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Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

LIT1

Noob
Kind of new to this site but this thread seemed the most relevant to ask this.. but i need some tips on how to play against bane as a darkseid player. i feel like im struggling to zone against him and his close combat is smoking me.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I agree with you that checking opponents is an issue, but which moves are you struggling to punish with Darkseid?

You can use d+1 -> palm blast to punish any move that is -7 on block or more.

Palm blast has very good range and punishes lots of moves that are -12 on block or more. Some punishes include Catwoman's low whip when in range, Deadshot's b+1,2,u+3, even when canceled into wrist cannon or knee, Firestorm's charge, albeit f+2,3 is more difficult but works too, Red Hood's forward lunge and 3,3,2,u+2 in trait, Supergirl's ice breath, etc. How many characters have a single option to punish all these moves on block?

Palm blast is always superior to low laser, but use the low laser to punish Aquaman's trident rush, even when perfectly spaced, in order avoid the last hit of palm blast being blocked in trait, even though you could meter burn and take the frame advantage.

For big punishes, use f+2,3 or instant aerial stomp, which is possible to execute on the 14th frame but realistically on the 16th or 17th. You can use f+2,3 on some whiffs in footsies too such as backdashing Green Lantern's b+1,3. MB b+1,u+3 may also have to be used in some rare situations such as blocking Bane's elbow or Batman's slide.

You have a point. Could be that the online is affecting my punishing reactions, since i m not close to an offline competitive enviroment now. Although there are times that i tried to punish stuff with d1xxpalm blast and the 1st hit of pb whiffed.

What i meant was that since f2 is a true high, sometimes it whiffs when i try to punish something that is above -14f. And lets be honest, palm blast does not deal that much dmg to call it a punish. It provides a good trait activation, but thats it.

Question: You mentioned using low laser to punish trident rush. Is that a legit punish? Like from everywhere? Havent labbed it, so i dont know.
 

Raiderhorn

White Lotus
Hey Darkseid players, something I thought of today: Why don't more Darkseid players use Explosive Parademon for Throw combos?
 
Hey Darkseid players, something I thought of today: Why don't more Darkseid players use Explosive Parademon for Throw combos?
Darkseid's damage excels more in the midscreen section than the corner, furthermore BPD and GPD allow for safe teleports and mix-up opportunities than RPD. Also you have to instill the fear of the mix, and the BPD/GPD help reinforce that hesitation in your opponent.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Kind of new to this site but this thread seemed the most relevant to ask this.. but i need some tips on how to play against bane as a darkseid player. i feel like im struggling to zone against him and his close combat is smoking me.
Follow standard zoning procedure unless Bane activates venom level 3. As you zone with grounded and aerial omega beams, use the charging demon to force the Bane player to guess between blocking and dashing forward. When trait is recharging, use lots of backward movement such as back dashes and back jumps to stay away. If the Bane player over-commits, teleport to the other side of the screen to avoid getting cornered. Use well-spaced low lasers and d+3s in footsies range. These two moves are very susceptible to venom command grabs, but Darkseid arguably has the best command grab whiff punishing tool in the game. Simply neutral jump and stomp when you see the command grab whiff animation. When you get knocked down, delayed wake up (stance switch button) and EX flying knee are very effective. I think the flying knee has frames in which Bane cannot command throw you, which is very useful. I would also never rush Bane down unless he is in venom de-buff mode.

I will create a Darkseid match up thread soon, but I believe this match up is either even or in Darkseid's favor.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Follow standard zoning procedure unless Bane activates venom level 3. As you zone with grounded and aerial omega beams, use the charging demon to force the Bane player to guess between blocking and dashing forward. When trait is recharging, use lots of backward movement such as back dashes and back jumps to stay away. If the Bane player over-commits, teleport to the other side of the screen to avoid getting cornered. Use well-spaced low lasers and d+3s in footsies range. These two moves are very susceptible to venom command grabs, but Darkseid arguably has the best command grab whiff punishing tool in the game. Simply neutral jump and stomp when you see the command grab whiff animation. When you get knocked down, delayed wake up (stance switch button) and EX flying knee are very effective. I think the flying knee has frames in which Bane cannot command throw you, which is very useful. I would also never rush Bane down unless he is in venom de-buff mode.

I will create a Darkseid match up thread soon, but I believe this match up is either even or in Darkseid's favor.
To add to this: if you block a charge from Bane, I believe df2 is an actual punish.

"Counter Punish" or whatever it says means that I punished during his negative frames, right?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
To add to this: if you block a charge from Bane, I believe df2 is an actual punish.

"Counter Punish" or whatever it says means that I punished during his negative frames, right?
Right. I did not know. Very good observation. @Metzos , I guess the charge is yet another move to add to the d,f+2 punishing list. LOL.

d,f+2 also punishes Bane's overhead elbow consistently. Ideally, you want to punish with MB b+1,u+3, but the push back causes. I actually have not played against Bane since the second week of the game's release when I fought King Jr.
 

Wavy

Block Spammer
Does anyone here ever consistently use flying demon trait? Someone tried claiming to me that it's worthwhile at mid because it has a 60 frame block stun. I'm here thinking to myself it's duckable and the running guys block stun is good enough. What options does it give you to make it worthwhile in comparison to the other two minions? Because I cannot for the life of me figure out its usefulness. I don't see much high level stream matches use it as well.

Probably already noted on here or discord. I was labbing that trait and came across 22 1+3 air fireball causes a weird looking restand in the corner. I don't know what the advantage is or how far from the corner you can do it. Seemed kind of useless but I didn't bother looking too much into that. Edit: RIP indeed. Only works on a standing opponent. Cant combo into it because it juggles. That suxx.
 
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LIT1

Noob
Follow standard zoning procedure unless Bane activates venom level 3. As you zone with grounded and aerial omega beams, use the charging demon to force the Bane player to guess between blocking and dashing forward. When trait is recharging, use lots of backward movement such as back dashes and back jumps to stay away. If the Bane player over-commits, teleport to the other side of the screen to avoid getting cornered. Use well-spaced low lasers and d+3s in footsies range. These two moves are very susceptible to venom command grabs, but Darkseid arguably has the best command grab whiff punishing tool in the game. Simply neutral jump and stomp when you see the command grab whiff animation. When you get knocked down, delayed wake up (stance switch button) and EX flying knee are very effective. I think the flying knee has frames in which Bane cannot command throw you, which is very useful. I would also never rush Bane down unless he is in venom de-buff mode.

I will create a Darkseid match up thread soon, but I believe this match up is either even or in Darkseid's favor.
this was very helpful, i was winning most of my matchups lastnight utilizing the delated wakeup more and DPD
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Darkseid – Adjusted Low Omega Beam’s hit region to collide more consistently

Darkseid - Fixed a bug which allowed for the Parademon Character Power to sometimes be able to attack in situations where you were in a throw state

Darkseid - Fixed bug where Explosive Demon could be summoned in the background if used immediately following a Background Bounce Interaction

Darkseid - Fixed bug causing a summoned Charging Parademon to perform Demon Charge attack in the wrong direction in certain circumstances


So apparently the hitbox of the low omega beam has been fixed. You can also summon the Charging Parademon, teleport, and have the Parademon perform the charge in the correct direction.
 

SE1Z3

Noob
Charging Parademon (f+4) confirmed working, no longer charges off screen when performing the Ground Boom Tube crossup setup. However, I have already had the Overhead Attack bug out as usual in a few ranked matches. I'm referring to if you press 4 before inputting either db3 or instant-air db3 which will cause the Parademon's portal to appear just in front of the enemy, causing it to completely whiff and thus nullifying your setup/leaving you to be punished.

It's still possible to just continue doing what we have been doing, which is make sure to input db3 or instant-air db3 before activating the Overhead (4). I was hoping both of these issues would have been addressed in this fix, but I'm happy to see any improvement before EVO. Hail Darkseid! :)

-SE1Z3 aka @franciscapra
 

kcd117

Noob
The original post has been updated with current impressions and opinions on match ups.
Any tips on the catwoman matchup? I'm having a hard time fighting her. She doesn't seem to have a very hard time getting arround his zoning. I'm punishing mb catdash with d1 palm and j2 with mbb3 and air lasers consistently now, I'm also backdashing and poking her gaps, those raw b3s are getting really annoying but I'm also consistent punishing with neutral jump 3 stomp or mbf3. With that said, I feel like she can get very overwhelming up close, specially in the corner. Her jump makes the overhead trait whiff a lot of the times, I'm not sure why as this doesn't seem to be an issue against most characters. Also, cat dash and mb cat dash go through straight lasers randomly so sometimes when I'm trying to make her respect my neutral with trait, I send the charging minion and an omega beam and she simply cat dashes through it and I get punished. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong but this matchup is not feeling 5/5 for me at all.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Any tips on the catwoman matchup? I'm having a hard time fighting her. She doesn't seem to have a very hard time getting arround his zoning. I'm punishing mb catdash with d1 palm and j2 with mbb3 and air lasers consistently now, I'm also backdashing and poking her gaps, those raw b3s are getting really annoying but I'm also consistent punishing with neutral jump 3 stomp or mbf3. With that said, I feel like she can get very overwhelming up close, specially in the corner. Her jump makes the overhead trait whiff a lot of the times, I'm not sure why as this doesn't seem to be an issue against most characters. Also, cat dash and mb cat dash go through straight lasers randomly so sometimes when I'm trying to make her respect my neutral with trait, I send the charging minion and an omega beam and she simply cat dashes through it and I get punished. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong but this matchup is not feeling 5/5 for me at all.
I believe you definitely play the match correctly based on the information you provided. However, do you use d+3 at all? I would stand in d+3's max range because of the following reasons.

- You can poke carefully with d+3. Catwoman players cannot check you with anything so they
will either jump or use MB b+3.
- Be prepared to react and use MB b+3 when they jump. You can preemptively use an instant aerial omega beam, but you leave yourself open to Catwoman's own MB b+3.
- Speaking of Catwoman's MB b+3, but you can jump back and whiff punish with MB stomp. The jump back leaves you out of Catwoman's jumping 2 range.
- Being in d+2's max range also allows you to punish low whip with d,f+2.

Some of these options require meter such as anti-airing jumping 2 with MB b+3 or whiff punishing MB b+3 with jump back MB stomp, but none of them require trait. So when you guess correctly, finish combos with d,f+2, activate trait, and force the Catwoman player to guess between cross ups and non-cross ups, overheads and lows, and throws (using the Explosive Parademon). You can do lots of damage and end the round quickly, which is why I think the match up may be even.

Fighting Black Adam and Superman feels a lot worse than Catwoman to me. Black Adam in particular is brutal.
 

kcd117

Noob
I believe you definitely play the match correctly based on the information you provided. However, do you use d+3 at all? I would stand in d+3's max range because of the following reasons.

- You can poke carefully with d+3. Catwoman players cannot check you with anything so they
will either jump or use MB b+3.
- Be prepared to react and use MB b+3 when they jump. You can preemptively use an instant aerial omega beam, but you leave yourself open to Catwoman's own MB b+3.
- Speaking of Catwoman's MB b+3, but you can jump back and whiff punish with MB stomp. The jump back leaves you out of Catwoman's jumping 2 range.
- Being in d+2's max range also allows you to punish low whip with d,f+2.

Some of these options require meter such as anti-airing jumping 2 with MB b+3 or whiff punishing MB b+3 with jump back MB stomp, but none of them require trait. So when you guess correctly, finish combos with d,f+2, activate trait, and force the Catwoman player to guess between cross ups and non-cross ups, overheads and lows, and throws (using the Explosive Parademon). You can do lots of damage and end the round quickly, which is why I think the match up may be even.

Fighting Black Adam and Superman feels a lot worse than Catwoman to me. Black Adam in particular is brutal.
Thanks for the tips! I tend to forget about his sweep sometimes, and I didn't know about the palm punish on low whip. I'll implement some changes, play the matchup some more and see how it goes.
Fighting a good superman or black adam is a definitely a nightmare.
 
I believe I found something today. I was running games against a Supergirl players and always use to get hit by her tele after I teleported. What I found is timing a tele ji3 or ji2 into doom stomp beat her teleport to full combo punish. I need to do more testing, but check it out fellas.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
so, if you do the charging parademon setup, the one where the demon is running at them from 1 direction but your attacking from another, is that a hard to block or can they block the demon so long as they block darkseid? i havent actually gone into the lab to test this for some reason ._.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
so, if you do the charging parademon setup, the one where the demon is running at them from 1 direction but your attacking from another, is that a hard to block or can they block the demon so long as they block darkseid? i havent actually gone into the lab to test this for some reason ._.
Having the Parademon charge at the opponent and teleporting causes the charge to cross up. However, holding down blocks mid and low attacks from both sides so there are no 50/50 mix ups or hard-to-blockable mix ups without the inclusion of overhead attacks. You can have the charging Parademon perform the overhead attack and do MB low omega beam when far away or MB stomp when close which act as hard-to-blockable mix ups. However, keep in mind that the goal is to give the opponent a very small gap (i.e., one or two frames) while transitioning from blocking high to low or low to high. If the overhead attack hits on the same frame as the low attack or vice versa, the game offers you protection and simply allows you to block either high or low. I hope this description makes some sense.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Having the Parademon charge at the opponent and teleporting causes the charge to cross up. However, holding down blocks mid and low attacks from both sides so there are no 50/50 mix ups or hard-to-blockable mix ups without the inclusion of overhead attacks. You can have the charging Parademon perform the overhead attack and do MB low omega beam when far away or MB stomp when close which act as hard-to-blockable mix ups. However, keep in mind that the goal is to give the opponent a very small gap (i.e., one or two frames) while transitioning from blocking high to low or low to high. If the overhead attack hits on the same frame as the low attack or vice versa, the game offers you protection and simply allows you to block either high or low. I hope this description makes some sense.
thats what i was gonna say, i usually do that setup with darkseids b1, so that makes it a legit htb then huh?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
thats what i was gonna say, i usually do that setup with darkseids b1, so that makes it a legit htb then huh?
If timed correctly, yes. Use MB stomp too. Also use the Explosive Parademon. The more options you use the more difficulty your opponent will have guessing what is coming.