Complaining about deadshot? I have a ? for you.

[GAV]

Deadshot, Blue Beetle, & Firestorm really take the cake for missed opportunity and poor animation. Deadshot shoots at you like he's scared of the wrist cannons lmao - yet the projectile (almost) jails and keeps you from doing anything. That's satirical as hell from my standpoint.

I'm not trying to be amidst the sea of complainers, but yeah.... bad design indeed.

The game has only been out for 2 days though guys, I'm sure that there's a way to get around the projectile

Something tells me Firestorm is a very clear counterpick for Deadshot.

 

[Shaka]

I think people also don't realize that the stage sizes are smaller, meaning that you're constantly at risk for having a projectile jumped, and also that non-ex projectiles usually cancel each other out. And that certain SF characters have also traditionally been given projectile invulnerable moves and options.

Sometimes I think people don't actually watch zoning in the games they champion.

But either way, it still doesn't tell you whether or not Deadshot is cool. That will take a lot of trail and error and time.

If they can do it so do we.

 

[WhooFlungPoo]

Deadshot, Blue Beetle, & Firestorm really take the cake for missed opportunity and poor animation. Deadshot shoots at you like he's scared of the wrist cannons lmao - yet the projectile (almost) jails and keeps you from doing anything. That's satirical as hell from my standpoint.

I'm not trying to be amidst the sea of complainers, but yeah.... bad design indeed.

The game has only been out for 2 days though guys, I'm sure that there's a way to get around the projectile

My problem is they made him every other character NRS has designed and took no risks. He could have been asthetically amazing given his kit. Complete missed oportunity. I really like the deadshot character and i hate to see him reduced to this.

 

[Shaka]

Lol, we're gettin' our asses booed at EVO for sure.

Who gives a fuck? The game is amazing, just enjoy it.

 

[armani]

Something tells me Firestorm is a very clear counterpick for Deadshot.

To get in on Pew-Pew Deadshot with Firestorm, you need meter. I have no idea why, but the hit advantage on Deadshots Pew-Pew is +21, yet Firestorm's is +1 - with both fireballs being i11

EDIT: Which indeed, is quite broke (as fuck) so if Pew-Pew Deadshot & Firestorm simultaneously started a projectile war, DS would win if Firestorm had no meter.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

People say this a lot but then admit to reacting too soon later down the road. There's no way everyone knows how the game in it's current state is going to be played a year or even six months from now. People aren't even using all the options provided.

"Too soon" = 1 character per game
"Not soon enough/we'll find ways around it" = 4/5 characters per game

People always exaggerate this, but it's usually the characters that aren't dealt with soon enough and ruin 4 months of tournaments that are the bigger issue (at least, in our games).

But with that said, it's still way too early right now. A week hasn't even gone by yet.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

I'm actually curious to hear some results so far: Who can effectively zone better than deadshot right now?

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

So has everyone managed to test all options against deadshot in the hours the game has been released before coming to the conclusion that his zoning is broken or scrubby?

100% they have not. I already have ways around most of his stuff.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Is Cold really heavy rushdown? I've only played Buffalo's Cold and he was doing weird shit behind blocks. I felt like I was playing Mario.

just WAIT until you see what his level 2 trait does to people in the corner.... literally no options man. imo the most broken thing in the game

 

[RWDY Nori]

I'm not crying for turbo nerfs, man. Nor are some others. The two things I see get mentioned the most are adding more recovery to his wrist shot and/or toning down his up close game.

Y'all are acting like everyone and their damn mother is wanting him to be Joker tier from Injustice 1.

People say it's too early to cry for nerfs, but why isn't it too early for you guys to say he's completely fair? How do you know? You don't. You're clinging onto your character because it's what you've been longing for for so long that any mention of normalizing him in any way is seen as demanding him to be gutted.

Me personally, you might be wrong or might be right. I can't speak for others, but I just want the game to breathe to see if the community can find a way around DS first. If aftera month or 2 he's dominating and something is busted, then sure nerf. I main Bane, it's not fun fighting DS just my 2 cents

 

[RWDY Nori]

just WAIT until you see what his level 2 trait does to people in the corner.... literally no options man. imo the most broken thing in the game

Do you have any vids? I believe you I'm just curious what it looks like

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I think people want a kind of zoning that doesn't really exist in the other games they admire. The issue is never if zoning is good -- the issue is if it takes thinking and skill to execute that's on par with what getting through the zoning requires.

If the answer is "yes", then it's fine.

The issue here is that people want zoning that they don't have to think about at all, that can keep the opponent at bay for free in half their matchups -- and when you change it so that they have to think about every projectile they throw out, the response is "Omg zoning is dead, there's no zoning this game".

In fact people DID stand up against braindead 50/50 launchers out of EX plus-frames in MKX, and things were changed. The first two characters I've seen people complaining about in INJ2 are Superman and Batman, who aren't even 50/50 characters or pure zoners at all.

So I agree with Bit -- people are actually speaking up about various things, and not all about zoning as implied here.

Either way, if it requires less thought to execute than it does to counteract it'll be toned down. If not, then it's fine. We'll see which is which as we go.

I agree. Its why I think fate may end up the best one because he has a tremendous amount of depth that people have not cracked yet. zod was the best zoner in inj1 but it was not obvious and took a true main to show why. With that said we need to think of tournament level of play and casuals. It is hard for casuals to get around, I agree... but even if they add 10-15 frames of recovery to all of his guns the casuals will still lose EXACTLY the same way. The only people truly affected will be tournament players. As deadshot stands right now he has some very clear counters and strategies to get in on. Another question, is it good for the overall game? not so sure. this is a complex discussion. would be a good podcast idea.

 

[RWDY Nori]

I don't think you really need to let the game play out to see how Deadshot is.
We have all played enough fighting games and NRS games to know when something is wrong, and it's not like Injustice is that deep of a game.

For some characters, fighting Deadshot is probably about as fun as getting teeth pulled.

That said, I don't think the game has much of future, Deadshot or not, so might as well leave him be.

Since the days of SF2, any game that ever came out, people had tier lists that wound up changing over time. Marvel 2 is a great example, triangle jump effectiveness wasn't discovered for years. It's not enough to observe something and say "I know 100% sure this is too good". Lab work and time is required. After a month or 2, if he's dominating or getting away with bullshit, and all the players have tried their best to get around it and the risk/reward is fucked, then nerf bat him away

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Do you have any vids? I believe you I'm just curious what it looks like

im was debating posting the set sonic fox and I played but I thought better of it. I hated when people posted my game play during casuals so I will not do the same to him

 

[RWDY Nori]

im was debating posting the set sonic fox and I played but I thought better of it. I hated when people posted my game play during casuals so I will not do the same to him

I understand that's fair. Are you able to describe the setups or what to look out for? I have yet to run into a captain cold and all I hear is how dirty he is

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

You're question is silly because I think 50/50 rush down is just as dumb but one wrong doesn't justify another..

so why does one get to stay and the other doesn't?

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I understand that's fair. Are you able to describe the setups or what to look out for? I have yet to run into a captain cold and all I hear is how dirty he is

basically he has ways to keep his turn. f21 is 0 and 122 is +4. he has a 6 frame d1 and can cancel to ex wall and get plus 5 again. he has setups to get lev 2 trait out in the corner and you cannot jump, mb roll, teleport (get throw back in), things that you could punish can no longer be punished and things that were safe are not longer safe. that is the closes thing to the famous wound cowboy quote "no options" that I have ever seen

 

[SaltShaker]

just WAIT until you see what his level 2 trait does to people in the corner.... literally no options man. imo the most broken thing in the game

^^ Been saying this since Day -2 lol. Nerf Wrist Cannon though.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Wow, nasty. Thanks for the reply gonna test this out tonight

 

[Rathalos]

Since the days of SF2, any game that ever came out, people had tier lists that wound up changing over time. Marvel 2 is a great example, triangle jump effectiveness wasn't discovered for years. It's not enough to observe something and say "I know 100% sure this is too good". Lab work and time is required. After a month or 2, if he's dominating or getting away with bullshit, and all the players have tried their best to get around it and the risk/reward is fucked, then nerf bat him away

Marvel is a sandbox of crazyness. so many open ended system mechanics and weird ass bugs allow the game to be incredibly deep and the meta will change over time as things are discovered and evolve.

Injustice on the other hand is a very shallow game.
It's really not going to change that drastically.

People can already get past Deadshots zoning with some characters, and that will get easier as they get better at the matchup.

That still won't make the matchup fun though.

And I said it's too early to nerf him, and even if they do, it would just be something else that gets everyone in a tizzy. People are never satisfied with NRS games, it's always one thing or another.

 

[GAV]

To get in on Pew-Pew Deadshot with Firestorm, you need meter. I have no idea why, but the hit advantage on Deadshots Pew-Pew is +21, yet Firestorm's is +1 - with both fireballs being i11

EDIT: Which indeed, is quite broke (as fuck) so if Pew-Pew Deadshot & Firestorm simultaneously started a projectile war, DS would win if Firestorm had no meter.

...but pew pewing is just part of it. Mobility and Trait play a big part as well. Firestorm's aerial mobility and trait may be the best this game has to offer.

 

[alkipot]

I saw Floe lab Deadshot for like 3 minutes the other day and he wrecked most of ranked lol. Funny stuff!

 

[24K]

I am not against zoning. But like somebody said (sorry dude, couldn't find your post again) if it is more work to get in than it is to zone somebody out, then that is balls. Casually I don't mind dealing with zoning. As I said somewhere else, I enjoy the challenge sometimes. But in a competitive situation with big prize money on the line, it is a worry that people will have to work to hard to get in and just default to an all Dead Shot top 8 situation. You don't win more for being swagy and grinding your way in and stopping a zoner risking loosing all the money, instead of just cheesing your way to victory.

Zoning is one thing, safe almost 100% keep away game, a little OT, not saying OP because there are options. But OT for dam sure.

Not calling for nerfs, but some characters need some buffs.

To the OP, I don't really remember the original question so my answer may be off. I don't mind dealing with zoning, or react-able 50/50s. Mindless guessing game 50/50s are another beast all together. But I do feel getting your Yomi on point and hard reading, not guessing, makes these more acceptable. Even though I would prefer the "guessing game" wasn't such a big thing. On top of that, when you are in on the opponent you feel like you are part of the game. Dealing with zoning is not an easy thing, and I feel we deserve more for getting in, and it can be fun to get around. But the cheap keep away game that is predominant in I2 is to easy for the zoner to pull off. I won't say to hard to get in on because we are all still learning our tools, but what it does do is make the person who can't get in feel like they haven't had a chance to play.

This is a hard topic to deal with because cheap zoning players, not saying all zoner players are cheap, but the ones that can't play the game any other way or wont bother learning any other characters always drop the rush down scrub blah blah blah crap, whenever somebody has something negative to say. I just call for a better balance that is all.

I enjoyed playing Sagat in SF4 and his typical game plan was to get the opponent off him and deal damage up close, but then slow the opponent down and make it hard for them to get in and get something going. Deal some damage to them while they are close and get them out again. He had the best fire ball game in SF4. But it wasn't something he could use to lock down a player.

 

[GAV]

This is relevant since both characters were mentioned in this thread - and both players are very solid.

 

[alkipot]

Street Fighter zoning is much more difficult to do and far easier to get around, I will say that much.