1 to b1 overhead and even the charging parademon. DS can't keep flash out, gets outfoosied by flash, he can't deal with his pressure even when he is negative, he can't mix flash because if timed correctly his d2 gets rid of every situation you can put him and he is one of the few characters that outdamages darkseid. I never felt more helpless against a rushdown character tbh.

Wait, what? People thought Darkseid wins against Flash?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
but its a crappy punisher
I understand, but you cannot have access to strong normal attacks in addition to 50/50 mix ups, high damage output, zoning, and anti-zoning. The character should have an exploitable weakness. In NRS fighting games, character who have limited to no flaws have historically have been super top tier. They have also caused the most lopsided match ups and thus the extinction of certain characters who would otherwise be tournament viable.

I genuinely believe Darkseid is fine where he is. Most players seem to rank him in the top 10, anywhere between the sevenths and tenth spot. In other words, he is a low top tier character, which a good place to be.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I understand, but you cannot have access to strong normal attacks in addition to 50/50 mix ups, high damage output, zoning, and anti-zoning. The character should have an exploitable weakness. In NRS fighting games, character who have limited to no flaws have historically have been super top tier. They have also caused the most lopsided match ups and thus the extinction of certain characters who would otherwise be tournament viable.

I genuinely believe Darkseid is fine where he is. Most players seem to rank him in the top 10, anywhere between the sevenths and tenth spot. In other words, he is a low top tier character, which a good place to be.
it wouldn't change that much aside from players being unable to do unsafe things in your face since they'd eat some hefty damage for doing so, i don't think it'd be that drastic of a change.

can instant air stomp even punish a -13 move?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
can instant air stomp even punish a -13 move?
From my testing, you take at least one frame to jump. With this information in mind, I have been able to punish -14 moves on block, which, by the way, is extremely difficult to do, but not -13 moves. You will have to punish with d+1 or 2,1 into d,f+2.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
From my testing, you take at least one frame to jump. With this information in mind, I have been able to punish -14 moves on block, which, by the way, is extremely difficult to do, but not -13 moves. You will have to punish with d+1 or 2,1 into d,f+2.
yeah, thats my issue right there, i'd rather just spend the 2 bars for bounce cancel tbh.
 

geezy89

Weekend Warrior
I would like the impressions of everyone prior to the balance patch dropping soon. How would you rate Darkseid in your perspective during this timeframe. Do you regret maining him, how enjoyable do you find using him?

I started using Darkseid on Midnight during release date, I love the character his voice acting is great and animations are impressive. Nothing is more satisfying than landing a stomp and destroying your opponent's lifebar. Now as stated by other DS mains, his abhorrent normals leave plenty to be desired, but it forced me to evolve as a player and embrace his mix more than sit back and zone. My Darkseid play style has changed drastically and I'm very happy that this community has such great people will to help and make suggestions to improve our game.

I have zero regrets with this character and hope he isn't butchered. I would love it if they slightly adjusted the top tiers and left him as is currently.
I agree with everything in this post. I love playing this character, weaknesses and all. To M2Dave's point, the character is strong, but has exploitable weaknesses that make him fair. I hope he stays right where he is.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
@General M2Dave Can you share your approach to the Batman matchup? His trait seems to reduce the efficacy of Darkseid's zoning and parademon mixups quite a bit.
I have attained a good understanding of the Batman match thanks to King. First of all, understanding how Batman players utilize trait against Darkseid is important. Darkseid is not Cheetah or Scarecrow so the zoning with trait in combination with straight and up batarangs is immaterial against Darkseid. Omega beams easily trade with batarangs in Darkseid's favor and cause Batman to lose trait, which means the trait will mostly be used to approach you, usually in the following three ways.

1) Activate trait and walk forward. In order to counter this approach, meet Batman in footsies range and use d+3 and d,b+1, which are safe on block, even against trait, when spaced correctly. You can also jump or do an instant aerial teleport or stomp, but all of these options are risky. You can dash forward and throw, which is especially risky, but throwing causes Batman to lose trait, even when the throw is escaped successfully.

2) Activate trait, release trait, and dash forward. While Batman's trait has lots of hit stun, the block stun is minimal so you can try blocking and interrupting the following attack with d+1. I thought Sonic Fox did an excellent job implementing this strategy when he fought King's Batman with Joker at CEO. By the way, you can also teleport or instant aerial teleport preemptively, but these two options can be risky.

3) Activate trait, release trait, and jump 2. Unless Batman jumps on you from a really close range, Darkseid's uppercut always loses to jumping 2. When Batman has no trait, I try to anti-air with MB b+3. When he has trait, I anti-air preemptively with jump back 1 or jump back 3. Whether you trade or anti-air jumping 2 successfully, the trait may still you, but Batman gets no follows ups. You can also teleport or instant aerial teleport preemptively, which can be risky.

You can of course always push block or activate your own trait in order to stop Batman's approach, but Batman will have trait more frequently than you will have meter or your own trait. With adequate match up experience, you should be able to block Batman's grounded mix ups consistently, but blocking jumping 2 can be challenging. At least half the time, I highly doubt even Batman players know whether the move will cross up or not.

Finally, I would play a more offensive style over a zoning style in this match. Zoning for too long allows Batman to charge trait very frequently and you want to limit the trait quantity. Every time I get a knockdown I go for mix ups. Slide is not a threatening wake up attack so do not be reluctant to play offensively.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
so how do u handle the flash MU?
Thats the issue, if the Flash player knows what he is doing, there isnt much Darkseid can do. Zoning Flash is irrelevant, his footsies are godlike compared to Darkseid's and lets not forget his safe 50/50's into a shitload of dmg, which lead into ANOTHER guess and then death.

I really dont think Darkseid can do much against a Flash player who knows the MU. From my personal experience thats a losing MU for Darkseid.