Guide Cyber Sub-Zero Q&A: Ask a Question, Get an Answer

[GuamoKun]

Now I asked this in the MU forum for CSZ, but didn't get any response. So I'll ask here.

How do you guys feel about the CSZ vs LK matchup? I'd say 6-4 in Liu's favor. I haven't really fought any good CSZ. But I know iafb (and parry?) will beat divekick, low fireball beats slide (unless enhanced), in theory I suppose you could flykick bombs (unlikely unless they get predictable). But I have NO clue about CSZ normals. Also, Liu's wake-up game is crap, so many times I've been rushed down once they knock me down.
Your thoughts?

CSZ's EX Slide has no armor. CSZ's fastest standing normal is 9 frames and Liu has the option to not respect the parry since CSZ's parry does not protect against lows.

 

[Squeaker101]

CSZ's EX Slide has no armor. CSZ's fastest standing normal is 9 frames and Liu has the option to not respect the parry since CSZ's parry does not protect against lows.

It doesn't? My sympathies. Funny, Liu's fastest standing normal is at 9 frames also. Oddly enough, it happened like 3 times, but it HAS parried lows, so many times I've tried to punish a parry with b312, but they instantly do another parry, and it parries.

 

[RampaginDragon]

Now I asked this in the MU forum for CSZ, but didn't get any response. So I'll ask here.

How do you guys feel about the CSZ vs LK matchup? I'd say 6-4 in Liu's favor. I haven't really fought any good CSZ. But I know iafb (and parry?) will beat divekick, low fireball beats slide (unless enhanced), in theory I suppose you could flykick bombs (unlikely unless they get predictable). But I have NO clue about CSZ normals. Also, Liu's wake-up game is crap, so many times I've been rushed down once they knock me down.
Your thoughts?

Correct. Liu can zone and rush down CSZ. CSZ's best beat is to try to get in and apply pressure first. CSZ's normals are decent. Pretty fast, and good mix-up. Not a hard MU for Liu, he can zone until CSZ gets in, and there he still wins. Also, CSZ's slide dosnt have armor on ex.

 

[Alice]

CSZ's EX Slide has no armor. CSZ's fastest standing normal is 9 frames and Liu has the option to not respect the parry since CSZ's parry does not protect against lows.

5 frames isn't it? I thought that standing 1 is 5 frames.

 

[Gilbagz]

5 frames isn't it? I thought that standing 1 is 5 frames.

5 frames? No way the only move I can think of that is 5 frames is like reptiles dash, and im not even sure of that lol. The fastest normal is 6 frames.

 

[Alice]

5 frames? No way the only move I can think of that is 5 frames is like reptiles dash, and im not even sure of that lol. The fastest normal is 6 frames.

Shit you're right. Still doesn't change my game atm, i go all feet. But thx for the headsup

 

[SunnyD]

Does anyone have a solution to the negative edge on the 3 string? Dashing in, then doing the 3 string always yield s a mid bomb for me. It probably the worst negative edge in the game. Makes the character unplayable for me.

 

[Gilbagz]

Does anyone have a solution to the negative edge on the 3 string? Dashing in, then doing the 3 string always yield s a mid bomb for me. It probably the worst negative edge in the game. Makes the character unplayable for me.

What I do is, dash tap b then hit 3 into w/e string you want

 

[YourInnerScrub]

how is CSZ ranked on a competitive level?

 

[Alice]

how is CSZ ranked on a competitive level?

He is doing fine altough there are certain characters where you need to counterpick. Or have balls.

 

[Alice]

A thing with rushdown, I usually go with 332-bomb dive-ex dive. After a freeze it is not that bad with the added 15 it is a 47% damage at least, with ex dive more. It is kinda safe.
With the 332-bomb,dash,b22-bomb,dash,33,u4,bomb,dash,3,4,etc. i have the problem that after the first b22 you have to leave a small window or else your bomb won't come out, or will glitch and blow behind the enemy where there was no bomb at all.
In that small window CSZ becomes vulnerable thus making this string not that safe.
How can I eliminate that window after the b22? Or what to do to make it safer?

 

[Quito]

best way to punish mileena roll? close bomb then 2,1, 2+1 on block?

 

[Alice]

best way to punish mileena roll? close bomb then 2,1, 2+1 on block?

She can poke you out of it, the bomb will hit most likely but she can tech roll.
With a 3,4 slide she can't tech, and you can react to Mileenas wakeup, or go on with 3,4-332 strings without the stake of whiff and be punished. U4, mid bomb is risky but helps the pressure a lot with that bomb. Whatever happens CSZ can keep up the 200 km/h
thats just ust my oppinion...

 

[Gilbagz]

She can poke you out of it, the bomb will hit most likely but she can tech roll.
With a 3,4 slide she can't tech, and you can react to Mileenas wakeup, or go on with 3,4-332 strings without the stake of whiff and be punished. U4, mid bomb is risky but helps the pressure a lot with that bomb. Whatever happens CSZ can keep up the 200 km/h
thats just ust my oppinion...

What I think he's trying to do is create something similar to u+4 bomb trap.
You drop the close bomb and start doing 2,1,1+2. Since she can block immediately as she touches the ground but if the timing is right, maybe the 1+2 hits as the bomb explodes, giving you the launch into a combo.
I haven't tested it, but seems like it might work if the timings are all right.
Personally, I just do the njp into u+4 slide or bomb to punish Mileena's roll.

 

[Alice]

What I think he's trying to do is create something similar to u+4 bomb trap.
You drop the close bomb and start doing 2,1,1+2. Since she can block immediately as she touches the ground but if the timing is right, maybe the 1+2 hits as the bomb explodes, giving you the launch into a combo.
I haven't tested it, but seems like it might work if the timings are all right.
Personally, I just do the njp into u+4 slide or bomb to punish Mileena's roll.

Yes, it could happen, sure. I've done such string before.
Still I believe that she can poke you out of your 2,1,2+1. And she can crouh block idk if she can just duck the first two hits. The first hits high, the second medium, the third medium, but Mileena can interrupt the third hit with a roll i think. or poke.

 

[Quito]

2 questions here :
best way to punish mileena ex telekick?
and how you guys connect the slide after b2,2

 

[sub_on_dubs]

Why is this character so free and what nerfs does he need so Jade can beat him 10-0?

 

[_xFriction]

Why is this character so free and what nerfs does he need so Jade can beat him 10-0?

Wrong sub zero bub - get back behind your clone and cower

 

[Runiix]

Im thinking of picking up Cyber Sub.
And actually as a "Second main" ... Currently i play Smoke and normal Sub main. (Scorp and Noob as pocket chars)
So i got quite a few questions, and i thought it would be better to ask them in here, rather than making a totally new thread.

1. Worst MU?
2. Best strings... And i mean, only those that needs to be learned.
3. Best specials? Is there anything i need to just leave out?
4. How important are the bombs and how often should i use them? Or are they only situational, like against really offensive people?
5. Do u pretty much ignore his portal in online gameplay?
6. How important is the self freeze? I guess u dont wanna abuse this, but u gotta read your opponent abit...
7. Is he overly dependent on his dive kick?
8. Is he mostly a rushdown or offensive fighter? - Or can he be used great for everything? Even zoning with the bombs, and zone somewhat similar to Noobs black holes?
9. And ofcourse, the coombos...

2 best/most solid/safe midscreen?
1 xray midscreen?
1-2 corner combos?
1 xray corner?

Why did u pick and stick with CSZ?
What is the best advantage with him? - Why should u use him, besides he is fun to play.
Other general tips, for a possible new Cyber Sub main?

Cheers!

 

[_xFriction]

snip

I'm not the greatest CSZ but I got a lot of him on my YT channel (shameless bump!)
http://www.youtube.com/user/rjmascitti?feature=mhee

 

[GuamoKun]

Im thinking of picking up Cyber Sub.
And actually as a "Second main" ... Currently i play Smoke and normal Sub main. (Scorp and Noob as pocket chars)
So i got quite a few questions, and i thought it would be better to ask them in here, rather than making a totally new thread.
Cheers!

1. Worst MU?
KUHBAWL Kitana and.....SUB-ZERO!
2. Best strings... And i mean, only those that needs to be learned.
21 1+2
34
33
b22
b312
f221
b22
3. Best specials? Is there anything i need to just leave out?
LEAVE OUT HIS TELEPORT OUTSIDE OF U4 TELEPORT
4. How important are the bombs and how often should i use them? Or are they only situational, like against really offensive people?
they're okay in controlling space but don't get greedy with them
5. Do u pretty much ignore his portal in online gameplay?
...portal? you mean the teleport? it sucks lol
6. How important is the self freeze? I guess u dont wanna abuse this, but u gotta read your opponent abit...
its good against characters like Cage and Kabal. or characters who get tooo greedy with rushdown.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/list-of-strings-interruptible-by-icy-counter.23821/
7. Is he overly dependent on his dive kick?
in some matchups yes...but in some you will have to avoid it
8. Is he mostly a rushdown or offensive fighter? - Or can he be used great for everything? Even zoning with the bombs, and zone somewhat similar to Noobs black holes?
he is a rushdown character but one that kinda gets advantage in the fact that his rhythm is weird and at times difficult to adjust too.
9. And ofcourse, the coombos...

2 best/most solid/safe midscreen?
21 Freeze jip 21 1+2 dash u4 slide
34 b22 slide
1 xray midscreen?
don't rely on it outside of X-Ray gimmicks
1-2 corner combos?
21 freeze back dash jip 21 1+2 njp u4 slide
34 34 34 34 slide
1 xray corner?
21 freeze jip 21 1+2 njp 21 1+2 instant jump kick into xray

Why did u pick and stick with CSZ?
Because I felt like it
What is the best advantage with him? - Why should u use him, besides he is fun to play.
best advantages he has are his weird gimmicks, in both rushdown and bomb setups. he is veeeeeeery weird to fight against if you aren't Kabal, Kitana or Sub-Zero
Other general tips, for a possible new Cyber Sub main?

All you want to know about CSZ credit to the CSZ messiah J360
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-in-depth-video-guide-by-j360.23939/

LEARN HIS FRAME DATA credit to Somberness
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-frame-data.8589/

Anti-airs are very important
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zeros-anti-airs.16920/

A completely overlooked thread that is still relevant
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-dive-kick-guide.7708/

 

[Runiix]

1. Worst MU?
KUHBAWL Kitana and.....SUB-ZERO!
2. Best strings... And i mean, only those that needs to be learned.
21 1+2
34
33
b22
b312
f221
b22
3. Best specials? Is there anything i need to just leave out?
LEAVE OUT HIS TELEPORT OUTSIDE OF U4 TELEPORT
4. How important are the bombs and how often should i use them? Or are they only situational, like against really offensive people?
they're okay in controlling space but don't get greedy with them
5. Do u pretty much ignore his portal in online gameplay?
...portal? you mean the teleport? it sucks lol
6. How important is the self freeze? I guess u dont wanna abuse this, but u gotta read your opponent abit...
its good against characters like Cage and Kabal. or characters who get tooo greedy with rushdown.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/list-of-strings-interruptible-by-icy-counter.23821/
7. Is he overly dependent on his dive kick?
in some matchups yes...but in some you will have to avoid it
8. Is he mostly a rushdown or offensive fighter? - Or can he be used great for everything? Even zoning with the bombs, and zone somewhat similar to Noobs black holes?
he is a rushdown character but one that kinda gets advantage in the fact that his rhythm is weird and at times difficult to adjust too.
9. And ofcourse, the coombos...

2 best/most solid/safe midscreen?
21 Freeze jip 21 1+2 dash u4 slide
34 b22 slide
1 xray midscreen?
don't rely on it outside of X-Ray gimmicks
1-2 corner combos?
21 freeze back dash jip 21 1+2 njp u4 slide
34 34 34 34 slide
1 xray corner?
21 freeze jip 21 1+2 njp 21 1+2 instant jump kick into xray

Why did u pick and stick with CSZ?
Because I felt like it
What is the best advantage with him? - Why should u use him, besides he is fun to play.
best advantages he has are his weird gimmicks, in both rushdown and bomb setups. he is veeeeeeery weird to fight against if you aren't Kabal, Kitana or Sub-Zero
Other general tips, for a possible new Cyber Sub main?

All you want to know about CSZ credit to the CSZ messiah J360
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-in-depth-video-guide-by-j360.23939/

LEARN HIS FRAME DATA credit to Somberness
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-frame-data.8589/

Anti-airs are very important
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zeros-anti-airs.16920/

A completely overlooked thread that is still relevant
http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-dive-kick-guide.7708/

Pretty much what i was looking for. Thanks alot dude!
It takes some time to get used to him though, he got a different feel than all the others imo.