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Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Post general strategies in this thread.

Current Impressions (July of 2017)

My rating of Darkseid, using the criteria of this thread.

1. 50/50 mix ups and/or pressure 4 / 5
Darkseid’s pressure is limited, but he does have a 50/50 mix up between meter burn b+1,u+3, an attack that begins with an overhead that starts up in 18 frames, and an instant aerial meter burn boom stomp (d,f+3 in air), a low attack that can be timed to start up on the same frame as b+1. Both moves are unsafe on block and thus the point deduction to this category, but hitting either one leads close to 40% of damage anywhere on the screen. You can use the Charging Parademon (b+4) and its charging attack (f+4) to force 50/50 mix ups by teleporting behind the opponent. You can also create a hard-to-blockable mix up anywhere on the screen using the overhead attack of the Charging Demon (4) and the down version of the MB Omega Beams. Similar tactics can be applied with the Explosive Parademon (f+4). Using grounded and aerial omega beams, train your opponents to crouch and block next to the demon and then teleport behind and throw them, which, if not escaped, results in a full combo. As far as frame advantage on block, Darkseid only has MB flying knee (b,f+3), which is +2 on block and causes d+1 to be uninterruptible.

2. Zoning and anti-zoning 5 / 5
Darkseid has great space control with the Omega Beams (d,f+1 on the ground and in the air). They start up fast, knock down, and stay active much longer than the average projectile in Injustice 2. The grounded version has a fair amount of recovery frames so executing the instant aerial omega beams is a requirement for any competitive Darkseid player. As far as anti-zoning is concerned, Darkseid has the Boom Tube (d,b+3), which is a teleport that can be done on the ground as well as in the air. The teleport is slow to start up at 19 frames but has good recovery. The mere threat discourages opponents from tossing fireballs recklessly and allows you to control the pace of the match with yours. Darkseid’s zoning is also strengthened by the Charging Parademon. A simple yet effective zoning strategy is to activate and stand by the demon. If you think your opponent is going to crouch and block, continue doing grounded and aerial omega beams. If you think your opponent is going to move, perform the demon charge. If the charge connects, the grounded omega beams can combo and send the opponent full screen away.

3. Neutral game and footsies 2 / 5
Darkseid has no fast advancing strings that can be hit-confirmed into launchers. In the current meta, almost all top tier characters have one dominant string that they can continuously use in footsies (i.e., Aquaman’s b+1,2, Black Adam’s f+1,2, Deadshot’s b+1,2, Superman’s f+2,3, etc.) Darkseid has nothing in comparison as every string either starts high, is very slow, has gaps, or lacks range, or a combination of the four. Darkseid’s best normal attack is d+3, which is one of the best sweeps because of its range and safety. When spaced properly, d+3 is safe on block, even against the fastest normal attacks and special moves. The low laser (d,b+1) has slightly more range than d+3 but has eight additional recovery frames on block and hence should only be used at a range where the tip of the laser hits. Both d+3 and d,b+1 have awful whiff recovery frames. If your opponent happens to jump, you will take massive damage, and Darkseid’s anti-aerial game is subpar. You are required to anti-air preemptively with instant aerial omega beams or MB b+3. Jumps, instant aerial stomps, and instant aerial teleports may also be applied to footsies, but I usually consider them high risk and high reward options, depending on the match.

4. Defensive options 4 / 5
The flying knee, which is -10 on block, is semi-invincible as a wake up attack. The MB version puts Darkseid at +2 and contains two quick consecutive attacks, making the move difficult to crush with MB b+3s or f+3s. The MB version also advances Darkseid forward which causes some set ups to whiff. Darkseid has a six frame d+1, useful for interrupting and punishing certain strings, that is cancelable into the palm blast (d,f+2) for massive hit advantage. You can use d+1 as a “get off me” move too by canceling into the MB flying knee and transitioning from defense to offense because of the frame advantage. Darkseid’s back dash is average, but an opportune teleport can be used to switch sides before you get cornered. Unfortunately, Darkseid's standing and crouching hitbox is one of the largest in the game so he is forced to block certain strings and projectiles that whiff on most characters. Finally, Darkseid takes more damage than the average character does but only by a couple of percentage points. Given the abundant strengths are combined with a few weaknesses, I believe a score of 4/5 is appropriate for this category.

5. Damage output 5 / 5
Using one bar of meter, combos consistently deal close to 40% of damage depending on the juggle starter. b+3, jumping 3, jumping 2 xx stomp is easy to execute and works after most of Darkseid’s juggle starters, such as MB b+1,u+3 and MB stomp. f+2,3, jumping 3 xx stomp does very good meter-less damage for a punishing combo

Total Points - 20 / 25

Trait Overview (July of 2017)

Flying Parademon (4) - only useful full screen away
4 - the fireball technically hits mid but its hitbox starts off very high and gradually arcs down causing whiffs unless your opponent is really far away. However, the fireball provides the most block advantage out of any other Parademon attack. A blocked full screen fireball is at least +60 on block so you can teleport and mix up your opponent using MB b+1,u+3 or an instant aerial MB stomp.
f+4 - the flying attack technically hits mid but whiffs on all crouching opponents. Treat this move as an anti-aerial attack, which guarantees a grounded omega beam if you hit your opponent airborne. An additional benefit is that the move can connect after 2,2,1+3 for combos.

Charging Parademon (b+4) - the most versatile Parademon, particularly in footsies and zoning
4 - the dive is a slow overhead attack. You can perform MB low omega beam when far away or an instant aerial MB stomp when close to create hard-to-blockable set ups.
f+4 - the charge is arguably the most versatile Parademon attack. You can use the charge to create safe zoning scenarios that would otherwise be highly unsafe, such as using grounded omega beams in footsies and having the Parademon punish any retaliations. Likewise, you can use the the charge to force 50/50 mix ups by teleporting behind the opponent and taking advantage of MB b+1,u+3 and an instant aerial MB stomp. The charge also starts up in only three frames and can punish MB forward dashes if positioned properly. The charge can anti-air too but has the least block advantage out of any other Parademon attack.

Explosive Parademon (f+4) - best used offensively, specifically in the corner
4 - the Explosive Parademon allows you to safely perform combos from various attacks. In the corner, summon this Parademon in the middle of the combo and finish the combo with d,f+2 in order to acquire the maximum frame advantage. Then force your opponent to guess between b+1, d+3 or low laser, and throw and have the Parademon explode to juggle or make your move safe on block.

Current Opinions on Match Ups (July of 2017)

Serious Advantage (7:3)
- None

Advantage (6:4)
- Bane
- Blue Beetle
- Captain Cold
- Cheetah
- Cyborg
- Dr. Fate
- Green Lantern
- Poison Ivy
- Robin

Even (5:5)
- Atrocitus
- Batman
- Brainiac
- Catwoman
- Deadshot
- Firestorm
- Flash
- Green Arrow
- Harley Quinn
- Supergirl
- Wonder Woman

Disadvantage (4:6)
- Aquaman
Aquaman is one of the very few characters who can control the pace of the match against Darkseid. The Tentacle Strike (d,b+2) punishes the grounded omega beam from far ranges, yet Darkseid can only punish the Tentacle Strike from mid range. Aquaman also has the best uppercut in the game so jumping should be done scarcely. The uppercut is accompanied by excellent normal attacks and an unrivaled ability to do chip damage. In order to succeed in this match, your set play has to be immaculate. You will have to take some risks with MB b+1,u+3 and MB instant aerial stomps in order to break down Aquaman's defense. When you get a life lead, you can block a full screen Tentacle Strike and perform an instant aerial omega beam followed by a grounded omega beam, which trades with the second Tentacle Strike. Follow this procedure cautiously, wait for your trait to recharge, and activate your trait after blocking a Tentacle Strike, which Aquaman cannot punish. In fact, you can block a Tentacle Strike and activate the Explosive Parademon. If the Aquaman player does another Tentacle Strike by the Explosive Parademon, you can teleport, have the demon explode, forward dash into an MB instant aerial stomp, and do a combo.
- Superman

Serious Disadvantage (3:7)
- Black Adam
Black Adam is the only character in the game who does more damage than Darkseid. Black Adam always hits as if he were doing Flash's combos in trait. He can easily take away 50% of your life using trait and one bar of meter. High damage output alone does not make a character top tier. Grundy in Injustice 1, for instance, arguably had the best damage output in the game, yet he was a low tier character. The difference is that Black Adam's high damage is derived from one of the best footsies tools in the game. f+1 hits high but starts up in 8 frames and has slightly more range than Superman's f+2. f+1,2 can be hit-confirmed into massive damage. On block, f+1,2 -> trait is around +4 and forces you to guess between a throw and f+3. Because f+1 hits high, you can anticipate the attack, crouch, and whiff punish, but doing so leaves you open to jumping attacks, which lead to 50% combos, and MB dive kicks, which lead to 40% combos. So if you stand and block, you are forced to deal with mix ups while taking guaranteed chip damage from trait. If you crouch and poke, you risk being jumped on or getting hit by an MB dive kick, both of which lead to massive combos. Darkseid, who is already very weak in footsies range, cannot handle such damage output and oppression. To make matters worse, Black Adam has knock down set ups that force you to guess between a close MB dive kick (non-cross up) and a far MB dive kick (cross up). Even if you block correctly, you get nothing because the MB dive kicks are safe on block. The only way in which Darkseid can win this match is to get lucky, score a knock down, and abuse Black Adam's poor wake up options. But remember that if he blocks b+1,u+3 or an instant aerial stomp, you lose 50% of your life, or more.

To Be Determined
- Black Canary (6:4?)
- Gorilla Grodd (6:4?)
- Joker (6:4?)
- Red Hood (5:5?)
- Starfire
- Sub Zero
- Swamp Thing (6:4?)
 
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you can get a little tricky with his tele either going for a mb boot stomp into b3 or a j2 into mb bootstomp into a b3 and combo after. ot seeing much damage for him as of now. didnt they show in his reveal a back laser? idk if they removed it or im just crazy
 
also if you grab with the explosive demon near the opponent instead of finishing the grab it will automatically explodes granting a popup into a b3 combo
 

CrazyFingers

Kollector Main DEFINITELY
Moderator
Oh I should give notations for my B&B's ive been doing.

Midscreen
Boot Stomp MB, B3, Ji3, F2 xx DF2

B2U3 MB, B3, Ji3, 22 xx DF2

F23, F23, F2 xx DF2

Two Bar Big Boy Damage Midscreen

MB B3, Ji3, B2U3 MB, S3 xx DF2 (This does like 50%)

Corner

Launcher, F3, 22, 11 xx DF2.

The DF2 ender guarantees a trait summon so in the corner it gets nuts.

When I get home later today I'll be looking into the corner more. I feel comfortable with my midscreen B&Bs
 

CrazyFingers

Kollector Main DEFINITELY
Moderator
Combo video I made, enjoy


This was from like less than an hour in practice mode. This character has some potential for sure
For real the potential is so damn high. I'll check this video out when I get the chance. When I get back home I'll be messing with more damage less hit advantage (The combos I mentioned are less damage for a 100% free trait summon)
 
got all of 20 mins in with him this morning before work but so far I think he has potential .

you can tk his lasers pretty easily if you start with up back , covers the skies and most chars standing. his b12 is + on block iirc . tk stomp is unsafe but hard to see. f23 is only -5 on block so its safe against most of the cast and leads to at the very least b1u3mb b3 j2 2xdf2 for 320 for one bar .

got 0% practice with his trait , but first thing I want to try in the lab when I get off work is combo into b3 then trait and see if I can land a f23 or something like Robin can to get his trait out safely.
 

CrazyFingers

Kollector Main DEFINITELY
Moderator
got all of 20 mins in with him this morning before work but so far I think he has potential .

you can tk his lasers pretty easily if you start with up back , covers the skies and most chars standing. his b12 is + on block iirc . tk stomp is unsafe but hard to see. f23 is only -5 on block so its safe against most of the cast and leads to at the very least b1u3mb b3 j2 2xdf2 for 320 for one bar .

got 0% practice with his trait , but first thing I want to try in the lab when I get off work is combo into b3 then trait and see if I can land a f23 or something like Robin can to get his trait out safely.
DF2 has enough hit advantage that you can get a trait summon safely against most (if not the whole) cast. I'll have to test it with every character to make sure tho. I'll get back to you on that one.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Seems like using 1232 as an ender when you can (timing/spacing is a bit fickle) ends in a hard knockdown that leaves them at a good range to follow up with a jump-in air-normal/stomp mix-up. If you're too close or do it too early the 3 whiffs and if you're too late or there's too much gravity from a heavier jump-in the second 2 will miss, so it seems j1 after a b3 is the best lead-in for it in your bnb's.
 
if you summon the flying demon and then teleport it will remain of the original side it was summoned on for a second or two before then switching sides. so you can fire a fireball as your teleporting. my timeing isnt great so someone test this to see if this is hard to block at all. The fireball is also plus on block i believe
 

Wavy

I played Ares
I faced a Darkseid online that bullied me lol. He teleported into another teleport and my attack whiffed on the other side while he was standing behind me(played as scarecrow). Not sure how useful that is against fast characters. d1 helped but sometimes when i went to punish i just completely whiffed to the opposite side.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
As mentioned above, lack of a solid mid normal attack and a solid special launcher move seem to be his biggest problems. Imo, his low omega beams should have a mb version which launches and f2 should either be a 13f mid, or leave it high and make it faster.

He seems fun to play with though.
 

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
These 4 bar combos for over 50% of their life are awesome, but I feel they are unrealistic because he will more often than not be spending his meter on his eye beams. I've also noticed that darkseid can get zoned out himself by characters like deadshot and firestorm. They just recover too quick for his teleport to matter in the matchup that much. Also his s2 is a 9f mid just has poor range and he has gaps in that string after s2. I also feel that none of the s2 follow ups coming out on whiff is an issue, as I can see whiff punishing w 22 or 21 being pretty good. Also 21 will whiff at the max range of the 2 which is just annoying. Another issue is that on floating characters his db1 is strangely unreliable. Ik I'm kinda rambling but this character is really cool I just wish f2 was a mid.

Anyway Darkseid is a badass and currently has a planet in the multiverse that nets you some sweet looking gear :)