Community Concerns Regarding NEC '13

[TakeAChance]

And thats why Winter was seeded high as well. Ultimately there wasnt any problem anyway because the top3 seeds in each pool got byes. The seeding determines the byes. And Winter and Bluenine both got byes. You are right Bit in that seeding isnt an exact science, but cmon dude. I took both Bluenine and Winters Tourney results into account. You can make a case for them being flip flopped but ultimately they both got byes. I gave it to Bluenine because hes been to alot more tournaments then Winter. But yea dude, it could be a coin toss. I had an hour to do this bro. I had to make some judgement calls. They both got byes so they both benefited from being top seeds.

I can't say much since I wasn't there, but who the fuck is Bluenine?

Winterwarz has travelled all over the states and Canada and consistently does hella good.

 

[ForeverKing]

As much as the community doesn't want to switch to Xbox, I have not seen that system slow down the way the PS3 tends to. During my match with Curbo, we spent most of the time looking at each other wondering why we were even bothering.

I have been saying this for like a year and half now, ever since I started playing MK9 competitively.


WHY THE FUCK ARE TOURNAMENTS NOT ON XBOX???

It's obviously the better system, I have never seen it lag ever offline on xbox, I felt the lag on ps3 many of times. If you use Freddy's EX Spikes on certain stages the game will slow down for a second. All X-rays lag. Hell stage lags. On xbox the hell stage does not lag, X-rays do not lag, there is no Kratos, there is no Kratos stage, Freddy's EX spike does not ever slowdown the gameplay..... I have heard from multiple people that FPS feels much better on Xbox than it does on PS3. Pretty much everything about Xbox when it comes to MK9 is better than everything about PS3. Not to mention it is easy as shit to get a converter for ps2 and ps3 controllers on Xbox, but it is not that easy to find converters that let you play Xbox controllers on PS3. I had to get a controller modded so I could play an Xbox controller on PS3, which costs like $100. So again, let me ask:










WHY THE FUCK ARE TOURNAMENTS NOT ON XBOX???

 

[GGA soonk]

The PS3 has several issues, but it's also the tournament standard. IMO if you're going to be playing competitive MK, you should be practicing on a PS3. The situation with lag works both ways: if all PS3 players suddenly have to play on XBOX, they're going to be dropping shit left and right. There are other issues with the PS3, like the supposed 2ms USB delay, that also take time to get used to. If you're having stage lag issues, then you shouldn't be playing on the laggy stages. Stick to soul chamber, courtyard, and deadpool (or pit day, but fire effects are what really slow the game down so use at your own risk).

The issue with brackets has been brought up to Phil before, and his responses were basically:

• They don't have the staff to satisfy everyone regarding the brackets.
• The TOs have a very hard time telling 'no' to both their friends and well-known community members because they get very sensitive about each player's situations and wasting people's money (for example, if a player is 10 hours late because his flight that he paid $500 for was delayed or whatever). There was also the implication that the TOs don't have the wherewithal to deal with potential player outbursts or temper tantrums if they don't get their way.

Note that I don't speak for them at all, I'm just recapping what Phil said on stream during the whole 2/3 or 3/5 situation came up.

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. The slowdown on PS3 is random at best. Curbo and I tried 2 different stages(including Courtyard) and the game was unplayable. You can NOT prepare for random slowdown mid-combo or mid-input, it's just impossible and it's absolutely ridiculous that a tournament game is played the way we play it.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

It all stems down to this and I am going to say this as bluntly and in the most basic form that I can because I voiced this opinion about 2 months ago and got blown up...

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world...why are we catering to players that are A) Late, B) Not professional and C) Not our problem.

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world...why are we not using Asus standard monitors at all tournaments? If I see a BenQ or Phillips monitor at tournies I cringe, and just know that is where my match will be. Ask Jimmypotato about how that effected him...

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world....Why are we not using the best system for the game? We have known for some time now that MK plays BETTER on Xbox 360. If any of you PS3 players are going to bitch about the controller, suck it up because Xbox players had to adapt from Day 1. Buy a converter or dual mod your sticks, because the frame drops ARE noticeable.

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world...why have we not eliminated Bracket favourtism? I get it, seeds are needed, but no clan mate, or local region should have ANY of their players in their pools unless the turnout is too low to divide them up otherwise. Having brothers play each other in pools or training partners is just insulting and tough for all competitors.

I just don't understand why these small concessions cannot be made to legitimize the games more. This isn't entitlement, at least not from my perspective, it's just common sense.

They were all asus except the back recording station which was Benq which is my monitor and has the same exact lag as the asus. The issue was not the monitors but the splitting of the signals potentially causing lag on the stream and recording set ups.

 

[Dark_Rob]

I can't say much since I wasn't there, but who the fuck is Bluenine?

Winterwarz has travelled all over the states and Canada and consistently does hella good.

Bluenine is Alex Smith. Hes been going to MK9 tournaments since launch. In fact hes bein going to UMK3 tournaments for years. Since before even I was going to tournaments. Thats who the fuck he is.

He started placing and doing well at about the same time Winter did. They have about equal accomplishments. I gave it to Bluenine because hes been to more tournaments than Winter. WINTER WAS STILL THE TOP 3 SEED. He got a bye just like Bluenine did.

 

[TakeAChance]

They were all asus except the back recording station which was Benq which is my monitor and has the same exact lag as the asus. The issue was not the monitors but the splitting of the signals potentially causing lag on the stream and recording set ups.

Excellent. My post was towards all TO's Not NEC specifically. Glad to see this tho. Thanks for the clarification Claude .

My points I believe still stand tho. PS3 has got to go.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Personally I wish it could be on xbox to. I hate the PS3 slowdown. But its to ingrained in the FGC to use PS3 now that it will probably never happen. Not to mention your either gonna have players complaining about PS3 slowdown or lag from using converters on their PS3/2 controllers on an xbox. Either way people will be complaining. We can never make everyone happy. Especially in this community.

 

[GGA soonk]

1. This isnt an MLG event. We took other tournaments into consideration besides MLG when seeding the brackets, however MLG events were also taken into account as well. Bluenine has placed top8 in at least two east coast majors in recent history and that was why he was seeded high in his pool.

Winter Warz has recently placed top 5 at T13 and Season's Beatings as well as top 16 at MLG Raleigh. He has tournament wins over Maxter, Forever King and Tom Brady. I understand that player seeding is not an exact science but I cannot see the case being made for Blue Nine being a higher seed. It just makes no sense.

That's all there is to say on that.

2. RIU48 was not just dropped into a pool. RIU48 had made arrangements with us weeks ago to be placed into one of the last pools because he couldnt get there until late. If he got there before he had to play, great, if not we would DQ him. But that was weeks ago and I had a million things going on at the time so I forgot to add him to the pool when we were making them earlier in the day. We were behind the 8 ball on time because registrations for MK9 had been so delayed that I was focusing on getting the pools done and seeded properly and the RIU48 thing just totally slipped my mind and I didnt remember it until RIU literally drove up and I went "oh shit!" So I asked Phil if it was still ok to add him because it was my fault that I had forgotten about him in the first place and he said fine because those pools hadnt even started yet(and in fact wouldnt start until the next day, but thats a whole nother story)
So if you guys want to crucify me for forgetting to add RIU48 to the pool earlier in the day when I should have, go ahead. All I can say is I was working like a slave trying to make up for all the lost time due to registrations running behind and my mind was running at a hundred miles and hour with people breathing down my neck to get this thing going and I just forgot. It wasnt a conspiracy, it wasnt bracket rigging. I forgot to add him because of all I had going on and because the arrangement with RIU48 had been made weeks ago and just wasnt in the front of my mind.

When people register, there must be a list of some sorts. You don't just guess who registered and who didn't. If he registered, he would have been on the list. Your forgetfulness doesn't come into play on this one.

3. The MK community has this unfortunate belief that it is the only, and most important community in the world and that all tournaments should revolve around them and cater to them. That is a happy fantasy world, but by all means continue living in it if it makes you happy. There are other games that have to have registrations besides ours. I was down in the MK room at 10am Saturday morning(after having been there until 6am setting up) and I wanted to start registrations at 12pm for MK9. When I came to the registration area the first game up was Marvel teams was supposed to start registrations at 9:30am. Can someone please tell me what fuckin Marvel player gets up at 9:30am? Yea I thought not. None of them, because they are all up playing casuals until 7am in their hotel rooms. The players fuck with registrations more than anyone else. So Marvel falls behind, the games behind it fall behind and MK9 falls behind, because its a domino effect. So instead of 12pm MK registrations got pushed back to like 2:30 pm. Yea that sucks. But its totally beyond our control and there wasnt anything we could do about it.
It took us about an hour to make the pools and seed them so that brought us to 3:30 and then we had to deal with 16Bit who had issues with the brackets, that were ultimately resolved(correct Bit?) and nothing about the brackets was changed with the exception of adding RIU48 later on which I explained above.

I never said this was anybody's fault, I just said it was an issue.

Fuck you all, that is all.

This is why nobody says anything. Bring up concerns and get told to go fuck ourselves.

 

[TakeAChance]

I don't mean to jump on the negativity train, but here is a question...

TO's claim the scene is whiny...but what concessions have ever been made to tournament players?

 

[Dark_Rob]

That's all there is to say on that.

Read my post above for further clarification.

When people register, there must be a list of some sorts. You don't just guess who registered and who didn't. If he registered, he would have been on the list. Your forgetfulness doesn't come into play on this one.

He wasnt registered because he wasnt sure he would make it on time. It was an arrangement he made with Phil,Shock and I personally, not through NEC. I suppose he could have pre registered and the same thing would have occured but instead he came to us. We try to accomodate players as best we can and be as flexible as we can. His request wasnt unreasonable regardless of whether he went through "official" channels. Why are we even talking about official channels in a community tournament? its grassroots dude. For the community by the community. its not a corporate MLG affair. And yes me forgetting about him is why it happened.

I never said this was anybody's fault, I just said it was an issue.

Of course its no ones fault. But we are the ones who are gonna get shit on because of it.

This is why nobody says anything. Bring up concerns and get told to go fuck ourselves.

Bringing concerns up is one thing. Being told your a bracket rigging scumbag is another. If you want to know whats up with something ask us about it. Dont jump to conclusions and blow us up for something thats not the case.

 

[Dark_Rob]

I don't mean to jump on the negativity train, but here is a question...

TO's claim the scene is whiny...but what concessions have ever been made to tournament players?

Concessions like what? We do EVERYTHING humanly possible to make people happy. But making one person happy by helping them(RIU48) is pissing off another at the same time(16bit) You can never make everyone happy. Its impossible.

 

[BillStickers]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. The slowdown on PS3 is random at best. Curbo and I tried 2 different stages(including Courtyard) and the game was unplayable. You can NOT prepare for random slowdown mid-combo or mid-input, it's just impossible and it's absolutely ridiculous that a tournament game is played the way we play it.

I've experienced the difference between monitors, systems, and controller setups first-hand, and I've played on both systems. You should research Check's findings on stage lag along with other sources of PS3 lag if you plan to compete in tournaments.

 

[GGA soonk]

Read my post above for further clarification.


He wasnt registered because he wasnt sure he would make it on time. It was an arrangement he made with Phil,Shock and I personally, not through NEC. I suppose he could have pre registered and the same thing would have occured but instead he came to us. We try to accomodate players as best we can and be as flexible as we can. His request wasnt unreasonable regardless of whether he went through "official" channels. Why are we even talking about official channels in a community tournament? its grassroots dude. For the community by the community. its not a corporate MLG affair. And yes me forgetting about him is why it happened.


Of course its no ones fault. But we are the ones who are gonna get shit on because of it.




Bringing concerns up is one thing. Being told your a bracket rigging scumbag is another. If you want to know whats up with something ask us about it. Dont jump to conclusions and blow us up for something thats not the case.

I don't even remember if you were there for the bracket rigging conversation we all had. Nobody accused YOU of anything since YOU weren't playing in the tournament.

Pretty sure grassroots or not, there needs to be some structure. If your tournaments are going to be run with a 'make shit up as you go' mentality, I'm not so sure we want to spend money to travel to an event like that. I didn't even play Riu48, so I have no personal vendetta against him, but what about the players knocked out by him? Word at the venue was he was only coming to play casuals. Pretty sure he would have told his friends if he would be competing, but I guess maybe he forgot, too.

 

[Perfect Legend]

Wound, I know you're being sarcastic, but for the people that say that they can only play on a PS pad, you need to get a ps2 pad and etokki converters for both systems. Then you are set for wherever you go, and can use the same pad at EVO where they don't allow wireless controllers, period. (This should be the tournament standard if we must play on PS3).

ps3 converter: http://etokki.com/iNPiN-PS2-to-PS3-Converter

360 converter: http://etokki.com/Xtokki360

Dude these are the two worst converters out there I have hella lag with them whenever I try to use them.

 

[GGA soonk]

Concessions like what? We do EVERYTHING humanly possible to make people happy. But making one person happy by helping them(RIU48) is pissing off another at the same time(16bit) You can never make everyone happy. Its impossible.

Do not place the blame on 16bit. Everyone was pissed he got added.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Everything that happened at NEC except the final results of course... Has me completely down to the point where I don't feel a part of anything anymore. Shock, Rob, Phil, Summoning, etc work SO hard for all of us. You guys really have no idea. I don't know what to do or say anymore about any of this.

 

[Showtime]

If riu48 had made arrangements with you why was his name not originally on the bracket. He wasn't added till he showed up. I'm not buying that bullshit

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dark_Rob]

I don't even remember if you were there for the bracket rigging conversation we all had. Nobody accused YOU of anything since YOU weren't playing in the tournament.

Pretty sure grassroots or not, there needs to be some structure. If your tournaments are going to be run with a 'make shit up as you go' mentality, I'm not so sure we want to spend money to travel to an event like that. I didn't even play Riu48, so I have no personal vendetta against him, but what about the players knocked out by him? Word at the venue was he was only coming to play casuals. Pretty sure he would have told his friends if he would be competing, but I guess maybe he forgot, too.

I was there. I was the final word on the brackets. So any accusation of bracket rigging can ONLY be laid on me. I have no idea if RIU thought he was only coming to play casuals. Im sure he thought he got there so late that he must have been DQ'd by now and that he would only get to play casuals. Only the fact that registrations got so delayed and his pool ended up being so late(as in next day late) saved him from being DQ'd. Il say it one more time, and I say this with no malice dude. I have no problem with you or the other GGA guys personally. Im only pissed off that Im getting so much heat for a simple oversight on my part. RIU48 was always supposed to be in a later pool. I forgot to add him. My bad, my fault. But should I really be so crucified for it? Whether I added him or not the players he eliminated would still have been eliminated by him. He still showed up in time and his pool still got delayed to the next day. Nothing would have changed except his name would have been in the pool.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

GGA Soonk
your post was long over due. I have been crucified for talking about stream lag in the past to the point where I just stopped. MLG has some of the worst stream lag ever. This is not only due to the stream but also due to the fact that Ben Q monitors suck balls and have much more delay than ASUS. This is areal issue that isn't made up. Even an ASUS isn't perfect. Go play MK on a tube TV and it will feel much faster than an ASUS. The reality is, frame delay from HD on monitors slows the game down but makes it look pretty. The best you can get is ASUS that has the least amount of delay besides a tube tv, and the best quality picture. PL is a diva for other reasons but he is spot on about stream lag. It can literally make a tournament feel the same as playing online...and whats the fucking point of that?

As for schedule and such...I agree. Tournaments are very unorganized usually. It doesn't mean people dont work hard, but people dont know how to run events properly. What MLG lacks in quality monitors, it makes up for in swag and schedule. It is the most organized tournament out there. EVO is a close second.

Dark_Rob
Get off your high horse man. you owe this community an apology for your kindergarten tantrum you just posted. Who the fuck are you to talk to us like that. Take responsibility for yourself and stop covering mistakes. Some things arent in your control, but most is. Its one thing to defend something that wasnt your fault and its another to bash the entire community and say "Fuck you" to us. Your not the only person who has ran tournaments. Your not the only person who has been up for 12 hours setting things up. Some say Final Round was the most organized, well run tournament up until that point. Stream all day, good brackets, great competition, and moderately on schedule with the restraints we had (doing entire tournament in one day).

Soonk was being respectful in his first post but all you read was the negative. go get some sleep before you respond to this cause its obvious your cranky.

 

[Dark_Rob]

If riu48 had made arrangements with you why was his name not originally on the bracket. He wasn't added till he showed up. I'm not buying that bullshit

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Holy shit did you read my post??? His name wasnt added to the brackets because I forgot about him and forgot to add him. And I said, MY BAD! Did you see what I was going through this weekend? How hard I had to work and you guys are gonna blow me up for a simple oversight that I forgot???? Ok you know what you guys are right. Im a horrible, terrible bracket runner and I will never make the mistake of running pools for you guys again because Im just so fucking bad at it!

 

[Tolkeen]

Everything that happened at NEC except the final results of course... Has me completely down to the point where I don't feel a part of anything anymore. Shock, Rob, Phil, Summoning, etc work SO hard for all of us. You guys really have no idea. I don't know what to do or say anymore about any of this.

I really wish you didn't feel that way, if you weed through the "bruntness" that is Soonk, you'll see that he really is voicing some valid concerns, without saying shock, phil, rob, or summoning did anything wrong.

He's trying to say that, making an exception to add a player just because he's a top player is not fair to the hundred players that had already been seeded and starting preparing for their pool.

He's also saying that in order to prevent allegations of "rigging" (which have been happening since FR last year), that NO COMPETITOR should be helping with brackets.

He's also saying that it's not community building if whenever someone brings up a concern about a laggy stream setup, that they get told to fuck off because they aren't a top player. And when a top player DOES bring it up, they get told to stop being a fucking diva.

Whether you feel it's the "competitors" fault that you don't feel like part of a community or not, you have to understand there are 2 sides, and even though Soonk can come off as a dick, he's doing more to help correct these problems than the TO's did at the time. And if it wasn't for this thread, we wouldn't have gotten the answers from Dark Rob that the people who competed deserved.

 

[Dark_Rob]

[quote="L0rdoftheFLY", post: 609619, member: 138]

Dark_Rob
Get off your high horse man. you owe this community an apology for your kindergarten tantrum you just posted. Who the fuck are you to talk to us like that. Take responsibility for yourself and stop covering mistakes. Some things arent in your control, but most is. Its one thing to defend something that wasnt your fault and its another to bash the entire community and say "Fuck you" to us. Your not the only person who has ran tournaments. Your not the only person who has been up for 12 hours setting things up. Some say Final Round was the most organized, well run tournament up until that point. Stream all day, good brackets, great competition, and moderately on schedule with the restraints we had (doing entire tournament in one day).

Soonk was being respectful in his first post but all you read was the negative. go get some sleep before you respond to this cause its obvious your cranky.[/quote]

Im not apologizing for shit. I just got the shit kicked out of me by these guys because Im not perfect and I made a simple mistake that ANYONE could have made with all the shit I had going on. And I said MY BAD! It is my fault I forgot to add him, but Im just being crucified for it!

I will apologize for saying fuck you all though. That is me being just furious at the way Im being treated. I realize its not the whole communities fault though. So Im sorry for that.

 

[GGA soonk]

We're just wondering where pimpuigi and riu48 are, that's all.

 

[4x4lo8o]

It all stems down to this and I am going to say this as bluntly and in the most basic form that I can because I voiced this opinion about 2 months ago and got blown up...

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world...why are we catering to players that are A) Late, B) Not professional and C) Not our problem.

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world...why are we not using Asus standard monitors at all tournaments? If I see a BenQ or Phillips monitor at tournies I cringe, and just know that is where my match will be. Ask Jimmypotato about how that effected him...

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world....Why are we not using the best system for the game? We have known for some time now that MK plays BETTER on Xbox 360. If any of you PS3 players are going to bitch about the controller, suck it up because Xbox players had to adapt from Day 1. Buy a converter or dual mod your sticks, because the frame drops ARE noticeable.

If we are to play a game COMPETITIVELY, as in for money, against the best players in the world...why have we not eliminated Bracket favourtism? I get it, seeds are needed, but no clan mate, or local region should have ANY of their players in their pools unless the turnout is too low to divide them up otherwise. Having brothers play each other in pools or training partners is just insulting and tough for all competitors.

I just don't understand why these small concessions cannot be made to legitimize the games more. This isn't entitlement, at least not from my perspective, it's just common sense.

Why does playing competitively have to be synonymous with playing for money? I wasn't at NEC but I suspect most of the people there were there because they love the game, love playing each other, and like seeing who's the best and how they measure up - the prize money wasn't even a factor for most of them. The first place prize probably could have been $20 and a lot of the same people would have showed up.

I agree with most of your points, if we're competing it's best to do it in a systematic way that's most likely to actually show who's the best and provide a fair experience everyone playing - especially when people are paying hundreds of dollars to travel and compete - I just don't like the mindset that playing competitively is about the money. It's great that our top players can make money playing this game, but that's not what competing is about.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

We're just wondering where pimpuigi and riu48 are, that's all.

Rob explained that he forgot to add them a couple times in this thread. That's his reason for it not being there.