I agree with you that checking opponents is an issue, but which moves are you struggling to punish with Darkseid?
You can use d+1 -> palm blast to punish any move that is -7 on block or more.
Palm blast has very good range and punishes lots of moves that are -12 on block or more. Some punishes include Catwoman's low whip when in range, Deadshot's b+1,2,u+3, even when canceled into wrist cannon or knee, Firestorm's charge, albeit f+2,3 is more difficult but works too, Red Hood's forward lunge and 3,3,2,u+2 in trait, Supergirl's ice breath, etc. How many characters have a single option to punish all these moves on block?
Palm blast is always superior to low laser, but use the low laser to punish Aquaman's trident rush, even when perfectly spaced, in order avoid the last hit of palm blast being blocked in trait, even though you could meter burn and take the frame advantage.
For big punishes, use f+2,3 or instant aerial stomp, which is possible to execute on the 14th frame but realistically on the 16th or 17th. You can use f+2,3 on some whiffs in footsies too such as backdashing Green Lantern's b+1,3. MB b+1,u+3 may also have to be used in some rare situations such as blocking Bane's elbow or Batman's slide.
Darkseid's damage excels more in the midscreen section than the corner, furthermore BPD and GPD allow for safe teleports and mix-up opportunities than RPD. Also you have to instill the fear of the mix, and the BPD/GPD help reinforce that hesitation in your opponent.Hey Darkseid players, something I thought of today: Why don't more Darkseid players use Explosive Parademon for Throw combos?
Follow standard zoning procedure unless Bane activates venom level 3. As you zone with grounded and aerial omega beams, use the charging demon to force the Bane player to guess between blocking and dashing forward. When trait is recharging, use lots of backward movement such as back dashes and back jumps to stay away. If the Bane player over-commits, teleport to the other side of the screen to avoid getting cornered. Use well-spaced low lasers and d+3s in footsies range. These two moves are very susceptible to venom command grabs, but Darkseid arguably has the best command grab whiff punishing tool in the game. Simply neutral jump and stomp when you see the command grab whiff animation. When you get knocked down, delayed wake up (stance switch button) and EX flying knee are very effective. I think the flying knee has frames in which Bane cannot command throw you, which is very useful. I would also never rush Bane down unless he is in venom de-buff mode.Kind of new to this site but this thread seemed the most relevant to ask this.. but i need some tips on how to play against bane as a darkseid player. i feel like im struggling to zone against him and his close combat is smoking me.
To add to this: if you block a charge from Bane, I believe df2 is an actual punish.Follow standard zoning procedure unless Bane activates venom level 3. As you zone with grounded and aerial omega beams, use the charging demon to force the Bane player to guess between blocking and dashing forward. When trait is recharging, use lots of backward movement such as back dashes and back jumps to stay away. If the Bane player over-commits, teleport to the other side of the screen to avoid getting cornered. Use well-spaced low lasers and d+3s in footsies range. These two moves are very susceptible to venom command grabs, but Darkseid arguably has the best command grab whiff punishing tool in the game. Simply neutral jump and stomp when you see the command grab whiff animation. When you get knocked down, delayed wake up (stance switch button) and EX flying knee are very effective. I think the flying knee has frames in which Bane cannot command throw you, which is very useful. I would also never rush Bane down unless he is in venom de-buff mode.
I will create a Darkseid match up thread soon, but I believe this match up is either even or in Darkseid's favor.
Right. I did not know. Very good observation. @Metzos , I guess the charge is yet another move to add to the d,f+2 punishing list. LOL.To add to this: if you block a charge from Bane, I believe df2 is an actual punish.
"Counter Punish" or whatever it says means that I punished during his negative frames, right?
this was very helpful, i was winning most of my matchups lastnight utilizing the delated wakeup more and DPDFollow standard zoning procedure unless Bane activates venom level 3. As you zone with grounded and aerial omega beams, use the charging demon to force the Bane player to guess between blocking and dashing forward. When trait is recharging, use lots of backward movement such as back dashes and back jumps to stay away. If the Bane player over-commits, teleport to the other side of the screen to avoid getting cornered. Use well-spaced low lasers and d+3s in footsies range. These two moves are very susceptible to venom command grabs, but Darkseid arguably has the best command grab whiff punishing tool in the game. Simply neutral jump and stomp when you see the command grab whiff animation. When you get knocked down, delayed wake up (stance switch button) and EX flying knee are very effective. I think the flying knee has frames in which Bane cannot command throw you, which is very useful. I would also never rush Bane down unless he is in venom de-buff mode.
I will create a Darkseid match up thread soon, but I believe this match up is either even or in Darkseid's favor.
Any tips on the catwoman matchup? I'm having a hard time fighting her. She doesn't seem to have a very hard time getting arround his zoning. I'm punishing mb catdash with d1 palm and j2 with mbb3 and air lasers consistently now, I'm also backdashing and poking her gaps, those raw b3s are getting really annoying but I'm also consistent punishing with neutral jump 3 stomp or mbf3. With that said, I feel like she can get very overwhelming up close, specially in the corner. Her jump makes the overhead trait whiff a lot of the times, I'm not sure why as this doesn't seem to be an issue against most characters. Also, cat dash and mb cat dash go through straight lasers randomly so sometimes when I'm trying to make her respect my neutral with trait, I send the charging minion and an omega beam and she simply cat dashes through it and I get punished. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong but this matchup is not feeling 5/5 for me at all.The original post has been updated with current impressions and opinions on match ups.
I believe you definitely play the match correctly based on the information you provided. However, do you use d+3 at all? I would stand in d+3's max range because of the following reasons.Any tips on the catwoman matchup? I'm having a hard time fighting her. She doesn't seem to have a very hard time getting arround his zoning. I'm punishing mb catdash with d1 palm and j2 with mbb3 and air lasers consistently now, I'm also backdashing and poking her gaps, those raw b3s are getting really annoying but I'm also consistent punishing with neutral jump 3 stomp or mbf3. With that said, I feel like she can get very overwhelming up close, specially in the corner. Her jump makes the overhead trait whiff a lot of the times, I'm not sure why as this doesn't seem to be an issue against most characters. Also, cat dash and mb cat dash go through straight lasers randomly so sometimes when I'm trying to make her respect my neutral with trait, I send the charging minion and an omega beam and she simply cat dashes through it and I get punished. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong but this matchup is not feeling 5/5 for me at all.
Thanks for the tips! I tend to forget about his sweep sometimes, and I didn't know about the palm punish on low whip. I'll implement some changes, play the matchup some more and see how it goes.I believe you definitely play the match correctly based on the information you provided. However, do you use d+3 at all? I would stand in d+3's max range because of the following reasons.
- You can poke carefully with d+3. Catwoman players cannot check you with anything so they
will either jump or use MB b+3.
- Be prepared to react and use MB b+3 when they jump. You can preemptively use an instant aerial omega beam, but you leave yourself open to Catwoman's own MB b+3.
- Speaking of Catwoman's MB b+3, but you can jump back and whiff punish with MB stomp. The jump back leaves you out of Catwoman's jumping 2 range.
- Being in d+2's max range also allows you to punish low whip with d,f+2.
Some of these options require meter such as anti-airing jumping 2 with MB b+3 or whiff punishing MB b+3 with jump back MB stomp, but none of them require trait. So when you guess correctly, finish combos with d,f+2, activate trait, and force the Catwoman player to guess between cross ups and non-cross ups, overheads and lows, and throws (using the Explosive Parademon). You can do lots of damage and end the round quickly, which is why I think the match up may be even.
Fighting Black Adam and Superman feels a lot worse than Catwoman to me. Black Adam in particular is brutal.
Having the Parademon charge at the opponent and teleporting causes the charge to cross up. However, holding down blocks mid and low attacks from both sides so there are no 50/50 mix ups or hard-to-blockable mix ups without the inclusion of overhead attacks. You can have the charging Parademon perform the overhead attack and do MB low omega beam when far away or MB stomp when close which act as hard-to-blockable mix ups. However, keep in mind that the goal is to give the opponent a very small gap (i.e., one or two frames) while transitioning from blocking high to low or low to high. If the overhead attack hits on the same frame as the low attack or vice versa, the game offers you protection and simply allows you to block either high or low. I hope this description makes some sense.so, if you do the charging parademon setup, the one where the demon is running at them from 1 direction but your attacking from another, is that a hard to block or can they block the demon so long as they block darkseid? i havent actually gone into the lab to test this for some reason ._.
thats what i was gonna say, i usually do that setup with darkseids b1, so that makes it a legit htb then huh?Having the Parademon charge at the opponent and teleporting causes the charge to cross up. However, holding down blocks mid and low attacks from both sides so there are no 50/50 mix ups or hard-to-blockable mix ups without the inclusion of overhead attacks. You can have the charging Parademon perform the overhead attack and do MB low omega beam when far away or MB stomp when close which act as hard-to-blockable mix ups. However, keep in mind that the goal is to give the opponent a very small gap (i.e., one or two frames) while transitioning from blocking high to low or low to high. If the overhead attack hits on the same frame as the low attack or vice versa, the game offers you protection and simply allows you to block either high or low. I hope this description makes some sense.
If timed correctly, yes. Use MB stomp too. Also use the Explosive Parademon. The more options you use the more difficulty your opponent will have guessing what is coming.thats what i was gonna say, i usually do that setup with darkseids b1, so that makes it a legit htb then huh?